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power armour? land raiders? and if so what does the Imperium do to prevent it?

It is called tainted by chaos, and to fight is their have the AM and inquisition/Church to keep it from happen and go as far as purging world to contain it.

Well the dread is controlled by a person who cannot be hacked. You could hack the systems and hardware, but you couldnt hack the dread to controlling it.

I'm not sure you can "hack" a Dreadnaught with traditional methods, but I'm sure a talented techpriest could:

One of the reasons computers in 40k are so slow is the incredible amount of firewalls, anti-viral and ECCM present in almost every system, which has been present since the war with the Men of Iron.

It would also help if they emptied the recycle bin once in a while, and maybe ran a defragmentation routine at least once a millennium but, in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only uptime.

By the sounds of things, "machine spirits" often include organic brains or some such living parts, which would naturally be immune to hacking.

The other side of this is that humanity may simply be unable to hack anything, both because they literally can't invent the tools and because the very idea of hijacking a "spirit" may not occur to them.

The AdMech considers it a form of tech-heresy, and the Inquisition possesses tools that allow it, so they are (on both sides) aware of the practice, though they don't refer to it as "hacking".

In the HH book conquest the port maw fleet are hacked by horus mechanis forces its described that the bigger and older ships machine spirits could fight it off but the smaller ships were overwhelmed until the signal broadcasting it was cut.

that combined with anytime you read about dark mech it has scrapcode mentioned I take to be a form of virus that damages the machine spirit

They have the most secure anti-hacking technology possible: They do not have wireless access ports.

A dreadnought in primary fuction the half deaf marine and miu make a somewhat closed loop.

The organic brain cannot be hacked. The chasias is a sealed unit and its not wireless. Plus machine spirit the systems are secured quite wel.

I aslo would not doubt that land raiders etc have the powerful spirit, capable of fully autonomous operation also has a kill switch to disable systems in case of said hack. Too valaible not to be able to be shut down in case of loss of control.

Yes they can and it has been done even titans can be hacked. Just receiving a vox signal might be enough to infect them.
Read mechanic um if you like to know more.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Yes they can and it has been done even titans can be hacked.

By psykers, not by guys with laptops.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Yes they can and it has been done even titans can be hacked.

By psykers, not by guys with laptops.

You don't need psykers at all a virus signal is good enough as is a necron overlord with some nasty necron tech.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also the Obliterator virus

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They have the most secure anti-hacking technology possible: They do not have wireless access ports.

the AM in a way do have a kind of wireless. They call it the noosphere. It's just information hanging in the air and exchanged wirelessly between those who have a noosphere interface.

Jup Koriel Zeth's techno chatter, but before that they also had lots of wireless communication. Most of it was done just by vox caster or just plain sound waves.

 jhe90 wrote:
A dreadnought in primary fuction the half deaf marine and miu make a somewhat closed loop.

The organic brain cannot be hacked. The chasias is a sealed unit and its not wireless. Plus machine spirit the systems are secured quite wel.

I aslo would not doubt that land raiders etc have the powerful spirit, capable of fully autonomous operation also has a kill switch to disable systems in case of said hack. Too valaible not to be able to be shut down in case of loss of control.

It has a radio in it (the vox-caster). It is therefore not a closed system. Wireless communications (cellular, WiFi, Beam, etc) all work on radio frequencies. RF can, most certainly, transmit data packets. The thing about hacking is that, if you're good at it, the targeted system will not even know it has been hacked.

Whether or not the organic brain can be hacked remains to be seen. The MIU indicates it is possible to translate brain-wave activity into electronic commands. The reverse must also be true for an MIU to work. It stands to reason, then, that the appropriate code may be able to implant suggestions, maybe even autonomous responses, in the brain... but the brain is an extremely advanced computational system. It may be too complex to hack, even in the 41st millennium.

 Psienesis wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
A dreadnought in primary fuction the half deaf marine and miu make a somewhat closed loop.

The organic brain cannot be hacked. The chasias is a sealed unit and its not wireless. Plus machine spirit the systems are secured quite wel.

I aslo would not doubt that land raiders etc have the powerful spirit, capable of fully autonomous operation also has a kill switch to disable systems in case of said hack. Too valaible not to be able to be shut down in case of loss of control.

It has a radio in it (the vox-caster). It is therefore not a closed system. Wireless communications (cellular, WiFi, Beam, etc) all work on radio frequencies. RF can, most certainly, transmit data packets. The thing about hacking is that, if you're good at it, the targeted system will not even know it has been hacked.

Whether or not the organic brain can be hacked remains to be seen. The MIU indicates it is possible to translate brain-wave activity into electronic commands. The reverse must also be true for an MIU to work. It stands to reason, then, that the appropriate code may be able to implant suggestions, maybe even autonomous responses, in the brain... but the brain is an extremely advanced computational system. It may be too complex to hack, even in the 41st millennium.

Brain is nuro, chemicals and electrical signals. It's very complicated. Think that's why half imperial tech is semi biology as its harder to directly hack than pure tech. Plus no AI rules.

Plus there regressive state,the part biotech is all they understand works on mass..... Easier to use a brain than make a computer chip.

Necrons have shown the capability of hacking into and controlling imperial technology in the past, but their level of tech is so advanced that it's probably the equivalent of Einstein solving 2+1.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They have the most secure anti-hacking technology possible: They do not have wireless access ports.

Indeed. This is one thing that sort of frustrates me in lots of sci-fi.

Somehow all these computers all have wireless access even when there is no use for such a thing. Why would you allow your power armor's computer to have total control over its motility systems while also enabling remote access? Its not like you are able to drive the suit home if its wearer dies or something, so having the ability to control it remotely is only a weakness for your opponent to exploit.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
A dreadnought in primary fuction the half deaf marine and miu make a somewhat closed loop.

The organic brain cannot be hacked. The chasias is a sealed unit and its not wireless. Plus machine spirit the systems are secured quite wel.

I aslo would not doubt that land raiders etc have the powerful spirit, capable of fully autonomous operation also has a kill switch to disable systems in case of said hack. Too valaible not to be able to be shut down in case of loss of control.

It has a radio in it (the vox-caster). It is therefore not a closed system. Wireless communications (cellular, WiFi, Beam, etc) all work on radio frequencies. RF can, most certainly, transmit data packets. The thing about hacking is that, if you're good at it, the targeted system will not even know it has been hacked.

Whether or not the organic brain can be hacked remains to be seen. The MIU indicates it is possible to translate brain-wave activity into electronic commands. The reverse must also be true for an MIU to work. It stands to reason, then, that the appropriate code may be able to implant suggestions, maybe even autonomous responses, in the brain... but the brain is an extremely advanced computational system. It may be too complex to hack, even in the 41st millennium.

Brain is nuro, chemicals and electrical signals. It's very complicated. Think that's why half imperial tech is semi biology as its harder to directly hack than pure tech. Plus no AI rules.

Plus there regressive state,the part biotech is all they understand works on mass..... Easier to use a brain than make a computer chip.

The Imperium is not indicative of the tech-level of the rest of the setting, however.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They have the most secure anti-hacking technology possible: They do not have wireless access ports.

Indeed. This is one thing that sort of frustrates me in lots of sci-fi.

Somehow all these computers all have wireless access even when there is no use for such a thing. Why would you allow your power armor's computer to have total control over its motility systems while also enabling remote access? Its not like you are able to drive the suit home if its wearer dies or something, so having the ability to control it remotely is only a weakness for your opponent to exploit.

There is a good reason why IoM tech has all sorts of comm ports. -> They want to be able to communicate with it at least in battle. Having an army of close system soldiers who can't listen to your commands is an horrible idea.
Now imagine thousands of years of technological regression and the main communication language of the cult of Mars being a bastardisation of binary.
Just how hard would it be to do some code insertions by just using radio.

Just how hard would it be to do some code insertions by just using radio.

While I know the writers of 40k and most of the fans of the game aren't coders or radio operators...

... code insertion via radio is easy. Super, super easy. We do this today, right now, everywhere, in both the civilian and military world.

Yes, but a sensible designer would have the tactical net / radio communications as a separate, shielded system that can only interface with the pilot/inmate visually and audibly, rather than a hacking-vulnerable direct contact, which would be stupid.

Exactly.

Just because the guy in the suit can listen to the radio doesn't mean you can use that same signal to reprogram his gear.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Exactly.

Just because the guy in the suit can listen to the radio doesn't mean you can use that same signal to reprogram his gear.

This is exactly how most of mars got infected during the first hours in the schism of Mars.
Titans fell because of this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but a sensible designer would have the tactical net / radio communications as a separate, shielded system that can only interface with the pilot/inmate visually and audibly, rather than a hacking-vulnerable direct contact, which would be stupid.

The trick of IoM tech is that most pilots are half machine and or plugged into the machine with all sorts of direct brain machine connections. Ever read snow crash ? Now imagine having an implant that translates binary for you in your head.


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Lingua-technis is a hackers dream

This is 40k so rule of cool prevails. There's no answer to this. If you think it's cool it happens. If its Necron technological dominance, Mechanicus/Mechanicum tech wizardy or scrap code or even some upstart Tau shut down signal... if it's fun narratively (insert obligatory YMMV disclaimer here) then it happens.

I would think it would probably be easier to "hack" the maimed pilot in the living sarcophagus. Whether you use psykers, whispered honeyed words in his... audio receivers or Alpha Legion style condition the Astartes before he learns to enjoy the world through sensors... it just seems easier and more in line with the 40k feel.

That and dreadnoughts are pretty rare. That's not to say they're so rare as to make this a worthless tactic, or that turning a dreadnought to your side isnt an awesome asset, however it's a lot of effort. And considering the societal and cultural make up of some factions ("I'm not touching that dirty Mon Keigh tech!" "Hack the dreadnought? The Greater Good demands we just build a bigger mech suit in response") plus the potential time invested it might just be easier to solve the problem of a dreadnought stomping around the corner with more dakka.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They have the most secure anti-hacking technology possible: They do not have wireless access ports.

in Mechanicus the female tech priest hacked the bionics of an assassin that was sent to kill her. She used the noospheric link. So it has been done before. Also the scrap code was trying to hack into the titans and ended up frying one of the crew. Not sure if that system is still used but at that time it was mentioned as being on all titans, terra, and Mars.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but a sensible designer would have the tactical net / radio communications as a separate, shielded system that can only interface with the pilot/inmate visually and audibly, rather than a hacking-vulnerable direct contact, which would be stupid.

The shielding/defensive measures taken to prevent those things are additional systems or design specifications, which are, of course, present on almost everything, and what I was talking about was simple code insertion via wireless communication/OTA methods. Ignoring the presence of encryption, firewalls (both software and hardware) and so on, radio-based communication most certainly permits for transmission of data and code insertion.

Now, as part of it being "separate"? That depends on the functions of the system. If you have an IFF system, that is also going to work via radio signal, most likely. Tracking/Geo-positioning/navigational? Radio signal, or Direct LOS via satellite or orbital platform (starship or whatever). Indirect fire/linked fire via third-party observer (either drone or "human" asset)? Radio. So on and so forth with various components and systems. System A has to use System B that works through System C in order for total functionality, otherwise everything is a self-contained component and your Dreadnought (or other machine) starts looking like a porcupine with scores of various antennae sticking out all over the place.

One of the necrons characters takes control of machines, more or less at will, so yeah there is context for it in game. As for sandboxing and airgapping, we have many many examples today of people getting around those.

As for the human brain not being hackable, that's not where I'd place my bet. Take optical illusions for instance, they take advantage of exploits in our perception of the world to trick us into seeing something that isn't real. Today we can trigger seziuers, induce nausea, and alter memories with nothing but pictures on card stock. All by using loopholes we've discovered in human cognition, and with a better understanding of the brain, better illusions are possible.

Then there are also the slow hacks, Take the idea of a meme, a thought virus transmitted from person to person. Through the correct use of memes, you can make a person act against their own best interest. You need look no further than ideals like nationalism (a surprisingly modern invention) or honor for examples of how human programming can be subverted. In real life it takes time to influence people to that degree, but with space magic and near perfect understanding of the brain those kind of things might be able to be established nearly instantaneously.

everyone knows that every piece of Imperium tech uses Norton Anti virus and therefore is immune to all forms of hacking.......