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Yes this is indeed another 'please hold my hand as I get started with my 30k special snowflakes' thread, but I am late to the HH love-in and am keen not to repeat the 'buy first-regret later' mistakes of my 40k experience thus far (I'm looking at you, small mob of badly painted boyz gathering dust in a box).

So, naturally I have already been out and got two Betrayal at Calth boxed sets as they seem like a decent place to start, especially if you have a natural aversion to big tanks (as I do). I have also been lucky enough to get 4 javelin jet bike models pretty cheap to compliment this, as well as finding an old rogue trader era predator and two rhinos in the attic. Happy days.

But of course the burning question I need to answer before beginning any modeling or painting is the obvious one - which legion to pick? The kind of game I would like to play would be infantry heavy lists with a focus on shooting, but also able to hold their own up close and personal if required. My shortlist thus far is:

Dark Angles: Seem pretty balanced, jet bikes fit the fluff and aesthetic plus I already have a large DA army in 40k (although a change to something new could also be nice)
Imperial Fists: Solid all rounders and good fluff, just not that thrilled at the prospect of painting all that yellow...
Raven Guard: Again great fluff, but the infantry choices seem a bit more specialized than what I have in the Betrayal at Calth boxes (jump packs seem mandatory)
Alpha Legion: Flexibility of mutable tactics seems like a lot of fun, plus the saboteur consul sounds awesome - just not quite sold on going traitor legions yet (or their blue paint scheme)
Death Guard: Shooty focus on big infantry lists, easy paint scheme. Same issue with traitorous scum...

Any advice gladly received!

Go Dark Angels. The HH era ones are a different paint scheme to the 40k ones. Plus this is the 1st Legion, not the sulky weepy 40k space monks, but one of the most martial, powerful forces in the imperium. Pick up a couple of the DA special helmets from forgeworld to give them that space Knight look. Use BaC to make up a Plasma support squad and pick up some jet bikes. There really are no wrong answers but you seem to be suited to them and you don't see a lot of other DA lists.

Be aware you can have loyalist elements of Traitor Legions and traitor elements of Loyalist Legions.

I agree on Dark 'Angles', plus you'll have the distinction of fielding a very underused Legion, for added hipster value.

I wouldn't say the raven guard are more jump pack mandatory. They get by pretty easy with infantry because they can all infiltrate. As for their special units you probably will have to buy the dark furies but with some modeling you can make mor deythan out of the BaC box marines

Dark angels in hh have a couple of very very good rites of war.

Iron wing: meched up dark angels that have a very nasty punch at 12" +1 to wound on weapons str5 or less and salvo , rapid fire or assault, don't under estimate this, as it means even the very tough things out there fall to massed bolter fire, bs5 sqaudrons if they have the tank rule and 2 or more models, this makes executioner preds absolutely evil, as an added bonus you get to ignore the first failed dangerous terrain roll, pretty handy.

Ravenwing protocol: this is also very good, add molecular acid rounds to your jetbikes and shred any infantry short of deathguard, rr wounds on anything T5 or more in assault, the ability to fly off the table and auto come back in from outflank is also fun, Rad Grenades on all characters for 5pts is obscene, the only down side is the real world cost of such an army, as you will want at least 18 jetbikes, 6 for HQ and command squad, 12 for troops, looks beautiful though.

I chose Dark Angels before they were the hipster legion to use!

Anyways, yeah. DA are a lot of fun. They really are capable of any style of play. Want a shooty army? Heavy Bolters and Plasma Guns will smash face. Close Combat? Give everyone a sword and go to town.

Like tanks? Everyone can be BS5! Like speed? Jetbikes for everyone!

I just wish Forgeworld would get around to giving us some special units/characters...

IF/AL/DG because you have DA already and 30k DA/RG are kind of the same.

Go traitor all the way.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions - my two front runners at the beginning were Dark Angels or Alpha Legion, and this has only reinforced that feeling so far.

I am currently leaning slightly more towards the DA as I have a 40k connection with them and like the fact that the RoW capture the flavour of what is to come for the chapter. However, there is something very appealing about the way the AL rules work and follow the fluff, as well as the added bonus of having characters to use already.

Hmmm. I guess if it came down to it, I could just do both - paint as DA and play them as AL in disguise when I feel the call to go traitor?

Dark Angels look sweet on 30k:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Dark Angels look sweet on 30k:

Wow, they look cool - are they yours? If so, did you put a green wash on the black or something?

Alpha Legion lets you use the special units of any army.

Alpha Legion are also a dog to paint, or so I've been told.

 Iapedus wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Dark Angels look sweet on 30k:

Wow, they look cool - are they yours? If so, did you put a green wash on the black or something?

No they aren't mine (unfortunately!), they were in the FW Bulletin a while ago when the Dark Angels upgrades were released.

here's my 2 cents:

1) you already have an entire dark angels army, may as well switch it up
2) Alpha legion and DA seem to be the 2 most talked about armies for newer 30k players (I may be wrong, but I see a whole lot on them)
3) Remember that you can have loyalist traitors and traitorous loyalists (coughdarkangelscough).
4) DON'T fall into the trap of pride of the legion. DON'T try and play a 30k list like a 40k list (MSU seems to be consistently sub-par vs. 30k lists. especially if the MSU list is a 30k one)
5) DON'T try and cheese out a list. It's obvious when you are, and for most it still looks like 30k is about the fluff and not the cheddar (thank the emperor)

however, I will try to now sell you on Death Guard:

Have you ever looked at a marine squad and wanted them to be more durable without having to but bikes? well, 30k DG have multiple solutions for that problem! Not only do we have easy access to rad grenades, move through cover, and the fact that the fluff-accurate DG tactical squad is 21 marines (the 21st marine being an apothecary).

We one of the better beat-stick terminator units in the game (2-wound terminators with I:3 power axes that get an additional attack if your in base contact with 2 or more enemies? for only 10-points more then other terminators? YES PLEASE!) backed by one of the best defensive terminators in the game? (same cost as regular terminators for: a pretty great gun (assault 2 poison 3+ blasts or krak grenades), the only cataphractii who can over-watch (all be it with a single template) who make charging units ALWAYS count as going through dangerous terrain and having made a disorganized charge)

We can get S: 5 poison frag weaponry, stubborn, don't give a DAMN about pinning or fear checks, AND we laugh in the face of other legionaries when they try to use poison, rad, or other such things against us.

We have a primarch with unlimited 12" phosphex, who can warp 10" after moving AND STILL CHARGE, who laughs at librarians (3+ deny), forces fear checks at -1 LD, and is a cool guy, who kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything . We've got a great relic (12" diameter bubble of -1 Toughness. Pairs well with rad grenades ), access to shredding flamers (for free), and a pretty cool first captain (who is a traitorous donkey-cave, to be fair.)

So you want a shorty army that can do OK in CC...? I'd recommend Iron Warriors or Ultramarines, if you have discounted them already. Just some food for thought.

If you're not sold on the Alpha Legion paint scheme, I wouldn't go for it. It requires an airbrush.

However, there are some other alternative DA heads that I love. http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/steam-knights-heads-bits

Used them on my Fallen!

 Brennonjw wrote:

4) DON'T fall into the trap of pride of the legion. DON'T try and play a 30k list like a 40k list (MSU seems to be consistently sub-par vs. 30k lists. especially if the MSU list is a 30k one)

What's wrong with Pride of the Legion? I plan to use it with my World Eaters to take a squad of Terminators alongside a 20-man tacblob as my troops. Or is the trap just taking a bunch of 5-man Terminator units and little else?

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

4) DON'T fall into the trap of pride of the legion. DON'T try and play a 30k list like a 40k list (MSU seems to be consistently sub-par vs. 30k lists. especially if the MSU list is a 30k one)

What's wrong with Pride of the Legion? I plan to use it with my World Eaters to take a squad of Terminators alongside a 20-man tacblob as my troops. Or is the trap just taking a bunch of 5-man Terminator units and little else?

well, the basic problem is this:

1) if all of your terminators and vet. tactical squads die, you're opponent gets extra victory points.
2) you have 4 elite slots: just use 2 of them to bring some terminators, they already score anyways. If you wanted terminator troops, the primarchs chosen is a little bit better of a RoW. Remember that a 10-man terminator squad is still ~400 points, So you'll usually never use more then 2 or 3 (just by the limits of point costs, not tactics )
3) Both PotL and Primarchs chosen are incredibly limiting when it comes to allies and what tactics you'll end up using.
4) compare PotL to any number of other RoWs, and it just doesn't provide nearly as much in the form of bonuses. Look through your 2 legion specific RoWs and see what they do for you

5) you seem to want to use PotL for a better reason then most wanted to (either save money by using their 40k models (not bad), or trying to pull the minimal troops, maximal cheese approach) so it could work out, I just highly recommend you shop around first.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

4) DON'T fall into the trap of pride of the legion. DON'T try and play a 30k list like a 40k list (MSU seems to be consistently sub-par vs. 30k lists. especially if the MSU list is a 30k one)

What's wrong with Pride of the Legion? I plan to use it with my World Eaters to take a squad of Terminators alongside a 20-man tacblob as my troops. Or is the trap just taking a bunch of 5-man Terminator units and little else?

well, the basic problem is this:

1) if all of your terminators and vet. tactical squads die, you're opponent gets extra victory points.
2) you have 4 elite slots: just use 2 of them to bring some terminators, they already score anyways. If you wanted terminator troops, the primarchs chosen is a little bit better of a RoW. Remember that a 10-man terminator squad is still ~400 points, So you'll usually never use more then 2 or 3 (just by the limits of point costs, not tactics )
3) Both PotL and Primarchs chosen are incredibly limiting when it comes to allies and what tactics you'll end up using.
4) compare PotL to any number of other RoWs, and it just doesn't provide nearly as much in the form of bonuses. Look through your 2 legion specific RoWs and see what they do for you

5) you seem to want to use PotL for a better reason then most wanted to (either save money by using their 40k models (not bad), or trying to pull the minimal troops, maximal cheese approach) so it could work out, I just highly recommend you shop around first.

I originally did it so that I wouldn't have to buy another Calth box to make good use of the Berzerker Assault, since I've heard that 10-man squads are crap and I would need 3 Troops. I just looked up the second one since I don't have Book 6 and for some reason they didn't update that In the updated Legions book, and that's loads better. I can totally just make one extra 10-man and do...something with them. List would require some editing, maybe reserve it for higher points. Does Cataphractii count as Slow and Purposeful? I was planning on using a Cataphractii squad and a Red Butchers squad, but they can't run and I don't recall the explicit wording of Cataphractii rules. Probably have to cut one of them, or take their transport. I'll have to do some more research.

cataphractii basically have slow and purposefull, but they don't have the special rule. they have most of the effects spelled out, but don't call it slow and purposefull.

I managed to build an ok seeming list with everything I had before less one Land Raider, and even squeezed in a Contemptor-Mortis with Autocannons. Only issue is footslogging either my Cataphractii Terminators or my Red Butchers.

Totally hijacked this thread btw

 ChazSexington wrote:
If you're not sold on the Alpha Legion paint scheme, I wouldn't go for it. It requires an airbrush.

Hmm. Debatable. An airbrush would make things easier, sure, but that goes for practiaclly all painting in general.

Also, the beauty of Alpha Legion is that you don't have to go for their signature, "parade" colours. You could paint them up as undercover (i.e. as another Legion), or as "blank" Marines - just bare no livery or markings in order to hide their ranks, numbers, activities, etc.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
If you're not sold on the Alpha Legion paint scheme, I wouldn't go for it. It requires an airbrush.

Hmm. Debatable. An airbrush would make things easier, sure, but that goes for practiaclly all painting in general.

Also, the beauty of Alpha Legion is that you don't have to go for their signature, "parade" colours. You could paint them up as undercover (i.e. as another Legion), or as "blank" Marines - just bare no livery or markings in order to hide their ranks, numbers, activities, etc.

Additionally you could go for one of their other confirmed color schemes rather than just the Metallic Blue. Like Indigo or Azure.

KharnsRightHand wrote:Totally hijacked this thread btw

No worries, I am completely new to the 30k universe so am happy to learn of anything and everything related

Anfauglir wrote: Also, the beauty of Alpha Legion is that you don't have to go for their signature, "parade" colours. You could paint them up as undercover (i.e. as another Legion), or as "blank" Marines - just bare no livery or markings in order to hide their ranks, numbers, activities, etc.

Yeah, this is kind of what I was leaning towards before hand and now I think I am pretty set on doing it.

So I think I will be going with DA for the paint scheme, as well as playing them as DA or as AL infiltrators in the DA ranks.

Thanks for the input everyone - any tips on painting DA? I heard someone mention black with a dark green wash over the top and iron trims, anyone had any experience with that?

The Alpha Legion runs some black Legionnaires in Legion, IIRC.

I quite like the DAs done with silver highlights.

 Iapedus wrote:

KharnsRightHand wrote:Totally hijacked this thread btw

No worries, I am completely new to the 30k universe so am happy to learn of anything and everything related

Anfauglir wrote: Also, the beauty of Alpha Legion is that you don't have to go for their signature, "parade" colours. You could paint them up as undercover (i.e. as another Legion), or as "blank" Marines - just bare no livery or markings in order to hide their ranks, numbers, activities, etc.

Yeah, this is kind of what I was leaning towards before hand and now I think I am pretty set on doing it.

So I think I will be going with DA for the paint scheme, as well as playing them as DA or as AL infiltrators in the DA ranks.

Thanks for the input everyone - any tips on painting DA? I heard someone mention black with a dark green wash over the top and iron trims, anyone had any experience with that?

I've done black, with silver trim. To add a little more pop I make the DA insignia a brighter red, to stand out a bit.