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Hey guys,

I was thinking the other week that it's weird that a Missile Launcher launches one missile at a time (which makes sense), but a Missile Pods that you equip to a Dreadnought only fires one missile at a time (the weird part). This got me thinking: What sort of weapon profile would be good for a Missile Pod on a Dreadnought?

This is the preliminary profile I came up with as a result:

Frag Missile - 48" Range; S3; AP-; Heavy 3, Large Blast.
Krak Missile - 48" Range; S6; AP4; Heavy 2, Blast.
Flakk Missile - 48" Range; S7; AP4; Heavy 2, Skyfire. [Equipping this would still cost extra points]

The most important part about those profiles is the multiple hits. I feel like it being a Heavy 1 for what is a pod of missile seems weird to me, so I feel it being Heavy 2 or more is a must.

Also, I feel that, because it's firing more than one missile (hence Heavy 2 or Heavy 3), the Frag and Krak Missiles should have a blast effect. I feel like having S4 or higher as well as having an AP value of 6 or better on the Frag Missiles may be a bit overpowered. Similar reasoning was used with the stats on the Krak Missile.

What are your thoughts on this idea as a whole? What should these values be (if not what they are) and why?

Cheers Guys

Be some book keeping but give you a choice.

Say you have 12 missiles in the pod. 6krak, 6 frag
You can fire a combo of x or single type, or only a single missile etc.

You could expend all your shots early and risk later lack, be cautious risk losing shots to weapon destroyed.
Just use two coloured dice to track your ammo count. Ie d6, everyone has a spare d6

 jhe90 wrote:
Be some book keeping but give you a choice.

Say you have 12 missiles in the pod. 6krak, 6 frag
You can fire a combo of x or single type, or only a single missile etc.

You could expend all your shots early and risk later lack, be cautious risk losing shots to weapon destroyed.
Just use two coloured dice to track your ammo count. Ie d6, everyone has a spare d6

Sounds interesting, but I'd be cautious on restricting ammo. If we started with introducing an ammo count for this, where does it stop?

I also feel like being able to choose between firing two of the same type of missile or one of two different types of missile might be a bit too annoying and could get complicated in its use - hence making the attacks Heavy 2 (or Heavy 3) as opposed to the default Heavy 1 of a Missile Launcher.

 IllumiNini wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Be some book keeping but give you a choice.

Say you have 12 missiles in the pod. 6krak, 6 frag
You can fire a combo of x or single type, or only a single missile etc.

You could expend all your shots early and risk later lack, be cautious risk losing shots to weapon destroyed.
Just use two coloured dice to track your ammo count. Ie d6, everyone has a spare d6

Sounds interesting, but I'd be cautious on restricting ammo. If we started with introducing an ammo count for this, where does it stop?

I also feel like being able to choose between firing two of the same type of missile or one of two different types of missile might be a bit too annoying and could get complicated in its use - hence making the attacks Heavy 2 (or Heavy 3) as opposed to the default Heavy 1 of a Missile Launcher.

A cost limiter more I was thinking, limtied shots are cheaper, plus a idea to try to make dreadnought less shelf dwellers.
Ok, so more a choose how many you fire then. The ammo count was just to make you think before you spamfire turn one. however if you wished oner could say volley 3 frags and saturate a blob at expense of later game. I balence mechanisam without adding too many points.

We have single shot hunter killers, smart missiles and such already.

Fair call. I assume you mean Sitting way back on the board by 'Shelf Dewllers'? If so, I feel a decent way to nerf that would just to be to reduce the range to between 30" and 36". But I do see your point with the limiting of ammo and/or shots. I feel like that it may take a bit more micro-managing than it would be worth, but that's either pure speculation, laziness, or both on my part haha

I'm no expert, just a idea :-)

I removed one idea as I thought too complex. Variable load out so 2x6 missiles made of the 3 types, 1x12 Single type loadout.
Ideal in a RPG type game, not tabletop battle. If it was that, ID add various types, ranges, speeds and warheads like anti foliage and beast hunter/hellfire etc

Getting to chaos level bookkeeping. ....... Not going there with boons, powers, mutations etc etc etc.

 IllumiNini wrote:
Fair call. I assume you mean Sitting way back on the board by 'Shelf Dewllers'? If so, I feel a decent way to nerf that would just to be to reduce the range to between 30" and 36". But I do see your point with the limiting of ammo and/or shots. I feel like that it may take a bit more micro-managing than it would be worth, but that's either pure speculation, laziness, or both on my part haha

I think he means just making them viable. Shelf dweller implying it only stays on your shelf, and is never brought to the table?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:
Fair call. I assume you mean Sitting way back on the board by 'Shelf Dewllers'? If so, I feel a decent way to nerf that would just to be to reduce the range to between 30" and 36". But I do see your point with the limiting of ammo and/or shots. I feel like that it may take a bit more micro-managing than it would be worth, but that's either pure speculation, laziness, or both on my part haha

I think he means just making them viable. Shelf dweller implying it only stays on your shelf, and is never brought to the table?

Aye, like there buddy's the terminators and such who rarely see a table top game but many players own a few

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I think he means just making them viable.

Well the idea of bringing in this Missile Pod with the profile listed in my OP instead of the Dreadnought using a Missile Launcher is supposed to be what makes taking Missiles on a Dreadnought viable.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Shelf dweller implying it only stays on your shelf, and is never brought to the table?

That meaning didn't even occur to me. But yeah, the idea is to make missiles on a Dreadnought viable, hence get the Missile Pod arm off the shelf, onto your Dreadnought and the Dreadnought onto the tabletop haha.

Not picking fault or such no worry there

Id like to see some of the much shelf dwellers have a chance more often to see a game.
They have great fluff, awful rules.

I'm not sure why the Krak missiles would be any different from the Krak missiles fired from Cyclone Missile Launchers or from normal Missile Launchers. They're armour penetrating projectiles; blasts would mean that a lot of their energy isn't being used to penetrate the armour of the target at all, which makes no sense.

TBH, at risk of being boring, I think the easiest way of doing this is to just change the Missile Launcher on the Dreadnought to a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm not sure why the Krak missiles would be any different from the Krak missiles fired from Cyclone Missile Launchers or from normal Missile Launchers. They're armour penetrating projectiles; blasts would mean that a lot of their energy isn't being used to penetrate the armour of the target at all, which makes no sense.

TBH, at risk of being boring, I think the easiest way of doing this is to just change the Missile Launcher on the Dreadnought to a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

I would agree. Most Imperial tech is just repurposing the same weapon. I'd certainly find it easier to have the single Cyclone missile launcher profile to be shared than have two different profiles for two different units.

Krak missiles are stupid. They fail to penetrate armor too frequently. In reality, we have multiple stage penetrators and weapons that target the weak sides of tanks (deck armor). Krak missiles at a minimum should be AP 2, if not AP 1 or AP 0.

So dual Cyclone launchers and make flakk free.

Instead of krak having blast, on a six it reduces the armor value by one for specifically this one shooting attack, to symbolize multiple strikes on one armor facing overpowering the armor,

technically you could reduce armor value by 4 if you manages to roll four sixes.

I think the simplest solution is just to make it a TML/CML. aka Heavy 2. Toss in the flack missiles for free if you think it needs a little bit more.

Or represent the increased fire by giving it twin linked.

Or all of the above if you really want to boost them.

IMHO this game needs less special snowflake profiles. I’d rather see things tweaked within the system with simple adjustments rather then bloating the codex with new stuff.

YMMV.

Martel732 wrote:
Krak missiles are stupid. They fail to penetrate armor too frequently. In reality, we have multiple stage penetrators and weapons that target the weak sides of tanks (deck armor). Krak missiles at a minimum should be AP 2, if not AP 1 or AP 0.

I make a counter-proposal: give Krak missiles Sunder.

Maybe. It's all hollow without multiple wounds to MCs.

Martel732 wrote:
Krak missiles are stupid. They fail to penetrate armor too frequently. In reality, we have multiple stage penetrators and weapons that target the weak sides of tanks (deck armor). Krak missiles at a minimum should be AP 2, if not AP 1 or AP 0.

Krak missles should be AP 1 or 2 I agree. Maybe come stock with tank/monster hunter too. The limiting factor of a missile should ammo though. Just make all infantry missile carriers have an ammo reserve of 3. You have to chose what missiles they are carrying at the start of the game. For the dread missile pod give it a reserve of 6 and how about give it a special rule that it can fire off it's whole ammo reserve in 1 volly with a -1 BS penalty. That would be friggen awesome. You give up a str 10 CC weapon with 4 attacks for the dang thing - at least make it viable.

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe. It's all hollow without multiple wounds to MCs.

Actually, maybe that's a decent way to distinguish the missile launcher from the lascannon - missiles crack armor (Sunder, Armourbane, deals +1 hull points on a pen or something), lascannons vaporize big beasties (successful to-wound rolls cause two wounds, or something like that).

Honestly I would be OK if it was just a 2 or 3 shot standard missile launcher.

I see no reason why the weapon couldn't just be replaced with a Typhoon Launcher. I don't need my Dreads to be take-all-comers monstrosities, but I'd like them to be a bit more reliable. For me, Dreadnoughts are hampered by broader issues regarding all Walkers.

Seems like they should just get a Cyclone Launcher and leave it at that.

What about being able to fire a total of 3 missiles, with any mix of Frag, Flak and Krak?

Nomeny wrote:
Seems like they should just get a Cyclone Launcher and leave it at that.

Exactly what I've done in my rules. It follows the assault cannon precedent; weapons that are too large for anything not a Terminator can also be mounted on a Dreadnought, while the Typhoon is the one too heavy for non-vehicles.

 jhe90 wrote:
Be some book keeping but give you a choice.

Say you have 12 missiles in the pod. 6krak, 6 frag
You can fire a combo of x or single type, or only a single missile etc.

You could expend all your shots early and risk later lack, be cautious risk losing shots to weapon destroyed.
Just use two coloured dice to track your ammo count. Ie d6, everyone has a spare d6

What about Heavy D6?

Would changing it to a Skyhammer Missile Launcher be a good alternative to the regular missile launcher? 3-shot Str7 AP4 is pretty good.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would changing it to a Skyhammer Missile Launcher be a good alternative to the regular missile launcher? 3-shot Str7 AP4 is pretty good.

At that point why not take a TLAC? 2 TL’d shots rather then 3 plain ones.

The ML gives you a little flexibility (even though I personally regard frag missiles as a trap choice) But when shooting at harder targets the S8 can be nice. Particularly if you pair it with the TLLC to hunt armor.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would changing it to a Skyhammer Missile Launcher be a good alternative to the regular missile launcher? 3-shot Str7 AP4 is pretty good.

At that point why not take a TLAC? 2 TL’d shots rather then 3 plain ones.

The ML gives you a little flexibility (even though I personally regard frag missiles as a trap choice) But when shooting at harder targets the S8 can be nice. Particularly if you pair it with the TLLC to hunt armor.

The TLAC is two TL shots, the SML is 3 shots. So it would be trading accuracy for the possibility to get more hits. But I agree, making it a TML/CML is the better option.

Why aren't Krak missiles Armourbane? I mean, that IS their purpose.

Overall, since infantry can fire heavy weapons as snap shots nowadays, I think Dreadnoughts ought to get a bump in the fire rate of their weapons; giving them Heavy 2 seems totally reasonable.

Also, I originally thought this was going to be about putting Cyclone launchers on Dreadnoughts. I mean, if Terminators can carry them, why couldn't Dreadnoughts as well, and free up the arm to carry a different weapon?

 Stormonu wrote:
Why aren't Krak missiles Armourbane? I mean, that IS their purpose.

Krack missiles are more for light/medium armor. Lascannons and Melta is the answer for heavy armor. If you made Krack armor bane, you might as well just toss out all the melta weapons. They are the same S8, but pay for that extra d6 pen with point blank range.