[2000] - Daemons - Tetrad with screamer star? Anyone made this work?

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**mrhappyface**

("Is this CAD?" "God no! I never run CAD!")

*Infernal Tetrad*

Daemon prince
-Khorne
-Flight
-Skullreaver
-Lesser reward
-240pts

Daemon prince
-Tzeentch
-Flight
-3ML
-Impossible robes
-310pts

Daemon prince
-Nurgle
-Flight
-3ML
-Grotti
-315pts

Daemon prince
-Slaanesh
-Flight
-3ML
-Whip of Agony
-285pts

*ScreamerStar*

Herald of Tzeentch
-2ML
-Grimoire of True Names
-Disc
-150pts

Herald of Tzeentch
-2ML
-Paradox
-Disc
-155pts

Screamers of Tzeentch
-6 more screamers
-225pts

Kairos Fateweaver
-300pts

1980pts

Couple of points:

1) I have never used a tetrad or a screamerstar before. The tetrad because it has always been too expensive to field, the screamerstar because I didn't have the models. So baring that in mind: is this a good loadout for such a list.
2) I have a combind 17 warp charge, I am going to roll on divination for the 4++ save and telepathy for the invis (Yes. Invisibility. Calm down), anything else I should roll on?
3) Is this a sound tactic: forewarning, invis and grimoire on the screamerstar; have Fateweaver and the Tzeentch prince fly about doing magic; have the Nurgle prince fly over the screamers so that whatever they assault is at -1 toughness; and have the Khorne and Slaanesh princes on the ground raping people in combat.
4) I have 20pts left over, what should I spend it on?

**rabidguineapig**

Roll on Daemonology for Cursed Earth instead of trying to get Forewarning - Cursed Earth benefits all of your daemons within 12" as opposed to just a single unit.

Also, one of the major problems you might run into is lack of survivability with the princes. With the Tetrad I've been running Be'Lakor for guaranteed shrouding and invis, so you can just jump your khorne, nurgle, and Tzeentch princes straight up the board and jink for a 2+ cover. Without guaranteed shrouding you can only make one unit invisible (if you even roll it) and tbh it's tough to swoop around the board and do enough damage with the Tetrad. They need to get up close and beat face. I might drop the hell forged artifacts (except the robe, it's too good) and just go with greater rewards so you can get some FNP, re roll invulns, or something like that.

At 2k points you should be able to pull of the screamer star Tetrad build, you just need to make sure your princes can get into assault because you won't have enough warp charge dice to guarantee the key powers AND do enough damage while swooping.

**mrhappyface**

What about the warlord traits? I could get FnP on all the DP's and it is about the same chance as a greater reward.

**rabidguineapig**

You could get something good on the warlords table but it's still a 1/6 shot to rely on FNP from one source for a huge chunk of your army. I'd rather have the chance to get a good trait and still roll a few other times on the rewards table. Without some good buffs the princes really can go down pretty easily when they're not swooping.

**Drasius**

You're mad if you don't roll on the tzeentch table for the tetrad IMHO.

The lack of armour and gifts is a mistake as the princes need to be in assault and they are still very squishy for the points.

Drop a pair of screamers for another ML on each herald, you need more chances at cursed earth and forewarning instead of 2 more screamers.

The list is unbound, so that's already a strike against it there.

The nurgle prince with grotti is going to get you in trouble as it hands out -1 T to your guys in range too, meaning T3 screamers, T4 fateweaver and princes at T4 or T5.

Overall I don't like it, trying to do too much and sacrificing effectiveness of the tetrad to do it. Not to mention that you probably still don't have sufficient warp charge to power everything.

I'd suggest that Be'lakor and/or a drone bus would add more than Fatey & friends, especially if Fatey isn't the warlord.

**mrhappyface**

*Infernal Tetrad*

Daemon prince
-Khorne
-Flight
-2x Greater reward
-240pts

Daemon prince
-Tzeentch
-Flight
-3ML
-Impossible robes
-310pts

Daemon prince
-Nurgle
-Flight
-3ML
-Greater reward
-295pts

Daemon prince
-Slaanesh
-Flight
-3ML
-Whip of Agony
-2x Greater reward
-325pts

*ScreamerStar*

Herald of Tzeentch
-2ML
-Grimoire of True Names
-Disc
-150pts

Herald of Tzeentch
-2ML
-Paradox
-Disc
-155pts

Screamers of Tzeentch
-6 more screamers
-225pts

Kairos Fateweaver
-300pts

2000pts

Hows this instead? I gave the Khorne and Slaanesh princes 2x Greater rewards in exchange for Grotti and the skullreaver. I only gave the nurgle prince 1 reward because he already has a 2+ cover save (and I don't plan to have him on the ground) and I didn't give the Tzeentch prince any because, with cursed earth, he already has a 2++ re-rollable invulnerable save. I also kept the whip of agony on the Slaanesh prince because it is a cheap way to hold up big models like wraithknights.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drasius wrote:
You're mad if you don't roll on the tzeentch table for the tetrad IMHO.

The lack of armour and gifts is a mistake as the princes need to be in assault and they are still very squishy for the points.

Drop a pair of screamers for another ML on each herald, you need more chances at cursed earth and forewarning instead of 2 more screamers.

The list is unbound, so that's already a strike against it there.

The nurgle prince with grotti is going to get you in trouble as it hands out -1 T to your guys in range too, meaning T3 screamers, T4 fateweaver and princes at T4 or T5.

Overall I don't like it, trying to do too much and sacrificing effectiveness of the tetrad to do it. Not to mention that you probably still don't have sufficient warp charge to power everything.

I'd suggest that Be'lakor and/or a drone bus would add more than Fatey & friends, especially if Fatey isn't the warlord.

Kairos Fateweaver already knows all of the Tzeentch powers so I don't need to roll for those and the 2ML on the Heralds are in addition to their base 1ML. With my updated list above I have added in the greater rewards so I might get 3+ armour for my princes. Should I pull some points from somewhere and garantee a 3+ armour? And if so from where?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also isn't 19WC + Paradox enough to get off invisibility (3WC), cursed earth (1WC), and maybe one more power?

**Galef**

Every Prince needs 2x Greater rewards or they will die. As soon as 1 dies, the rest start taking wounds much easier. Khorne DP needs the Armour of Scorn, or will be the first Prince to eat it

Whip of Agony is for an Exalted Alluress only, you cannot have that on a DP.

Fateweaver is a bad choice for the Tetrad. While it looks like he adds WC, he actually drains it from your Princes. The Princes need powers to buff themselves, but can otherwise do stuff (like cc). FW, however, does nothing unless he is casting powers, so you have to "steal" WC from the Princes to use FW. FW also wants to be WL, which takes away one of the best things about the Tetrad.
So while you may think FW adds to the list, what you really have is 300pts taking abilities away from the Tetrad. Belakor not only helps the Tetrad, but is a fluffy addition to a mix of DPs.

**mrhappyface**

Your first two points I understand and I will try to change accordingly.
But I don't see Fateweaver as taking away from this list.
1. He adds 4WC.
2. He allows me to re-roll the Grimoire (which is a must have in the Screamerstar)
3. He gives me access to all of the Tzeentch powers.
4. Only two of the princes I plan to throw into combat: the Khorne and Slaanesh princes. The Khorne prince doesn't have any power buffs, 'cause he's Khorne, and the Slaanesh prince will only need 6 warp charge to pull of a buff (like iron arm). If I manifest invis, cursed earth and iron arm that will cost me 14-18WC, depending on how much I want to put into each, that leaves me with 1-5 +d6WC for Fateweaver to mess around with.
5. Be'lakor is good but he costs 50pts more than Fateweaver so I would either have to sacrifice points in the tetrad or the screamerstar.

**Drasius**

Paradox only works for the caster, so a Tz herald can't use it to get invis off and if you only throw 1 dice at ce to maximise casting dice, it's going to get denied very often.

The khorne prince as listed is a waste and will get punked round 1 virtually every game.

The slaaneshi prince doesn't have armour which is a requirement for cc.

You're still only ml2 on the tzeentch heralds where you really need ML3 to have a good chance at nabbing CE.

I don't know how often you play against psychic heavy armies, but when your opponents have 10-25 dice to throw, not only do witchfires become even more useless, but you need to throw far more dice at every important spell to increase the odds of it going through without being denied.

I also think that you're putting far too much faith in a single casting of Invis, especially with so few models on the table.

Never forget, troops are wounding princes and fateweaver on 3's or 4's with a volume of fire that means a 2+ save is insufficient. Stuff like missile broadsides exist, that can easily take down fateweaver or a prince in a single round with a bit of marker support.

**mrhappyface**

1. Where does it say it is only the bearer's casting gets to use the paradox? I'm not accusing you, I would just like to clarify.
2. How do you prevent the Khorne prince from getting killed? Even with armour of scorn he still gets killed.
3. Which is more important: armour or a greater reward?
4. As I said before that is just the 2ML I gave them, they have 1ML base.
5. The people I am planning to go against have little to no psychic levels, the highest being about 9ML.
6. From personal experience I have found it very easy to pull off invis, even with just Be'lakor casting it (i.e. just 3+d6WC.
7. How many Str6-7 weapons can troops take? Also bare in mind it is Orks and IG who I am up against.

**Drasius**

Paradox only works for the caster, so a Tz herald can't use it to get invis off and if you only throw 1 dice at ce to maximise casting dice, it's going to get denied very often.

The khorne prince as listed is a waste and will get punked round 1 virtually every game.

The slaaneshi prince doesn't have armour which is a requirement for cc.

You're still only ml2 on the tzeentch heralds where you really need ML3 to have a good chance at nabbing CE.

I don't know how often you play against psychic heavy armies, but when your opponents have 10-25 dice to throw, not only do witchfires become even more useless, but you need to throw far more dice at every important spell to increase the odds of it going through without being denied.

I also think that you're putting far too much faith in a single casting of Invis, especially with so few models on the table.

Never forget, troops are wounding princes and fateweaver on 3's or 4's with a volume of fire that means a 2+ save is insufficient. Stuff like missile broadsides exist, that can easily take down fateweaver or a prince in a single round with a bit of marker support.

**mrhappyface**

Were you meant to type something different?

**Galef**

I think he meant to type something different.

MrHappyFace, the basic idea we are all trying to convey is that it seems you are trying to fit too many units in the list. The experience most of us have with DPs is that you must spend points on them to make them work. So if you want to field the Tetrad, spend points on the Tetrad first, then see what else you can buy. All DPs should have Flight, ML3 (except Khorne of course) and 2x Greater (armour is debatable, but generally also considered mandatory). This is all standard for most lists including any number of DPs and is very well tested.

I think you could have a Tetrad & Screamerstar in the same list, or Tetrad & FW, or Tetrad & Belakor, but unfortunately Tetrad + Screamerstar & FW is just spreading yourself too thin.
If you want FMCs + FW + Screamerstar, you are actually better off fielding a CAD with FW, Tz heralds, 3 Tz DPs, Screamers & Pink Horrors.

--

**labmouse42**

Galef wrote:
MrHappyFace, the basic idea we are all trying to convey is that it seems you are trying to fit too many units in the list. The experience most of us have with DPs is that you must spend points on them to make them work. So if you want to field the Tetrad, spend points on the Tetrad first, then see what else you can buy. All DPs should have Flight, ML3 (except Khorne of course) and 2x Greater (armour is debatable, but generally also considered mandatory). This is all standard for most lists including any number of DPs and is very well tested.

This. Your Tetrad should run you between 1250-1310 points. In a 2000 point list, this gives you ~700 points to play with.

Adding in fateweaver leaves only 400 points for troops and the screamerstar, which is really tight on points.