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I think I might be missing something.

Absolutely everything I read says that the gore pack is an auto include. That it's the best formation in the game. That it's ridiculous levels of good. I just don't get it.

Every time I've seen it played it has done a grand total of nothing but die. At best the scout hounds have allowed an IC to almost guarantee a charge on turn two. That's about it. I've never seen it do anymore. Perhaps dakka can help me understand it? Because currently my impression of it is it's pretty garbage.

Kind of the same feelings here. Maybe it is my Meta or my dice, but the Khornedogs die to the two rounds of fire after they scout and the bikes fall over like they are standing still.

I understand it has potential, I know the rules favor the formation on paper, but on the field they just seem to fold.

Move through Cover Bikers is always a great thing to have, and scout helps in the Maelstrom setting. Also, the Khorne mark doesent mind of you jinked previous turn.

Plus I've seen some great maneuvering of bikes and dogs making a wall/bridge to manipulate enemy movements.

It's not exactly the greatest formation in the game, it's just the greatest formation CSM have (technically it's KDK but hey, CSM need all the bones thrown at them).

The main perk of the formation is that it's cheap. Very much so. The two units are support units that usually fight for a slot in their respective armies; fleshhounds are escorts for fast HQs while meltabikers are suicide tankhunters.

They problem I see people do is run only 2x 5 Hounds. This is usually a CSM player, not a Daemon player. Most Daemon players agree that Hounds are one of the best units in the Codex, and making them Fearless is even better.

CSM players just want to use min-sized units, while Daemon players know that bigger units are needed to be effective. Really, 10 Fleshhounds is the "true" minimum unit size if fielding 2+ units, 16+ is the minimum if you are only fielding 1 unit (not advised).

The GorePack should look like this (minimum):
2x 3 Bikes with Meltas, as many Meltas as possible.
2x 10 FleshHounds

Or, 4x 8 FleshHounds cuz if you have more units, it's ok to lower the minimum squad size a bit.

I also have found Gorepack to be underwhelming, at best. I think it's more my local meta than anything, but they just don't do enough when it could be traded for, say, another Forgefiend.

 Galef wrote:
They problem I see people do is run only 2x 5 Hounds. This is usually a CSM player, not a Daemon player. Most Daemon players agree that Hounds are one of the best units in the Codex, and making them Fearless is even better.

CSM players just want to use min-sized units, while Daemon players know that bigger units are needed to be effective. Really, 10 Fleshhounds is the "true" minimum unit size if fielding 2+ units, 16+ is the minimum if you are only fielding 1 unit (not advised).

The GorePack should look like this (minimum):
2x 3 Bikes with Meltas, as many Meltas as possible.
2x 10 FleshHounds

Or, 4x 8 FleshHounds cuz if you have more units, it's ok to lower the minimum squad size a bit.

This. Your fleshounds can be doubled out in strength, but this formation is so cheap that you can also spam things that would normally be afraid of S8+ shooting too... things like Maulerfiends, Heldrakes, Soul Grinders, etc. It causes target saturation, and forces your opponent to choose whether he is going to waste his s8+ shooting on a few dogs, or on taking down your big gribblies. This lets the dogs run around in Malestrom, taking necessary objectives, or it lets your bigger heavies stay alive longer and do more work.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
They problem I see people do is run only 2x 5 Hounds. This is usually a CSM player, not a Daemon player. Most Daemon players agree that Hounds are one of the best units in the Codex, and making them Fearless is even better.

CSM players just want to use min-sized units, while Daemon players know that bigger units are needed to be effective. Really, 10 Fleshhounds is the "true" minimum unit size if fielding 2+ units, 16+ is the minimum if you are only fielding 1 unit (not advised).

The GorePack should look like this (minimum):
2x 3 Bikes with Meltas, as many Meltas as possible.
2x 10 FleshHounds

Or, 4x 8 FleshHounds cuz if you have more units, it's ok to lower the minimum squad size a bit.

This. Your fleshounds can be doubled out in strength, but this formation is so cheap that you can also spam things that would normally be afraid of S8+ shooting too... things like Maulerfiends, Heldrakes, Soul Grinders, etc. It causes target saturation, and forces your opponent to choose whether he is going to waste his s8+ shooting on a few dogs, or on taking down your big gribblies. This lets the dogs run around in Malestrom, taking necessary objectives, or it lets your bigger heavies stay alive longer and do more work.

See I find quite the opposite. In my experience so far, the S8+ shooting still hits the big heavies, and the dogs and bikes fall over to a light breeze.

I have been playing FleshHounds in a Daemon list since the Codex came out. I always run at least 16 Hounds, whether in 1 unit, or 2x 8+(usually 2x 12).

You can't just Scout them straight at the enemy. If that is what you want to do with them, I suggest running 4x 5 and expect most to die. Otherwise, you must run them up a flank, or scout into LoS blocking terrain.
Always attempt to have Night Fight in play turn 1, scout into Ruins and you have a 3+ cover. This makes them a harder target and may tempt your opponent not to shoot at them yet.

Just like the Aspect Host with all Warp Spiders, the Gore Pack looks good on paper, but is only ok on the table top without proper tactics. Once you start adding in terrain and other tricks, the GorePack becomes pretty good, while the aforementioned Aspect Host becomes bonkers good.

--

It is one of the best formations because there's NO tax units. You like these units a lot as a CSM player, and this just gives decent benefits for using them. Free HoW (for Hounds) and MTC (for Bikers)? PE Psykers?

I simply don't understand any non-appeal for it.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

See I find quite the opposite. In my experience so far, the S8+ shooting still hits the big heavies, and the dogs and bikes fall over to a light breeze.

Dogs are also very cheap so its not a big drawback (especially since it gives you blood tithe)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It is one of the best formations because there's NO tax units. You like these units a lot as a CSM player, and this just gives decent benefits for using them. Free HoW (for Hounds) and MTC (for Bikers)? PE Psykers?

I simply don't understand any non-appeal for it.

Don't forget Shred on those Bike HoW attacks, and PE: Psykers.

when you can play 40 dogs for any opponent could be a problem, msu are good at maelstrom and you win most missions with objectives not just killing units, so yes hounds/bikes could be "weak" but they control board fine and score obj/maelstrom points. Last time i played KDK i had 4x8 hounds if they die they give blood thite, if not they hit hard, same for bikes they can die after kill 1-2 veichles or charge and deal a decent amount of hits with hammer of wrath+shred, if opponent must use 200pts of unit to kill 80pts of hounds well.... i will be happy with it.

Just make 1 big unit of 15-20 hounds, get a vehicle (ideally a Chaos Knight) with the IA:13 Legacy of Ruin for Armageddon), take daemon allies with a Grimoire. Put the vehicle near or inside the Hounds, cast grimoire. 2++ for the whole unit. Then add a CD Khorne Herald on juggernaught with the Crown for +1 attack on everything (including the Knight or other daemonic vehicles), and another KDK herald or Chaos Lord on juggernaught with your favorite weapon. Keep Maulerfiends nearby for the boost to invul save and attacks. With scout, that deathstar should roll over everything if you back it up with anti-armor stuff like maulerfiends.

 Virules wrote:
Just make 1 big unit of 15-20 hounds, get a vehicle (ideally a Chaos Knight) with the IA:13 Legacy of Ruin for Armageddon), take daemon allies with a Grimoire. Put the vehicle near or inside the Hounds, cast grimoire. 2++ for the whole unit. Then add a CD Khorne Herald on juggernaught with the Crown for +1 attack on everything (including the Knight or other daemonic vehicles), and another KDK herald or Chaos Lord on juggernaught with your favorite weapon. Keep Maulerfiends nearby for the boost to invul save and attacks. With scout, that deathstar should roll over everything if you back it up with anti-armor stuff like maulerfiends.

CD Khorne Heralds cannot join KDK units and vise-versa. Daemonic Instability prevents units from joining or being joined by other units without Instability (like all KDK units). Otherwise you have a good plan there.

The GorePack has so many viable ways to play it that it is a good choice fore any CSM or KDK list. Heck, I play Daemons and I have been tempted to play the GorePack to free up some FA slots.

I'm still not sold on it. I've heard nothing on here that inspires me to ever attempt to field one......it just sounds boring.

you need to try them, large numbers of hounds cant be ignored, they dont die so easily if you offer multiple targets, second turn you always charge something at maelstrom they are good, i play hounds in both KDK and CD and they always made what they expect from them.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm still not sold on it. I've heard nothing on here that inspires me to ever attempt to field one......it just sounds boring.

Then don't. If you aren't feeling a unit for whatever reason (aesthetics, rules, etc) then just don't take it. Just understand that by not taking it, you are not going to be as competitive in a competitive meta. In your local scene, it might do just fine though. So try them out or don't.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm still not sold on it. I've heard nothing on here that inspires me to ever attempt to field one......it just sounds boring.

Then don't. If you aren't feeling a unit for whatever reason (aesthetics, rules, etc) then just don't take it. Just understand that by not taking it, you are not going to be as competitive in a competitive meta. In your local scene, it might do just fine though. So try them out or don't.

Do you honestly genuinely believe it makes KDK that much more competitive? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's honest curiousity. I get that it's not a bad formation, and that strictly there's no negatives to it. But does it really affect the competitiveness of a list THAT much??

yes it make KDK competitive as i said try 40 1 thirtser and 1 lord hounds and you will see

I love it, but that is because of the massive amount of wounds on the table, at low point cost. It's not dangerous per say. compared to many others, but you do have a few advantages with it:

- With hounds being fearless in KDK, they're drastically better, as you can swarm your opponent with 12'' moving, 2W models with a 5++ save that is fearless. You can lock down anything, bar GC/SHW, for at least a round or two and it will hardly cost you anything.

- They charge at STR 5, so any vehicle, except for walkers, are in trouble.

- They scout and move 12''. Your opponent basically has to kill them to not have them in his face, locking down units and/or killing stuff in round 2.

- They are excellent woundpools for your juggerlords of death, if it pleases you.

What they do, and do very very well, is pressure. For an army that is footslogging and hardly have any worthwhile shooting, they can keep your backline alive by taking the focus off the rest of your army for the first turn or two. I usually bring 25-30 hounds in my games, as that is 50-60 T4 wounds with a 5++ save to get through. Even the Gladius has troubles getting through that many wounds and not getting at least some of them in their faces.

Use turn one wisely with ruins and placement. Use the dogs as bulletsponges and pressure the opponent. That will make it a great formation.

most times i play 1x10 hounds to hide the juggelord plus 4x8 more hounds.or i opt for mone msu like style and play just 5 houds each unit

KDK and CSM need fast and assaulty stuff. Gorepack is fast and assaulty with no drawbacks.

I use this formation for the aforementioned tank-busting bikers, and a nice big squad (usually 10) hounds as wounds for my lord on a Juggernaut. If they do scout, you're still stuck in combat with decent CC units, and even if I don't charge you 'till turn 2, you'd still have to chew for 20 wounds with 5++ to get to the big threat

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm still not sold on it. I've heard nothing on here that inspires me to ever attempt to field one......it just sounds boring.

Then don't. If you aren't feeling a unit for whatever reason (aesthetics, rules, etc) then just don't take it. Just understand that by not taking it, you are not going to be as competitive in a competitive meta. In your local scene, it might do just fine though. So try them out or don't.

Do you honestly genuinely believe it makes KDK that much more competitive? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's honest curiousity. I get that it's not a bad formation, and that strictly there's no negatives to it. But does it really affect the competitiveness of a list THAT much??

Put it this way - what else are you going to spend your points on in the KDK codex that is better? Flesh Hounds and Bikers are two of the best units in the book, and the Gorepack is a formation that lets you take them with no restrictions, along with some neat extra rules. They're fast, reasonably resilient (particularly so if you get the FNP Blood Tithe off), have alot of attacks when they charge and are good escorts for the Juggerlord which is solid HQ choice in its own right.

I love this formation, I take it almost every game when I play KDK, 4 units that I normally take anyways that are given bonus rules? YES PLEASE!

I like the Dogs and Bike b.c they are fast and survivable, the Bikes have Melta guns to AT.

The nicest thing about Gorepack is the MSU portion of it as stated above. Nothing makes a game harder for your opponents than having to force him to make a tactical decision of either removing you from an objective so you dont score points, or shooting the models running at his front line.

Ofc this doesn't mean it always works since some armies like Tau you never want to charge anyways, and things like split fire is everywhere along with Ignores Cover, but thats why we also have the Bikers, who can come in base squad sizes of 3 and 2 of them can equip Plasma or Melta with the champ taking a Combi wep of his choosing. Which adds more fear to any vehicles or MCs and might saturate fire towards them as they can kill high cost models.

All in all, the Gorepack is basically, abuse MSU as much as you can and hold the board away from your opponent IF you can. Like I said before there are plenty of problems in todays meta what with Tau just flat out ignoring half the rules of the game and Eldar just being under costed all around, but KDK can be fun and effective to some extent with the help of the Gorepack

 GoliothOnline wrote:
The nicest thing about Gorepack is the MSU portion of it as stated above. Nothing makes a game harder for your opponents than having to force him to make a tactical decision of either removing you from an objective so you dont score points, or shooting the models running at his front line.

Ofc this doesn't mean it always works since some armies like Tau you never want to charge anyways, and things like split fire is everywhere along with Ignores Cover, but thats why we also have the Bikers, who can come in base squad sizes of 3 and 2 of them can equip Plasma or Melta with the champ taking a Combi wep of his choosing. Which adds more fear to any vehicles or MCs and might saturate fire towards them as they can kill high cost models.

All in all, the Gorepack is basically, abuse MSU as much as you can and hold the board away from your opponent IF you can. Like I said before there are plenty of problems in todays meta what with Tau just flat out ignoring half the rules of the game and Eldar just being under costed all around, but KDK can be fun and effective to some extent with the help of the Gorepack

Put its more than that, its a more survival MSU, Bikes are 3+ and can Jink, Hounds are 2 wounds with 5++ always and can get FnP on a Toughness 4 model, with all of them 12" movement, its just an amazing formation.

First game I played with a Gorepack, they survived the game pretty well. As mentioned before I stacked meltas on the bikes and with busting rhinos I got the domination objective. I also love all those Hammer of Wrath hits you get, plus shred for the bikes. It's fun and good.

Gorepack also offers RELIABLE ranged AT outside Termicide. Pack a bunch of Plasma and Melta and you're good to go.