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So I thought that since I almost entirely redid this list from the first time I posted, that it should go into a new thread. This is a Dawnblade Contingent designed to be contrary to what Tau are (Or were when I last played back in the day.) Pretty up in your face, skirting the thin line between weapons range and assault range. I'm trying to figure out how to get more precision with my Low Alt Drop but I can't really find anything that keeps the list relatively the same. Either I lose virtually all of my markerlight generation, or I have to super telegraph where I am going to drop my army (With stealth teams, or the pathfinder teams from a ranged support)

Any advice about what kind of lists this might have trouble with and potential counters, or will this list even work at all? I tried to take the theme from the Farsight books to heart with this, and I think I made something at least kind of decent.

Retaliation Cadre

Commander (ToAM, Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Early Warning Override)

Broadsides (2x railsides, 2x TL Plasma, 2x Velocity Trackers, Bonding Knives)

Riptide (IA, TL Plasma, SI, Bonding Knife)

XV8 Teams (3 units of 3, Bonding Knives)
2x CIB
2x Fusion Blaster, Target Lock
CIB, Fusion Blaster, Target Lock
Total 1055

Drone Net
4x units of 5 Markerlight drones
Total: 280

Rapid Insertion Force
Stealth Team (3x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster with Target Lock, Bonding Knives)

Riptide (IA, TL Plasma, SI, Bonding Knife)

Crisis Teams (3x 1 suit, Bonding Knives)
2x CIB
2x CIB
2x Fusion Blaster
Total: 514

Grand Total: 1849

Personally I rather hate the full suite lists that have become so rampant in the tau community . why? because the things they can be kitted to kill often kill them back at a much faster and higher rate, that mixed with the fact that losing 1 man forces LD checks and drastically reduces their overall effectiveness .

All that being said i think your list is rather well rounded, good amount of AP3 and blasts as well as some melta. The RpT and your rail sides are your only ranged tank killers and will not be effective vs a knight or AV14 so your going to struggle vs Guard and SM lists, but your suite squads can help with that. Remember that any st8 blasts will straight out kill your suite squads no saves and insta killing them. In 1850 lists basically every one will be taking a vindicator/LRuss/Flyer that has a st8+ blast. Nids, although not really big in the current meta, with a good amount of MC spam and spawning can weather 2+ rounds of your shooting and shred you in CC, a Fex gets d3 hammer of wrath at st9 and bam you lost 2 suites before he even swings at you. Their gaunt swarms and stealer rushes shouldn't give you much of a problem but then again they can make it very very hard to focus fire on what matters because they move so fast/ start so close. All my "meh" saying aside you should look into taking 2xMP on a suite squad, 12 st7 ap4 shots can ripe apart smaller AV/T6 units allowing your squads of suites to target the fast movers and units out in the open with their blasts. I always say this but, look into a 12-15 man kroot squad with snipers and dogs. Infiltrating snipers with 15 i5 attacks can be quite the thorn in any ones side, especially when you force saves on special weps, dudes with better saves, and or IDC's hoping for that rend to just remove them altogether . A bonus side note is that the kroot pack 2A with their wep counting as 2CC's and at I4 they can actually take on a SM squad and do well (better when you have dogs to go at i5)

I will now get off my soap box and step back

Nice list. I especially like the cib/fusion combo. I'd be tempted to just give that to everyone. It's a real solid set.

As for the broadsides, I love rails, but they are for long range and capitalizing on first turn. The ret cad 88's will be dropping into that medium range most likely, and might benefit from missiles. You have a lot of av14 with the fusions. But I understand if you love rails, because I love rails.

Also, it's my understanding that you must have something on the table at the end of YOUR player turn or you lose. In this case, if you're planning a drop list you have to plan for something to be on the table and survive if you have to go second. In this case it would have to be at least the stealth team. What were your plans for that?

Technically you're 1 point over since Riptides can be units and therefore require bkr IIRC.

Also, to the above poster, no, it's game turn that you check if you have any models on the board, not player turn.

 Drasius wrote:
Technically you're 1 point over since Riptides can be units and therefore require bkr IIRC.

Also, to the above poster, no, it's game turn that you check if you have any models on the board, not player turn.

Ahh, thank you for the clarification, That's even worse, and something that needs to be planned for.

death_scythe wrote:Personally I rather hate the full suite lists that have become so rampant in the tau community . why? because the things they can be kitted to kill often kill them back at a much faster and higher rate, that mixed with the fact that losing 1 man forces LD checks and drastically reduces their overall effectiveness .

All that being said i think your list is rather well rounded, good amount of AP3 and blasts as well as some melta. The RpT and your rail sides are your only ranged tank killers and will not be effective vs a knight or AV14 so your going to struggle vs Guard and SM lists, but your suite squads can help with that. Remember that any st8 blasts will straight out kill your suite squads no saves and insta killing them. In 1850 lists basically every one will be taking a vindicator/LRuss/Flyer that has a st8+ blast. Nids, although not really big in the current meta, with a good amount of MC spam and spawning can weather 2+ rounds of your shooting and shred you in CC, a Fex gets d3 hammer of wrath at st9 and bam you lost 2 suites before he even swings at you. Their gaunt swarms and stealer rushes shouldn't give you much of a problem but then again they can make it very very hard to focus fire on what matters because they move so fast/ start so close. All my "meh" saying aside you should look into taking 2xMP on a suite squad, 12 st7 ap4 shots can ripe apart smaller AV/T6 units allowing your squads of suites to target the fast movers and units out in the open with their blasts. I always say this but, look into a 12-15 man kroot squad with snipers and dogs. Infiltrating snipers with 15 i5 attacks can be quite the thorn in any ones side, especially when you force saves on special weps, dudes with better saves, and or IDC's hoping for that rend to just remove them altogether . A bonus side note is that the kroot pack 2A with their wep counting as 2CC's and at I4 they can actually take on a SM squad and do well (better when you have dogs to go at i5)

I will now get off my soap box and step back

Yeah but in a dawnblade contingent how am I going to get a kroot without adding like an allied advance cadre? That's a large point sink that I'll have to take just for a squad of kroot.

For the mobility everyone in the army is jump infantry except for the broadsides, so I don't imagine running / kiting units like that is going to be much of a problem being as how every assault phase I can essentially run. I don't think a fex is going to be able to keep up with the jump infantry unless they get really lucky on their assault roll.

I already have a good amount of S7AP4 with all of the CIBs, granted it isn't at a great range, but that's what this list is supposed to do. Stay relatively close up. I realize it's pretty dangerous, and I have only play tested a small version of the Ret Cadre, but it worked well vs Wolves and DA of the same point value. I also feel like if I have to concentrate an entire 3 suit squad on a light vehicle either I am getting bad rolls or I have bigger problems and I need to do something with the list in general.
I didn't really realize that all suit lists were so prevalent in Tau nowadays.. I had just picked up a codex and thought it would be neat to try. I sorta feel bad now for doing what everyone else is doing lol

spacelord321 wrote:Nice list. I especially like the cib/fusion combo. I'd be tempted to just give that to everyone. It's a real solid set.

As for the broadsides, I love rails, but they are for long range and capitalizing on first turn. The ret cad 88's will be dropping into that medium range most likely, and might benefit from missiles. You have a lot of av14 with the fusions. But I understand if you love rails, because I love rails.

Also, it's my understanding that you must have something on the table at the end of YOUR player turn or you lose. In this case, if you're planning a drop list you have to plan for something to be on the table and survive if you have to go second. In this case it would have to be at least the stealth team. What were your plans for that?

Well I do like railsides, but the real reason I picked those over something else is because I am using them for skyfire, and I don't have a lot of >8 str weaponry so I was trying to get as much as I could. They're mostly for flyers, since a str 8 ap1 TL has a pretty decent chance at blowing up a lot of flyers. I didn't feel as confident in the S7 of the missile pods, even though they get more shots. I'll have to do some math to figure out what's technically better, but personally I like railguns.

Alright so I did some maths. I used Storm Ravens because they are the hardest air target I can think of. I am calculating for both broadsides shooting at the same target
HYMD: 8*.75=6 hits per turn, 6*.33=1.98 glances per turn, or 6*.13=0.78 pens per turn... Penetrating hits: 0.78*.13=10% chance for immobilization
Rail: 2*.75=1.5 hits per turn, 1.5*0.5=0.75 glances per turn, or 1.5*0.33=0.495 pens per turn... Penetrating hits: 0.495*0.33=16% chance for explosion, 24.7% chance of immobilization (At least)
I think I defeated my own opinion when I did the math... While the HYMP has a lot better chance of damaging every turn, the hits from the rail weapons are more likely to kill it outright.. I might have to use missile pods on the broadsides.

I was planning on dropping in and popping the big stuff with the drop zone clear + markerlight drones from the net on the turn they come in with excessive application of melta. For lighter vehicles the CIBs will suffice.. I think.
For not being tabled, I have the stealth suits infiltrating and the drone net on the field turn one. I feel like that's enough to not die in 1 turn... Question mark?

Drasius wrote:Technically you're 1 point over since Riptides can be units and therefore require bkr IIRC.

Also, to the above poster, no, it's game turn that you check if you have any models on the board, not player turn.

Sorry about that, I do have bonding knives on the riptides, I just forgot to put it I think.

trust me when i say i know exactly how the retaliation cad/Rapid cad play and also how fast a suite squad can be with their JsJ being so powerful in this new dex. My point is that this lists starts to really lack when they begin to take wounds (suite squads only have 6 wounds and a 3+ save), be that from bad rolls or just because you will always take fire from the ranges you need to get into to have the most effective fire. Granted this list will be good to great vs 60% of things that people bring in my gaming group (1 CSM, 2 SM, 1 Nids, 1 IG and 1 Ork).

Id just love to see you have more of a presence on the table T1-2 then only like 4-8 models/squads taking all the fire till you bring in your Rapid and retaliation cadre's. My only real recommendation would be to drop both your Rapid insertion cad and Drone net for a Hunter cad, Buff mander, fireblade (marker drones) Fire warrior teams and here is where you can add in the kroot, stealth team and your suite squads and a path finder teams to fill in your Markers and drones for more markers lastly either a single broadside with HYMP or maybe a Ion head for the AP3 (if you could fit it) . Im betting you could fit all that into the 800 ish points youd have free, adding in a little more flavor and a bunch more usefull rules like "ambushes and feints" for better movement and the larger supporting fire as well as unlocking the Command benefits for all your army.

As i said tho, your list is good and will be effective 60-70% of the time all the time, but one turn of bad rolls and your list can lose a large punch and put you on the back foot fast. Its happened to me and that's basically why i don't enjoy playing or like seeing full suit lists. That and the fact that the command benefits and Hunter cad are extreamly powerful!

So I re-read the RIF rule, and it doesn't say that it comes in automatically. This can pose a rather large problem, as I had planned on them coming in prior to the Ret cadre. How does that work? Do I have to roll for all of the units separately from the RIF? Or do I roll just once for the formation?

Also I'd like to try out that idea but I'd have to be regular formation detatchments instead of a dawn blade contingent, because a hunter cadre is also a core choice for my thing. I'd have to totally redo it, instead of the ret cadre I'd have to run a beefed up RIF. I guess it's possible, I will cook something up and post it in here to see what you think about it after.

I realize that my list might be a little bit unforgiving. I totally agree that if I have a turn of bad rolls, or if my LAD does not go as planned I will be totally screwed for the rest of the game. Also now that I see I will potentially have a belated arrival of my RIF I'm not entirely sure that's even the right choice for what I want in the army. I need clarification before I make a decision though.

Alright so after having done a little bit of tinkering, how would replacing both the drone net and RIF with a Ranged Support cadre do? It could hold the table + do the markerlights and potentially homing beacons / ranged S8 weapons.
3x 10 pathfinders /w recon drone
3x 1 railside /w velocity trackers

That frees up enough points to also put another riptide into the riptide unit in the ret cadre kitted the same as the first but takes away the two velocity trackers on the HYMP broadsides in the ret cadre, because I have AA from the railsides.

--OR--

Take out the RIF but keep the drone net with 17 drones and put in a Firebase Support Cadre

1x iontide /w SI
2x railsides

This still allows for two riptides in the ret cadre. More table holding units also.