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Dozens dead in worst Nagorno-Karabakh violence for decades

Dozens of people have been killed in clashes between Azerbaijan and Armenia in the disputed Caucasus region of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Armenia said 18 ethnic-Armenian soldiers had died in the fighting, among the worst in two decades.

Azerbaijan said it had lost 12 troops and there were unconfirmed reports of civilian deaths on both sides.

Nagorno-Karabakh has been in the hands of ethnic-Armenian separatists since a war that ended in 1994.

Russia, which has sold arms to both sides, called for an immediate ceasefire and for both sides to exercise restraint.

Azerbaijan said its armed forces had come under fire first from large-calibre artillery and grenade-launchers, and that it had taken over two strategic hills and a village.


Nagorno-Karabakh's military had images on its website reportedly showing a downed Azerbaijani helicopter

Both sides reported civilian casualties in the fighting

The fighting prompted a rush of potential recruits to Nagorno-Karabakh's military

The Armenian government said Azerbaijan had launched a "massive attack" with tanks, artillery and helicopters.

The Armenian-backed defence ministry in Karabakh said a 12-year-old boy had been killed and two other children injured.

Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has spoken with his Armenian and Azeri counterparts - Seyran Ohanyan and Zakir Hasanov - by phone, Interfax reported, in an effort to calm the situation.

Fighting between the two sides began in the late 1980s and escalated into full-scale war in 1991 as the Soviet Union collapsed, killing about 30,000 people before a ceasefire in 1994.

The region, which lies inside Azerbaijan but is controlled by ethnic Armenians, has since run its own affairs with Armenian military and financial backing, but clashes break out on a regular basis.

The fighting that erupted on Friday night is some of the worst since a 1994 ceasefire between the two sides. Azerbaijan says it has taken back two strategically important villages from the Armenian army, a claim denied by Armenia. As usual, both sides say the other pulled the trigger first.

There are reports of civilian casualties on both sides. Witnesses told the BBC's Azeri service that people were being evacuated from villages near to the conflict zone and that others were hiding in basements.

Both President Aliyev of Azerbaijan and Armenia's President Sargsyan are on their way back from the international nuclear summit in Washington.

Azerbaijan has purchased at least $4bn worth of arms from Russia. Armenia, an important strategic partner of Russia in the Caucasus, also buys weapons from Russia. There are concerns that the fighting could lead to a more wide-scale military conflict.

Leaders on both sides have been blamed for not making enough effort to achieve peace and instead using the conflict as a tool to stay in power. Nationalist sentiment boosted by pro-government media in both societies has been at its height in recent years.

The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) has expressed "grave concern" over the reported large-scale ceasefire violations.

The co-chairmen of the body's Minsk Group - ambassadors Igor Popov of Russia, James Warlick of the US, and Pierre Andrieu of France - issued a joint statement saying: "We strongly condemn the use of force and regret the senseless loss of life, including civilians.

"The co-chairs call upon the sides to stop shooting and take all necessary measures to stabilise the situation on the ground. They reiterate that there is no alternative to a peaceful negotiated solution of the conflict and that war is not an option."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35949991

Okay, this is really worrisome. With the civil war in Ukraine the region is already more than unstable enough...
It looks like the presidents of both countries were away while the violence suddenly flared up. Let's hope they will be able to calm down the situation.

Edit:

Azerbaijan envoy says ready for military solution to Nagorno-Karabakh issue, Erdogan backs Baku


Azerbaijan is ready to switch from a diplomatic to a military solution over the breakaway Nagorno-Karabakh region, Polad Bulbuloglu, Azeri ambassador to Russia, said following escalation in the area on Saturday.

“The attempts of a peaceful solution to this conflict have been underway for 22 years. How much more will it take? We are ready for a peaceful solution to the issue. But if it’s not solved peacefully then we will solve it by military means,” Bulbuloglu told Govorit Moskva radio station.

According to the ambassador, 21 percent of the Azerbaijani territory is now being occupied by Armenia.

The compromise on the part of Azerbaijan is an offer to the Armenian military to abandon the disputed territory. Only after that may the dialogue start about the coexistence of the Azeri and Armenian peoples in Nagorno-Karabakh, he stressed.

Armenian President, Serzh Sargsyan, promised that his country will fully execute its obligations to ensure the security of Nagorno-Karabakh.

"We have a legal right to so because we are a party to the ceasefire agreement signed in 1994,” he said on Saturday.

Sargsyan urged the need to sign a mutual military assistance agreement with Nagorno-Karabakh, tasking the Foreign Ministry with making all the necessary preparations.

Heavy fighting involving artillery, tanks and aircraft broke out on the contact line between Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh early on Saturday.

It’s so far unclear, who is responsible for the harshest escalation in the region since 1994, with Baku and Yerevan shifting blame on each other and claiming to have delivered significant losses to the opposition.

Azeri Defense ministry said that it had lost 12 troops, a helicopter and a tank during hostilities on Saturday.

According to Sargsyan, 18 Armenian soldiers were killed and 35 injured in the fighting with Azerbaijani forces.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has phoned his Azerbaijani counterpart, Ilham Aliyev, to express condolences over the death of Azeri troops on the Nagorno-Karabakh border.

"The Turkish President expressed his support and solidarity in relation to the events on the contact line between Armenian and Azerbaijani and stressed that the Turkish people will always be with the people of Azerbaijan," the Azeri president’s press service said in a statement.

Later, Erdogan blamed the inaction of the OSCE Minsk Group for the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute remaining unsettled after all those years, Aksam newspaper reported.

"If the Minsk Group had solved the problem in due time, we wouldn’t have witnessed the events now taking place on the contact line” between Azeri and Armenian forces, the Turkish leader said in the US as he opened an Islamic center in Lanham, Maryland.

Ironically, Turkey is part of the Minsk Group, which has Russia, the US and France as its co-chairs and also includes Belarus, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Finland, and the two conflicting nations.

The defense ministers of Azerbaijan and Turkey also discussed the events in Nagorno-Karabakh region.

Turkish Defense Minister, Ismet Yilmaz, expressed his full support to Baku, saying it has a “just stance” on the Nagorno-Karabakh issue.

Turkish Foreign Ministry also condemned Armenia for an alleged attack and urged Yerevan to fulfill the terms of the ceasefire.

The two former Soviet republics are locked in a decades-long conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh, a predominantly Armenian mountainous region that was part of Azerbaijan, but broke away in 1988.

The region declared independence in 1991, with a bloody three-year war following it. Russia brokered a ceasefire between Armenia and Azerbaijan in 1994, but the tensions have never actually stopped since then and there is occasional violence.

The mutual distrust between Armenia and Azerbaijan is rooted in a long history of ethnic and religious conflicts in the region as well as their participation in the rivalry of regional heavyweights – the Turks, the Russians and the Persians over the centuries.

Both nations had their first bid for statehood in the wake of the collapse of the Russian Empire in the early 20th century. Among other things their independence resulted in a war in 1918.

When Moscow reinstated its control over the region, the conflict was swept under the rug, but never fully extinguished.

https://www.rt.com/news/338196-nagorno-karabakh-armenia-azerbaijan-turkey/

Erdogan better not get involved in this, the bastard. If Erdogan backs Azerbaijan, you can bet Russia will start backing up Armenia.

The president of Azerbaijan doesn't seem all that willing to back down though. I really wonder how this thing started...

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/04/02 21:59:22


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Maybe local military got jumpy, bigger fish can hopefully calm it down

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"Peace keeping"

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"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
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FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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Can Russia financially afford another military adventure right now?
   
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Now we know why Russia downgraded it support with Syria

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I heard somewhere that Obama has chosen sides already... Because the US needs to get involved, I guess.

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An unfortunate situation all around, but it looks like the demographic borders are as complex, or even more complex, than the Yugoslavian debacle, with those enclaves and exclaves and whatnot.

Sounds like a local issue that exploded, hopefully the higher levels can smooth it out, neither side really needs a conflict right now.

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Azerbaijan has declared a cease-fire, but fighting seems to continue:

Azerbaijan claims cease fire in Nagorny-Karabakh, Armenia says hostilities continue

Azerbaijan has decided to unilaterally cease all hostilities in Karabakh, the country's Defense Ministry said. It added it would resume military action if attacked.

“Based on our love of peace and the calls of international organizations, Azerbaijan decided to unilaterally cease military response action,” ministry spokesman Vagif Dyargahly said.

The Armenian military said the declaration of a ceasefire contradicts the facts on the ground.

“Azerbaijan's statement is an info trap. It does not mean the hostilities were ceased,” Defense Ministry spokesperson Artsrun Ovannisyan wrote on Facebook.

The Azeri ministry reiterated its accusations that Armenia is to blame for the continued hostilities. It said that it would return fire, if their opponents try to take back territory captured by the Azeris during the Sunday offensive.

“The Armenian side tried to take back the territories liberated by Azerbaijan's military yesterday and lost 10 tanks and soldiers,” ministry spokesman Vagif Dyargahly said.

Azerbaijan considers Nagorno-Karabakh military as Armenian and refers to them as such. Nagorny-Karabakh is self-governed, but has strong support from Armenia.

The condition may be something that Nagorno-Karabakh authorities would not agree to observe. On Sunday morning, their military recaptured a hill previously lost to Azerbaijan, according to the Armenian Defense Ministry. But Nagorno-Karabakh said it is 'ready to discuss' a truce with Baku.

Azeri President Ilkham Aliev said he regarded the results of the clashes “a major military victory,” during a security council session on Saturday, television channel AzTV reported.

“It was not our fault. We responded to a provocation and did it right,” he said. “If Armenian soldiers don't want to die, let them leave our land.”

The violence in Nagorny-Karabakh, a breakaway Azeri region with a predominantly Armenian population that fought an independence war in the 1990s, escalated on Friday night.

Sporadic clashes along the engagement line reportedly continued on Sunday despite the effort of the OSCE Minsk group, which is tasked with preserving the truce in the conflict zone, to stop the violence.

Baku and Yerevan accused each other of provoking hostilities. It remains unclear which party triggered the latest round of escalation in Nagorny-Karabakh.

The exact number of casualties has also not been independently verified, as the numbers of enemy combatants killed or injured as claimed by each side are drastically higher than the corresponding number reported by the opposite party. Dozens are estimated to have been killed or injured.

https://www.rt.com/news/338220-azerbaijan-stops-karabakh-hostilites/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Wyrmalla wrote:
Eastern-Europe just can't get enough of using the Tavor can they? Bloody thing crops up everywhere.

Well, you do get tired of using nothing but AKs after so many years And Tavor is cheap, reliable and works with russian ammo.

 jhe90 wrote:
"Peace keeping"

Russia is already "peace keeping" in Armenia. The FSB also still controls Armenia's borders. Russia is very "concerned about Armenia's safety". They also happen to have some neat strategic military bases close to the Turkish and Iranian borders, but that is pure coincidence, of course.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/03 14:58:55


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And an Armenian guy just had his head cut off.

...No, no links, as they're from Russian sites who don't see an issue with posting unblurred pictures. ¬¬
   
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Room

Obama ordered Azerbaijan to attack Armenia.

Any Russian support to any side with be fault. So we choose peace,

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 Freakazoitt wrote:
Obama ordered Azerbaijan to attack Armenia.
To what point and purpose, and based on what evidence? More to the point, since when does Azerbaijan march to Washington's orders? Methinks we have a bit too high an estimation of the reach of US power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 13:57:20


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Room

Aliev visited US just before ordered full scale military offensive.
Coincidence?

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Yes.

Yes it is...

In a world where telephones and the internet didn't exist then maybe, but I hardly think politicians need to speak face to face for things to happen these days.

This is just another Russian funded proxy war for them to push their dominance in the region. They may not have started it (we'll find out when all the clandestine paperwork comes out in a couple of years), but they'll benefit from destabilizing the region regardless.

And yes, that was a hypocritical answer if you hadn't noticed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 14:05:30


 
   
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Room

I don't get how this conflict can be good for Russia. Do you think, Russia is something like fantasy Mordor?

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 Vaktathi wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
Obama ordered Azerbaijan to attack Armenia.
To what point and purpose, and based on what evidence? More to the point, since when does Azerbaijan march to Washington's orders? Methinks we have a bit too high an estimation of the reach of US power.

It wouldn't be the first time the US pulls a trick like this. And I would argue that neither you or me or everyone else has an accurate picture of the precise reach of US power. Secret services tend to be secret after all. And isn't it very, very convenient that the president of Azerbaijan Aliyev just happened to be in Washington at the time? I am not sure Obama ordered this, but it is somewhat suspicious at the very least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 14:13:48


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 Freakazoitt wrote:
I don't get how this conflict can be good for Russia. Do you think, Russia is something like fantasy Mordor?


They're backing the Armenians. Countries the Russians happen to back in border conflicts tend to involve a vested interest from the Russians. Similarly, border spats with said countries also tend to have little green men turn up soon after and massive land grabs.

Not that I live in a fantasy world, but any puppet state of Russian which grab land =/= Russia grabbing land for itself. Weakening those former Soviet states which no longer are happy with Big Brother Russia is to Russia's benefit, even if they aren't taking a direct hand in the conflict.

I'll leave Iron_Captain to find the .gifs of Bears in T-34s marching through Mordor.
   
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Room

Backing Armenians? Azerbaijan armed with best Russian weapons, sometimes even better than Russian Army has.
You don't understeand the situation. They are both allies to Russia.

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Pretty sure the two countries have hated each other over the little detail about the Armenian genocide and who did what to whom since the Ottoman Empire crumbled. Outside involvment, whether Russian or American, is hardly needed for the two belligerent sides to want to blow each other to tiny pieces.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
Obama ordered Azerbaijan to attack Armenia.
To what point and purpose, and based on what evidence? More to the point, since when does Azerbaijan march to Washington's orders? Methinks we have a bit too high an estimation of the reach of US power.

It wouldn't be the first time the US pulls a trick like this. And I would argue that neither you or me or everyone else has an accurate picture of the precise reach of US power. Secret services tend to be secret after all. And isn't it very, very convenient that the president of Azerbaijan Aliyev just happened to be in Washington at the time? I am not sure Obama ordered this, but it is somewhat suspicious at the very least.


One could just as easily argue that Armenia took the opportunity to strike while Aliyev was in Washington.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 14:26:29


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Room

One could just as easily argue that Armenia took the opportunity to strike while Aliyev was in Washington.

Strike what? Nagorniy Karabakh was arleady de-facto controlled by Armenia. Fighting will bring a chance for Azerbaijan to return Karabakh. Most likely, Armenia wasn't first attacker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 14:32:05


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 Freakazoitt wrote:
One could just as easily argue that Armenia took the opportunity to strike while Aliyev was in Washington.

Strike what? Nagorniy Karabakh was arleady de-facto controlled by Armenia. Fighting will bring a chance for Azerbaijan to return Karabakh. Most likely, Armenia wasn't first attacker.


Pre-emptive strikes are a thing. It's not like the two countries like each other.

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Room

Obviously, we missed some important event that led to the conflict. And that everyone hide from us.

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Room

A lot of oil, gas, zinc, pig iron, gold, silver, copper.. but that was already known long time ago (1960s).

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On moon miranda.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
Obama ordered Azerbaijan to attack Armenia.
To what point and purpose, and based on what evidence? More to the point, since when does Azerbaijan march to Washington's orders? Methinks we have a bit too high an estimation of the reach of US power.

It wouldn't be the first time the US pulls a trick like this.
but to what point and purpose? A few days of low level bloodshed in relativley irrelevant border states (that nobody really cares about on a larger geopolitical field) just for its own sake? I dont see really any reason that either the US or Russia currently has any intersest in this, particularly in light of exactly *where* the fighting is. It's far more likely that someone just did something stupid and it ran out of control than having either the US or Russia staging something from the shadows.

I find it especially hard to believe that the Azeri's would be so willing to spend lives for no appreciable reason based on "orders" from the US, and that it would be done so transparently when Aliyev is in the US.

I mean, I guess anything is possible, but the most likely explanation is just locals doing stupid gak.


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Clearly Russia planned the whole thing with the Lizardmen in the center of the Earth. They want to make sure they secure the Hammer of Thor, that way they can fight the Greys when they come down in their flying saucers and save us from Xenu!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/06 18:27:31


   
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 LordofHats wrote:
Clearly Russia planned the whole thing with the Lizardmen in the center of the Earth. They want to make sure they secure the Hammer of Thor, that way they can fight the Greys when they come down in their flying saucers and save us from Xenu!

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Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Wyrmalla wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
I don't get how this conflict can be good for Russia. Do you think, Russia is something like fantasy Mordor?

I'll leave Iron_Captain to find the .gifs of Bears in T-34s marching through Mordor.

Sorry, I only found a picture of T-34 with Polar bears:

let's pretend it is Mordor in winter

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/06 20:51:03


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A ceasefire, organized by the Russian's has been called.#

Lemme pull up one of those Youtube videos called "Sounds of ceasefire in Ukraine"...
   
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Why? Russia has no interest in continued fighting between Azerbaijan and Armenia. If a bunch of green men start showing up out of nowhere then sure, let's be suspicious, but there's nothing that points to this being anything but a "local" affair right now.

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