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So did GW give any good reason as to removing Belials rule that makes Terminators troops?

Just wondering, im still going to make a DW army and run it as an unbound army for fun, but kinda sad they removed them as troops :/ Was it just to op?

Because now the Deathwing attack force or whatever is available, so you get your Terminator "troops" without even needing Belial.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Because now the Deathwing attack force or whatever is available, so you get your Terminator "troops" without even needing Belial.

Oh so i can just field like 4 terminators and they will be troops now? no need for Belial?

You'll need a Dreadnought or two with Pods to get over the drawback from the FOC, but yeah you'll be fine.

You take the Deathwing Strike Force.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Dark_Angels(7E)#Deathwing_Strike_Force

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You take the Deathwing Strike Force.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Dark_Angels(7E)#Deathwing_Strike_Force

so if i understand this correctly, I would need something on the table, does not matter what, just something.

So my original list was 4 DW terminator squads, 1 raven wing bike squad, LRC, and Belial.

Ill need to change this by removing the raven wing bike squad, and possibly 1 DW term squad so that i can have a dreadnought on the field to not auto loose turn one? with the way the rule is written, can i have a LRC with termies in it and bring it out on turn two?

There's a very small formation out of that codex that has a bike squad or two. You should have a codex though so I'm sure you'll find it.

So then would i be able to make this list viable

Belial

terminators x4
LRC
raven wing bike squad?

I dont have the codex is front of me at this moment.

Pretty much they got rid of special rules that shift an army entry to a different slot.

They created the different detatchments or formations to cover that now.

The deathwing strike force (formation) is one. Along with the Company of the great wolf detachment for SW.

So I just did some research on it and I gotta say, I really hope they fix this and I'm gonna see and hope my GW store owner let's me play with 6th Ed rules for dw.

RAW right now make it so you can't take a land raider at all, in a dw army, and you have no choice but to take at minimum 1 dreadnought that needs to last one turn.

To me it seems that the DW army is broken unless you run a raven wing detachment or some other army so you have models on the field.

The short answer is that there is no reason why they made the Deathwing rules the way they did. The long answer is that nothing matters anymore because you can just go Unbound and solve all your problems. GW gave up on writing good rules when it realized that a vast majority of its customers seemingly no longer cared about such trivial things.

 the_Armyman wrote:
The short answer is that there is no reason why they made the Deathwing rules the way they did. The long answer is that nothing matters anymore because you can just go Unbound and solve all your problems. GW gave up on writing good rules when it realized that a vast majority of its customers seemingly no longer cared about such trivial things.

Thats kinda how i looked at it now, said screw it unbound. But now im looking at a more interesting problem. Say you did run it as a deathwing detachment.

RAW say all forces in the detachment must start in deep strike reserve, and can only enter via deep strike. But here is the sticky thing, what if you take a LR as a transport for one of them?

LRs cant deep strike, but the rule says any unit in the in the detachment must deep strike. So what over write what? Does the LR overwrite the summoned to war special rule? or do LR get to deep strike, because i think it would be funny as hell to have SUDDENLY LAND RAIDER FROM NO WHERE POINT BLANK RANGE!

Just BTW, there's nothing strange or unfluffy about deep striking Land Raiders.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Just BTW, there's nothing strange or unfluffy about deep striking Land Raiders.

Fluff wise yeah, thunder hawk gg, not sure on how that would carry over rule wise, since you know, suddenly lrr say hello to my heavy Flamers assault grenades and terminators that are assaulting all in one fell swoop

 Backspacehacker wrote:

LRs cant deep strike, but the rule says any unit in the in the detachment must deep strike. So what over write what? Does the LR overwrite the summoned to war special rule? or do LR get to deep strike, because i think it would be funny as hell to have SUDDENLY LAND RAIDER FROM NO WHERE POINT BLANK RANGE!

Yes, LRs in this formation do in fact Deep Strike. However, DSing something as large as a LR is probably just asking for a mishap. But, if you plan on running more than one LR, take a look at the Land Raider Spearhead formation from the Space Marine codex as a possibility.

Since Land Raiders do not have Deep Strike, they can not be placed in Deep Strike reserve, which means you cant take them.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Since Land Raiders do not have Deep Strike, they can not be placed in Deep Strike reserve, which means you cant take them.

Neither do dropods . Drop Pod Assualt has virtually (a single synonym is changed) wording as the Deathwing deathment, I.E. "This model\all units in this formation MUST be placed in deep strike reserves." If Deathwing LRs can't DS, then neither can Drop Pods.

Yes, but doesnt the drop pod have other rules that mention the Drop Pod deepstriking? Where as the Land Raiders are not mentioned as having that.

Nope drop pod does not mention deep striking.

Like I said I just wanna know if a dw detachment takes a lr because rules still let them.

Does the lr get the deep strike rule? Or can that squad be deployed from reserves on turn one.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Since Land Raiders do not have Deep Strike, they can not be placed in Deep Strike reserve, which means you cant take them.

The formation explicitly tells you that all units must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Therefore, Land Raiders taken as Dedicated Transports must now Deep Strike. Although a bit silly to imagine, it's not exactly game-breaking in today's environment. You'd be doing most armies a favor by moving 250+ points of melta-bait closer to their line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Nope drop pod does not mention deep striking.

Like I said I just wanna know if a dw detachment takes a lr because rules still let them.

Does the lr get the deep strike rule? Or can that squad be deployed from reserves on turn one.

ALL units in the formation MUST be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Which means you must have another CAD or formation on the table on Turn 1 or you will auto-lose. There is no Turn 1 DW deep strike using the current DA codex.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Since Land Raiders do not have Deep Strike, they can not be placed in Deep Strike reserve, which means you cant take them.

The formation explicitly tells you that all units must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Therefore, Land Raiders taken as Dedicated Transports must now Deep Strike. Although a bit silly to imagine, it's not exactly game-breaking in today's environment. You'd be doing most armies a favor by moving 250+ points of melta-bait closer to their line.

But deathwing assault forces can shoot them run, or run then shoot on the same time they deep strike, soon you can deep strike a lrr point blank range, flamer, assault frag and roll out your terminators as soon as you drop in.

Take the Fight to the Enemy (DA Deathwing Strike Force): Units from this Formation can either shoot and then Run, or Run and then shoot, in the Shooting phase of the turn they arrive by Deep Strike. (Codex: Dark Angels 2015 p158)

So if a lr gets deep strike and take the fight to the enemy, WEW LADS!

You can't dissembark with a run move...

Disembarking from a LR is done during the Movement phase. You can't use a Run move in the Shooting phase to disembark, so you're plan doesn't work, bud.

Oh well fair enough question answered on the usefulness of deep striking a LR, but still don't know if it's do able

But usefulness aside, would you say a lr taken as a dedicated transport for a dw detachment, gets the deep strike rule?

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Oh well fair enough question answered on the usefulness of deep striking a LR, but still don't know if it's do able

But usefulness aside, would you say a lr taken as a dedicated transport for a dw detachment, gets the deep strike rule?

Yes, ALL units in the formation MUST be placed in DS Reserve. There is no gray area here.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Oh well fair enough question answered on the usefulness of deep striking a LR, but still don't know if it's do able

But usefulness aside, would you say a lr taken as a dedicated transport for a dw detachment, gets the deep strike rule?

Yes, ALL units in the formation MUST be placed in DS Reserve. There is no gray area here.

awesome, deep striking a LRC to the front lines