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In seventh edition I do like how psychic powers are handled in comparison to earlier editions, with the whole dedicated psychic phase, warp dice and extended perils table. The only thing that bothers me about psychics these days is the random generating of their powers. It's easy to get a dud power, and next to impossible to plan a strategy around it. And I can't help but feel that since you paid for the psyker, you should get the powers you're looking for. You don't roll a dice to determine what wargear you get...unless you're demons. 5th edition was a lot more boring with regards to the powers, but at least you knew what you were getting when you bought the pysker.

As a friend pointed out to me, you've got three options when it comes to psykers;

1. Don't bother with psykers at all (a shame really).
2. Take only limited numbers of them and use them as a sideshow.
3. Spam them in the hope that you eventually, somewhere, get the powers you want or need.

I would much rather we got to pick our own powers. But there's a problem with that. Everyone would just spam Invisibility. That's human nature.

So I have this compromise system for generating powers. It's actually inspired a bit by the magic system in Age Of Sigmar, where every wizard gets two basic spells in addition to whatever spells they have on their warscroll. This system I have will require the nature of masterly levels to be adjusted though. But I'll come to that.

Each Discipline is now divided into 3 parts; the Primarus Power, the Offensive Powers, and the Defensive Powers. OK, those last two need better names but lets just roll with it for now. The offensive powers are the three powers in the discipline chart that directly attack the enemy, either as witchfires or maledictions etc. The defensive powers are the blessings that benefit your own troops or the conjuration powers. And each one is numbered 1-3 on their respective list. When a Pysker chooses a discipline, they automatically get the Primarus Power, and then they roll d3 on the offensive and defensive tables. So when all is said and done, they will have 3 powers; the primarus power, 1 randomly generated offensive power, and 1 randomly generated defensive power.

Lets use Biomancy as an example in this system. I would now count Leech Life as the Primarus Power, and here's why; in game terms it has both offensive and defensive capabilities, so its the perfect go between. And in fluff terms, I strongly believe that Biomancers should be able to manipulate life energies at will, sucking it out and absorbing or spreading it around as they please. Under the Offensive Powers list we have Smite at 1, Enfeeble at 2 and Haemorrhage at 3. Roll a D3 to see which one you get. Then under the Defensive Powers list we have Iron Arm at 1, Warp Speed at 2 and Endurance at 3. Again, roll a D3 to see which one you get.

Lets say we have a Space Marine Biomancer Librarian. After his dice rolls, he has Leech Life, Enfeeble and Iron Arm. 3 powers. But what about casting them?

This is the other part of my system. I would now say that Pyskers can only choose powers from one discipline each, unless it says otherwise. Where their masterly level comes into play is determining how many warp dice they can generate (as is the case now), and determining how many powers they can cast a turn. They can cast one power per masterly level. So a masterly level 1 pysker is stuck to one power a turn, but a masterly level 2 pysker can cast 2 powers a turn, and generates the extra warp dice needed to cast that. Each power known by the psyker can only be cast once per phase as is currently the case. Since all pyskers will now know a minimum of 3 powers, I had to put that break on it to keep the balance. And to make increasing the masterly level actually have a point beyond more warp dice.

So lets say that Biomancer Librarian is level 2. That means the player will have D6+2 Warp Dice minimum to try and cast two powers a turn from the choice of either Leech Life, Enfeeble or Iron Arm, with only one attempt to cast each power.

That's a lot to get through but I hope it makes sense. And I hope I struck a balance between the randomness of the powers with the player actually getting the chance to get useful ones more often, with the chance to build proper strategies around their pyskers.

What do you guys think? This will need play testing I know, and a few disciplines might need rewriting to work, but is what I presented here viable?

I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. You'd be looking at (probably) a bit more book keeping for some psykers. So a simple ML1 librarian would have three powers to keep track of instead of two, and several of them would have to be rolled for randomly.

Your suggestions decrease the randomness of psychic powers, but don't eliminate the possibility of not getting a key power that you need. Want to make sure you have gate of infinity to transport a big blob of terminators? You're still out of luck if neither of those two librarians you took roll it (improbably a that may be).

Also, I'm not entirely sure this system would work well with all disciplines out there. How would Runes of Battle work? Or Phantasmancy which has two blessings and four witchfires?

I think you have some solid concepts here, but it *does* feel like a compromise, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. If we're changing things up, why not really change them up to a more ideal solution?

Personally, I kind of like the idea of keeping the current casting system but making powers purchasable rather than random again.

I second wyldhunt on the purchase. Give Them based mastery level psychic points and the can purchase spells( also make it That a ml 1 cannot get invisibility) means if you want an awesome spell you need to invest in psychic

I think you guys are right. Maybe it's best to look at the powers like wargear and assign points costs to them. At least then the disciplines wouldn't need to be completely rewritten.

Some powers should definitely cost an arm and a leg though. Or their charge level should be increased. Or both.

Maybe pyromancy can be the 'budget' discipline since it's largely a light infantry killer, whilst divination would be the premium rate discipline since its blessings are always useful.

One question though. Is it possible to assign a flat points cost to a power for all armies?

EDIT:

I think I got it!

Ok, what if, the masterly levels of your pyskers were used before the game as a 'currency', and the charge of the powers was the price you pay to buy them? Whilst the primarus powers are all free?

Let's say for talks sake that an IG army has an astropath, a level one primarus pysker and a squad of Wyrdvane pyskers. 3 masterly level one pyskers. 3 points. The player goes ahead and buys invisibility for the astropath. That has a warp charge of 2. 2pts. So the player has only one point left. So they go ahead and buy a power with a warp charge of 1 for either the primarus or the wyrdvanes, whilst the other will be stuck using the primarus power of a chosen discipline. The player decides to go with Divination for the others, and buys Forewarning for the primarus, whilst the wyrdvanes get prescience by default.

However, thanks to psychic focus, the astropath will get psychic shriek in addition to Invisibility, whilst the primarus pysker will also get prescience as well. So three pyskers get 5 powers, with the player having picked all of them more or less. Buying more pyskers earns you more warp points to buy more and/or better powers.

What do you guys think? I'm aware that in this example, three of the best powers have been selected right off the bat. But the player has had to buy about 200pts worth of models to get them (that astropath comes with a company command squad after all). And the astropath wouldn't have been able to afford invisablity without the player buying more pyskers. And the player still has to manifest them during the game anyway. So they require a big investment to get what you want.

That was my idea exactly, I think there should be some restrictions to it. Like endurance/vortix/sumoning/invisibility to name a few should require a higher ml to even buy them

I like that idea, generally speaking: certainly makes psychic power-based strategies more reliable.

Invisibility, specifically, is the one power that might break things, but if it's the only wart that sticks out of an otherwise clean design, the obvious solution is to nerf/tweak Invisibility.

I like the concept of buying powers.

My original thought was.. every psycher is independent.. and therefore in order to get these warp charge, 2 or more cost, powers you need "some of the best psychers around".

So in this situation.. a farseer lvl 3 can buy misfortune for 2 and guide for 1.. and that is all he knows then. OR he can buy misfortune for 2, perfect timing for 1, and since he is focused in the discipline, he gets the primarus for free.

This will force you to pay for those ml2 librarians if you want to even be able to cast things like invisibility. And I do realize some powers will be unattainable for some psychers.. but is that a bad thing? .. not sure.

**EDIT**

Second thought... a librarian can pick any number of powers EQUAL to his mastery level.. and if your focused.. you get the primarius for free. HOWEVER.. you can only pick powers of warp charges equal to or less then your ML. So if your ML1 you can only pick warp charge 1 powers... etc

So a masterly level 1 pysker can buy one warp charge 1 power and receive the primarus from its discipline in addition to it, whilst a level 2 pysker could buy two warp charge 1 powers from two separate disciplines, or two warp charge 1 powers from the same discipline with the primarus, or one warp charge 2 power with the disciplines primarus?

That works for me. Seems more than fair, and encourages the player to buy more levels to get the best powers. It does mean though that us Imperial guard players can never get invisibility without allies. Not unless astropaths can upgrade their masterly level. Which I guess isn't out of the question.

If invisibility is a problem, it could always revert back to its 6th edition version (6s to hit for both shooting and combat rather than snap shots, so blast and template weapons can still hit it). I would write it so that even with blast and template weapons though, the player still needs to roll a 6 on a d6 first. Twin linked and perferred enemy etc still allow rerolls.

Mastery levels as power currency is a neat idea, but I still don't really like it. I mean, I'd be fine with it if you addressed the obvious problems like invisibility, but it still doesn't really seem ideal. You could change the WC of Haemorrhage to 1, but it would still probably be underwhelming next to many other WC1 options, even on the Biomancy table.

Simply giving each power a points cost allows you to weigh and assign the value of each of those powers without having to change their WC (thus altering how they play in-game).

That idea about making Pyromancy the "discount" discipline? I like that. But it doesn't work if you use ML as currency instead of points. Taking a blasty pyromancy power is unlikely to be as appealing as iron arm, smite, psychic shriek, etc.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
So a masterly level 1 pysker can buy one warp charge 1 power and receive the primarus from its discipline in addition to it, whilst a level 2 pysker could buy two warp charge 1 powers from two separate disciplines, or two warp charge 1 powers from the same discipline with the primarus, or one warp charge 2 power with the disciplines primarus?

exactly.

Sounds cool. though I personally would love to see more the lines of a mastery tree rpg style. keeping them in the current type disciplines.

the psyker level allows you to unlock down the tree to whatever you really want. (though spells should be heavily balanced)

then in game it really should be a LD test + a dice for each mastery level to cast a spell.

imho

@ Wyldhunt

I guess the only way to see which system works best is to playtest the both of them. Personally I think either system could be viable. If pyromancy is they cheap discipline then the powers should be very cheap. 5-10pts a go. Maybe 20pts tops. Like actual flamers and melta guns.

 Desubot wrote:
Sounds cool. though I personally would love to see more the lines of a mastery tree rpg style. keeping them in the current type disciplines.

the psyker level allows you to unlock down the tree to whatever you really want. (though spells should be heavily balanced)

then in game it really should be a LD test + a dice for each mastery level to cast a spell.

imho

I could see something like 2d6 + warp charge cost <= LD it is successful. Or something like that.

Personally I'm fine with the system the BRB uses for manifesting powers. It was just the way powers are generated that bothered me.

Either way, by choosing your own powers at least now you can make strategies around them. I'd be keen to use shrouding on an astropath to bump up camo gear on the command squad and a few close range tanks for example. Or use iron arm and warp speed on a primarus to make a decent beatstick.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Sounds cool. though I personally would love to see more the lines of a mastery tree rpg style. keeping them in the current type disciplines.

the psyker level allows you to unlock down the tree to whatever you really want. (though spells should be heavily balanced)

then in game it really should be a LD test + a dice for each mastery level to cast a spell.

imho

I could see something like 2d6 + warp charge cost <= LD it is successful. Or something like that.

its something that can be easily balanced and twerked by making it easier or harder to cast.

For me, the best way is to buy a wargear item (for points) that allows a level 3 or 4 psyker to chose the psychic power. (I.E. wargear item like "staff of nonsense" that means you can pick the primaris if all the powers are from the same school)

Possibly this can't be done until the powers are worth the same in gaming terms. Because invisibility is totally OP.

How about allowing player to adjust the dice rolls for choosing powers by their ML.

This would probably have to be across all power eg ML has 3 points of adjustment to use across the 3 power rolls, not each.

Also some armies probably need a ML3 option first. Guard and SM can't do this (unless you're Ultramarines) and other codexes have to rely in special Characters or massive point sinks (Daemon Princes)

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I like the concept of buying powers.

I completely agree. I also think that named psykers should already have powers attached to them.

Currently, using a psyker is like bringing Darth Vader and not knowing whether or not he'll be able to use Force Choke.

Of course, this would require an increase in the points cost of psykers, as well as serious nerfs to some psyker abilities.

I'm still very keen on the idea of using your Masterly Level as a currency to buy powers with. It's simple and it allows you to plan strategies with your powers in advance.

Following the advice of a friend though, I think it's best to restrict Primarus Powers to those who choose to use Psychic Focus. Of course, this might mean that the powers might need to be jiggled around a bit. And the Warp Charge of some powers might need tweaked too.