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Ok guys. If i put a weaponsmith on top of the fortess of redemption can it shoot from there. Ive had this problem before with an ageis wall. The model is to short to see over anything so is it just ok for me to shoot them? And would it be considered cheating if i built up their base to make them
tall enough?

Can any part of them be seen over the wall? LOS draws from any body part these days, I think, not just eyes.

If playing in a situation where you draw LOS from the eyes (ITC, f'rex) then no they can't shoot, and building up the bases is cheating.

That being said, the ADL and FOR walls have 'gun slits' on the tall segments that almost all models can see through, even if they can't see over the wall.

So would it be cheating if I made gun slits in top of the tower?

Inksoul wrote:
So would it be cheating if I made gun slits in top of the tower?

It would be "moddelling for advantage" just as building up the bases would be. It's not a rule in the rulebook, and is very dependent on your local group or TO.

The reason this bothers me is because i see cutom built towers all the time that are allowed in tournaments that have much ahorter walls. Grrrr. O well. Thx guys

Inksoul wrote:
The reason this bothers me is because i see cutom built towers all the time that are allowed in tournaments that have much ahorter walls. Grrrr. O well. Thx guys

Any tournament that allows custom built towers with shorter walls (i.e. modeling for advantage) should have no problem with you building up your base to see over a taller wall (i.e. modeling for advantage). You should probably check with the tournament organizer.

if I recall correctly, the battlements themselves are thick enough to place a model on top of them. You wouldn't gain the 4+ cover save, but you would be able to use the improved LoS for your shooting.

 carldooley wrote:
if I recall correctly, the battlements themselves are thick enough to place a model on top of them. You wouldn't gain the 4+ cover save, but you would be able to use the improved LoS for your shooting.

Nope. Good luck balancing a model on top of one of those things. I don't see it happening.

 Kriswall wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
if I recall correctly, the battlements themselves are thick enough to place a model on top of them. You wouldn't gain the 4+ cover save, but you would be able to use the improved LoS for your shooting.

Nope. Good luck balancing a model on top of one of those things. I don't see it happening.

on the corners then . I remember being able to put Karamazov in the parapet and being able to put Crusaders around it (on the corners) for Look out Sir! rolls.

If you could balance on the battlements in full line of sight, you'll still get a cover save for being there. You get a cover save for being on battlements, regardless of whether the model is obscured*. I'm not sure how gaming groups would feel towards you balancing models there. :/

*Yes, this means that if an attacker fights their way onto the wall of one part of a Fortress of Redemption, they'll get a cover save against the shots coming from the tower, defying the logic of every fortification from the last thousand years. Imperial military architects should be shot.

Thank you guys. Ill tey ro balance them.up there... hell. Ill drill some magnets in there

Inksoul wrote:
Thank you guys. Ill tey ro balance them.up there... hell. Ill drill some magnets in there

Assuming this was a joke, but putting magnets in your terrain so you can balance models where they normally wouldn't stay is TOTALLY modeling for advantage... which is pretty universally condemned. I probably wouldn't pack up and leave, but I'd role my eyes, think less of you as a sportsman and never play with you again if you pulled something like this.

Kriswall, at least with the magnets, they won't be Wobbly Models.

 Happyjew wrote:
Kriswall, at least with the magnets, they won't be Wobbly Models.

Wobbly Model Syndrome is based on both players agreeing that the spot is legal. WMS isn't intended to allow bizarre and non-standard placements that only one player thinks is legit. It's intended to provide relief for a situation where both players think a model belongs somewhere, but that model keeps falling over.

Using magnets to avoid WMS and by extension avoid having to get your opponent's agreement is totally modeling for advantage.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Kriswall, at least with the magnets, they won't be Wobbly Models.

Wobbly Model Syndrome is based on both players agreeing that the spot is legal.

No, that is not true.

Wobbly Model Syndrome is based on both players agreeing that the model is in that location.

WMS isn't intended to allow bizarre and non-standard placements that only one player thinks is legit. It's intended to provide relief for a situation where both players think a model belongs somewhere, but that model keeps falling over.

Actually we do not know what the intent is, so do not claim that as truth.

Using magnets to avoid WMS and by extension avoid having to get your opponent's agreement is totally modeling for advantage.

Maybe, Maybe not. it depends on where the magnets are.

On the 3rd floor of a ruin at the edge? i wouldnt think twice about putting a magnet there because WMS would come into play and the model would be there anyway.

The group I used to play with had a bit of a house rule for this kind of thing. I play IG, and the heavy weapons teams can definately not draw LoS from behind an ADL, so what then is the point of having it. We decided that any model, regardless of actual hieght/pose, that was in bad contact with an obvious defensive feature (ADL, the wall of a battlement, even a low wall in a ruin) was considered to be 'manning' the wall. This meant that the model could draw line of sight from the point of contact over the obstacle and could also be targeted, and still had the cover save.

Like many of the rules GW writes, they often times don't make sense.