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Hello i have seen Nanavati's list at adepticon, he played burning skyhost, not regardless his 3rd place, what do you think about that formation, in a format like ITC for example, someone tried it? thanks for feedbacks.

It looks so, sooooo strong. Think about its implications, cast shrouded on any of the units and ANY unit within 12 gains shrouded (technically only each model within 12 but due to shrouded's rule of if any model in a unit has shrouded the whole unit has it) meaning those crazy amounts of crazy fast jetbikes with ignore terrain are going to fly around untouched with their 2+ jink save (and 2 wounds each model) and destroy pretty much anything and everything with their warpflame trails, vector strikes and their crazy powerful multipurpose attacks

Reavas wrote:
It looks so, sooooo strong. Think about its implications, cast shrouded on any of the units and ANY unit within 12 gains shrouded (technically only each model within 12 but due to shrouded's rule of if any model in a unit has shrouded the whole unit has it) meaning those crazy amounts of crazy fast jetbikes with ignore terrain are going to fly around untouched with their 2+ jink save (and 2 wounds each model) and destroy pretty much anything and everything with their warpflame trails, vector strikes and their crazy powerful multipurpose attacks

Wait where are you getting this shrouding from? Are you just assuming that a psyker gets the power?

Also shrouding is only a 6" bubble unless they have a different rule that I'm not seeing

My bad, i thought it was either 12 or 6, but you could still easily keep 1 model within 6 of a unit with shrouded

Daemons get shrouded easier than most spells, just take be'lakor or hope you roll the spell

yes but i was talking about Nanavari's list and he had no Be'lakor in it :=)

What is his list?

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Nick-Navavati-3rd-Overall-Adepticon-2016.pdf

this one

Its just MSU spam with 1 unit being made into Screamerstar

thanks that i know, your comments are always interesting lol.

Has anyone playtested the burning skyhost yet? I'm really concerned about the negative effects of warpflame.

Does the locus of change look like it would work well with this?

The math behind the burning skyhost looks really strong. The formation gives a 50% damage increase in vector strikes alone.

I've not played it yet, but it's on my list of things to try out.

I think the most interesting component of the list is the inclusion of the Masque. She has always had potential as a utility option, but it has been hard to use her effectively. I am thinking she ends up in a Bastion, but maybe there is a better way to play her.

I have one painted that hardly ever sees the table and I would love to see some options to use her.

 calypso2ts wrote:
I think the most interesting component of the list is the inclusion of the Masque. She has always had potential as a utility option, but it has been hard to use her effectively. I am thinking she ends up in a Bastion, but maybe there is a better way to play her.

I've been toying with the idea of running The Masque alongside a Voidshield Generator in my list. Between the screamers and The Masque, you have so much board control and the VSG can help give her the resiliency needed to make effective use of the bubble. Else you're just sticking her into T3 ablative wound mobs.

Even worse than putting her in a T3 mob, she is not an IC so she is just chilling on her own - one Scatter laser wound way from ID.

She is only 75 points though, so it's not a huge investment.

You might be able to make some good use with of her with the amount of deathstars out. The "Dance of Caging" of a wolfstar is just a kick in the nuts - as what makes that star so great is it's ability to deliver huge amounts of damage. Forcing it to move and assault D3 inches means it is effectively caged for the game.

Yep, that's an average move of 2", with a run of 2". That deathstar is going nowhere.

Your opponent would need to break it apart to get out of the cage, as the masque can only cage one unit a turn -- and then you are only facing a portion of the wolfstar.

Damn good point, and one i overlooked (I too have owned one forever. I just never used it). I just assumed she was an IC, but rereading the entry, you're 100% correct.

The only real option is to "waste" heralds supporting her. She gets a reroll on failed saves, so grimoire or cursed earth could be good. To smart players she'll be a fire magnet though.

Sucks, since using fortifications to bunker her makes the bubble less mobile.

I think in reality, it's going to just require effective use of terrain. Daemon deathstars are pretty damned resilient (even with ITC saves), so it isn't necessary to have her ability all the time. So deep strike is an option, as is kiting threats and effectively "hiding" her behind terrain.

She's a hard counter to deathstars, and not super effective elsewise.

gesis wrote:
She's a hard counter to deathstars, and not super effective elsewise.

The point is that counter is only 75 points.

You mentioned cursed earth as a support, which is also a support for all other daemons. Cursed Earth is probably the best power under the malefiic tree. If you are using Karios to maximize the warp storm you will also get +1 invlun 55% of the time. Combined with cursed earth, this starts to get really good.

Which also works well with all Tzeentch daemons, such as the burning skyhost. Getting a 3++ rerolling 1s is pretty damn sweet.

The point is that counter is only 75 points.

the problem now wolfstar can be "teleported" trought switch psychic power 1st turn (foe example dropping a drop pod or using scouts infiltrating), so you have no time to use your masque before they charge most of time.

Teleporting is an issue, but as with all surprise assaults, the defence is bubble wrap.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Teleporting is an issue, but as with all surprise assaults, the defence is bubble wrap.

Conviently enough, daemons can summon their own bubble wrap too!

i mean you cant use that power to prevent wolfstar hit your head
ok you can use a bubble wrap but cant shut out the deathstar

Deathstars are a worry. One problem with the skyhost(hey on topic) is that warpflame can actually make death stars more resilient.

The masque seems like a decent counter, but what about crushing them?
D thirster is the only thing that comes to mind. (Or knights?)With some support that won't evaporate and cause instability. And something to make the d thirster not die.

 labmouse42 wrote:

gesis wrote:
She's a hard counter to deathstars, and not super effective elsewise.

The point is that counter is only 75 points.

You mentioned cursed earth as a support, which is also a support for all other daemons. Cursed Earth is probably the best power under the malefiic tree. If you are using Karios to maximize the warp storm you will also get +1 invlun 55% of the time. Combined with cursed earth, this starts to get really good.

Which also works well with all Tzeentch daemons, such as the burning skyhost. Getting a 3++ rerolling 1s is pretty damn sweet.

At 1850,is really hard to pack in fateweaver [300pts], skyhost [950ish pts], the masque [she's more like 165pts, since in almost all daemon lists you're taking another CAD to fit her in], and then any of the core+aux choices for an incursion. So far, the demonic Incursion has made me pretty sad despite the otherwise awesome special rules.

However, back to the masque. I don't think she's bad, even at 165pts, she's a bargain versus 1000pt deathstars. I just think you'll need to play smart to keep her alive and make best use of her, because 12" is scary close sometimes.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Deathstars are a worry. One problem with the skyhost(hey on topic) is that warpflame can actually make death stars more resilient.

The masque seems like a decent counter, but what about crushing them?
D thirster is the only thing that comes to mind. (Or knights?)With some support that won't evaporate and cause instability. And something to make the d thirster not die.

The upside is that you're already going to roll 1,000,000 times on malefic. In all that rolling, you should end up with the ability to summon one [d thirster] up if you need.

Um... You can take Core+Skyhost+Fatey+MMasque as a single Incursion, can't you? Pretty sure a Tallyband of Nurglings fits the bill pretty well, and I suspect you can even fit an ok-sized Flayertroupe in.

 Swampmist wrote:
Um... You can take Core+Skyhost+Fatey+MMasque as a single Incursion, can't you? Pretty sure a Tallyband of Nurglings fits the bill pretty well, and I suspect you can even fit an ok-sized Flayertroupe in.

You have to take a flayertroupe to get the masque. She's not a command choice. You also lose the ability to spam heralds like you can in a CAD.

Incursions have a lot going for them, but they suck up points fiercely with tax units.

 labmouse42 wrote:

gesis wrote:
She's a hard counter to deathstars, and not super effective elsewise.

The point is that counter is only 75 points.

You mentioned cursed earth as a support, which is also a support for all other daemons. Cursed Earth is probably the best power under the malefiic tree. If you are using Karios to maximize the warp storm you will also get +1 invlun 55% of the time. Combined with cursed earth, this starts to get really good.

Which also works well with all Tzeentch daemons, such as the burning skyhost. Getting a 3++ rerolling 1s is pretty damn sweet.

Keep in mind that you can't really fit in a Daemonic Incursion list with the Burning Skyhost + Fateweaver unless you run the Tallyband. That means you won't have any real hitting power. Thus, in a list such as Nick's, he won't have the +/-1 to the Warpstorm table, which means at best, he's probably looking at a 33% to get the +1 Invuln.

I run masque + daemonettes[icon, instrument] with my orkses quite often. They're meh against msu but amazing against deathstars. Instrument helps masque get on the table earlier as it's basically another chance for her and icon makes it a non-scatter deepstrike. So, the ideal scenario is that you ds nettes, than ds masque close to blos. It does it's work and runs away from harm for a turn.

yesterday evening i saw a match with the list i posted below and a gladius marine and for marines was a very hard time so npw i m interested in it

murderhorde
K herald less reward juggernaut
8x5 hounds

burning skyhost
Tz herald disc 1°level
9x3 screamers

CAD
Kairos
2x3 nurglins
Obj corruption+ob secure troops (nurglings) look awesome, warp storm manipulation with kairos reroll and +1/-1 from incursion mean at least 50% of time you get +1 Inv save for all your army, hounds plus fast screamers control all the board, killing a veichle after another, i liked what i saw

Looks interesting. Surprising no grimoire/ other buffs,but I guess points were super tight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually comes to just over 1850== would have to cut the juggernaut.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hey there's an article.
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/26/40k-list-tech-one-daemon-list-to-roll-them-all/

I think I'd prefer a locus of rage over a lesser and the oracular Dias. Maybe a lesser and a locus of abjuration.

yes at 1850 you must cut the juggy of course, they played just a bit over 1850 last evening, it change not a lot anyway with or without juggy, locus is a bit useless if you are on foot and hounds scout then move 12". Without disk/juggy herald become just a mandatory unit with almost not porpouse,