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Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Man, I can't even with this one.


First-graders cuffed, arrested, charged; Murfreesboro outraged
USA TODAY NETWORK Jessica Bliss, The (Nashville) Tennessean 7:30 a.m. EDT April 20, 2016


MURFREESBORO, Tenn. — Police handcuffed multiple students, ages 6 to 11, at a public elementary school in Murfreesboro on Friday, inspiring public outcry and adding fuel to already heightened tensions between law enforcement and communities of color nationwide.

The arrests at Hobgood Elementary School occurred after the students were accused of not stopping a fight that happened several days earlier off campus. A juvenile center later released the students, but local community members now call for action — police review of the incident and community conversation — and social justice experts across the country use words such as "startling" and "flabbergasted" in response to actions in the case.

Parents and community members sharply criticized the arrests of the students at a church meeting Sunday. The Murfreesboro police chief on Sunday cited the incident as a learning experience, a chance to "make things better so they don't happen again." The city manager said Sunday: "If something needs to be corrected, it will be."


It remains unclear exactly how many children were arrested. State law prohibits the release of juvenile law enforcement records, and police have denied a media request for the information. Murfreesboro police didn't say what state law the kids violated, but parents of several of the arrested children say the kids were charged with "criminal responsibility for conduct of another," which according to Tennessee criminal offense code includes incidents when a "person fails to make a reasonable effort to prevent" an offense.

At least five of the 10 children reportedly involved are black. The race of the arresting officers is unknown. Police officials have said they plan to complete a review of the arrest incident within the next 15 days.

At a time of heightened tension in the country between police and the residents of the neighborhoods they protect — particularly minority communities — the incident raises concerns regarding several national issues, including the over-disciplining of kids of color, the criminalization of childhood behaviors and the growing mistrust some residents have with law enforcement.


"It's unimaginable, unfathomable that authority figures would ... do something that has such implications," said Bishop Joseph Walker III, pastor of Mt. Zion Baptist Church of Nashville. "When we, as a community, are telling our kids don’t get involved in violence and don’t get in harm's way, (arresting them for not intervening) is the most amazing paradox of our society — and it is devastating to us."

Children, by definition, are immature, said Stephanie Bohon, an associate professor of sociology at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville and the founder of the school's Center for the Study of Social Justice. It's appropriate to ground them or give them detention, she said, but "when you deal with that kind of behavior by handcuffing children and running them through the legal system, the first thing they learn is the police are there to punish them, and they are not there to help them."

Children should be held to a different standard when it comes to accountability, Walker said.

"They don’t have the maturity to understand certain situations," like when to intervene, he said. And to be arrested for not taking action, "They will be forever scarred because of that."

More than 150 people, almost entirely African-American, gathered at First Baptist Church in Murfreesboro on Sunday afternoon to discuss the incident. One attendee asked why the charges against the children could not be dismissed.

In addition to angry parents and supporters, Murfreesboro Police Chief Karl Durr and City Manager Rob Lyons were in the crowd. Christopher Williams, the school safety and education officer at Hobgood on the day of the incident, said that the Hobgood administration and office staff "handled the situation as wonderfully and as good as they could have."

A video was taken of the incident, and officers later obtained arrest warrants for students who did not break up the disturbance, said the Rev. James McCarroll, pastor of First Baptist Church. Information about who took the video and how the police obtained it is not clear.

Such arrests, experts say, can damage a decades-old movement by many police forces working to build trust in their districts using community policing.

Fundamentally, community policing is a proactive partnership with citizens to address public safety issues that induce crime, fear and social disorder. It involves police transparency and collective problem-solving where police engage with residents outside of typical law enforcement interactions to address worrisome conditions.

When it works well, the practice helps community members assist police in controlling crime in their neighborhoods. Residents feel valued and validated, and they are invested in the actions and outcomes, rather than feeling that officers only enforce laws with aggressive actions, such as bullying, handcuffs, guns and abuse.

But, with headlines dominated by incidents such as the shooting death of Trayvon Martin and the unrest in Ferguson, Mo., relationships between police and the residents of the neighborhoods they protect — particularly minority communities — have become strained.

Nationally, the number of cases where students have been arrested for incidents on campus are plentiful.

One such case in Baltimore parallels the one in Murfreesboro, where four students younger than 10 were arrested at school for an incident that occurred off campus.

In the 2012 case, Baltimore city police charged four elementary school students with aggravated assault after a fight and were arrested on the Morrell Park Elementary/Middle School campus, according to WBAL-TV.

The American Civil Liberties Union said they were outraged by actions of the officers involved, according to reports. The police department, however, defended their actions saying when there is an arrest that it’s their policy to arrest the individual, regardless of the age, according to Baltimore’s WJZ TV.

In Tennessee, police departments set their own policies and procedures for detaining a student, according to Maggi Duncan, executive director of the Tennessee Association of Chiefs of Police.

The number of incidents involving young children arrested doesn't raise eyebrows among societal experts.

"Unfortunately, I am not surprised," said Victor Rios, professor of sociology at University of California Santa Barbara. Rios is author of the book Punished: Policing the Lives of Black and Latino Boys (NYU Press, 2011) and analyzes how juvenile crime policies and criminalization affect the everyday lives of urban youth.

Nationally, Rios said, experts see the collapse of school-based discipline, with educational systems relying more on criminal justice-based punishment where a teacher may call or text a school resource officer for a fistfight or even a spitball flung across the room. In the 1970s, less than 30 percent of high schools across the country had school resource officers, but today 70 percent of schools do, Rios said.

And students often get mixed messages. They are taught to be active bystanders, but then are punished when they don't step in.

"It's counterproductive," Rios said. "It's teaching them the reverse. You can’t teach people to be peacemakers by violating their own peace, threatening them and making them feel terrified.

"It's time this behavior towards children and young people stop."

Walker agrees: "Yes, this is righteous anger," Walker said. "They are looking for solutions. Looking for accountability.

"Those of us who continue to work tirelessly at bringing the community together to deal with these difficult issues feel a tremendous blow has come to the work we attempted to do."

So what comes next?

Children should be exposed to what Rios calls restorative justice. Instead of calling police, kids who are caught engaging in or watching a fight and not stopping it should be approached by a facilitator — something known in the business world as conflict resolution and in the therapy world as group therapy. Kids should be asked what happened and then help them learn the lesson: "Hey, you didn’t stop that fight," Rios said. "Let's talk about that. What can you do to improve?"

And in the community, what can be done to improve there?

"Really, it takes leadership," said Gary Howard, an educator with more than 40 years of experience working with issues of civil rights, social justice and diversity, including 28 years as the founder of the REACH Center for Multicultural Education in Seattle.

Leadership, he said, from police, the black community, the white community, public officers and officials.

"Rather than it being a race-based contentious issue, we as a community have to learn from and with each other so we can not just heal this situation but the larger issues that this situation touches.

"The worst thing to do is blame and denial. Trying to blame kids, police, anybody."

Being proactive together, he said, could be a catalyst for conversation and a catalyst for growth within the community. A coalition of concern.

Contributing: Jason Gonzales and Brian Wilson.



What an absolutely wacky story. I also hasten to add a comment I read elsewhere - in the US, we've established that the police have no duty to protect citizens, but apparently 11 year olds do.

The hell, guys?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/20 13:21:36


 lord_blackfang wrote:
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Yeah, this just seems wrong.

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This is the crazy part money shot, as it were:

It remains unclear exactly how many children were arrested. State law prohibits the release of juvenile law enforcement records, and police have denied a media request for the information. Murfreesboro police didn't say what state law the kids violated, but parents of several of the arrested children say the kids were charged with "criminal responsibility for conduct of another," which according to Tennessee criminal offense code includes incidents when a "person fails to make a reasonable effort to prevent" an offense.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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I have a feeling there is more to this story...

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Norwalk, Connecticut

Wait, so kids get taught that getting involved in a fight will get you thrown out of school, even if you're trying to stop it.
But now the "law" is saying 11 year-olds have to try to stop fights, or they'll be arrested. First of all, neither of these rulings make sense. And all they're doing is confusing the hell out of the kids (and parents, and people on the Internet, and probably the animals).

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I have a feeling there is more to this story...


I would certainly hope so! Because it's pretty crazypants as it lays.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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Gathering the Informations.

 Ouze wrote:
What an absolutely wacky story. I also hasten to add a comment I read elsewhere - in the US, we've established that the police have no duty to protect citizens, but apparently 11 year olds do.

The hell, guys?

I hate to say it, but there's a difference between "duty to protect"(which is what you're referring to) and what the article claims that the kids have been charged with.
Murfreesboro police didn't say what state law the kids violated, but parents of several of the arrested children say the kids were charged with "criminal responsibility for conduct of another," which according to Tennessee criminal offense code includes incidents when a "person fails to make a reasonable effort to prevent" an offense.


It kinda sounds like this was a situation where kids arranged a fight off campus to ensure that nobody knew about it, and the kids that were arrested might have actually been present at the fight.
   
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This is insane. Why would you even handcuff a 6 year old? And arrested for such a slowed, silly reason? Here we have laws protecting kids from this kind of police behaviour. Though luck to you guys on the other side of the pond. The more time I spend on Dakka, the more the US starts to sound like some kind of dystopian police state
Makes me happy to live in the civilised world

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The Great State of Texas

Nothing about this story is sane, legally or otherwise. The Feds need to jump on this and pronto.

Arresting...elementary school kids. Lots of people need to be fired...NOW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 14:05:27


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Is it weird that before opening this thread I was thinking "Please be in England. Please be in England!". I didn't want this to be yet another boneheaded thing in the US.

Can't win 'em all I guess.

... social justice experts...




Well that's a word I never thought I'd see at the end of 'social justice'. Needed a good laugh.

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Gathering the Informations.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Wait, so kids get taught that getting involved in a fight will get you thrown out of school, even if you're trying to stop it.
But now the "law" is saying 11 year-olds have to try to stop fights, or they'll be arrested. First of all, neither of these rulings make sense. And all they're doing is confusing the hell out of the kids (and parents, and people on the Internet, and probably the animals).

Without knowing everything about the situation? It's kind of difficult to actually discuss the topic without going into speculation

We know that 10 kids were arrested, and the article makes a mention that 5 of the 10 were black and that they were between the ages of 6 to 11.

IF I had to make a wild shot in the dark? These 10 kids were arrested because they were actually present at the fight and might have recorded it or posted about it on social media. Hence the "criminal responsibility for conduct of another" charges being handed out, as the kids arrested could (if the article is correct) be seen as having fostered the ability for the fight to happen.

Why? If those kids knew where the fight was going to happen and didn't inform an adult but instead showed up themselves at the fight--they allowed the fight to happen. There's no real good parallel to that beyond stupid stuff like letting someone who is visibly intoxicated drive home when you're in the same car as them and sober.
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.

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Kildare, Ireland

I'd want to see the video before I make up my mind. There's a lot of ambiguous language used to describe what was going on.

Sounds suspicious that they'd use handcuffs on kids though, did the kids present a threat?
   
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USA

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.


Well if that's the case, they might want to jump to making their case cause right now it looks kind of ludicrous XD

   
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The Great State of Texas

 =Angel= wrote:
I'd want to see the video before I make up my mind. There's a lot of ambiguous language used to describe what was going on.

Sounds suspicious that they'd use handcuffs on kids though, did the kids present a threat?


THEY ARRESTED A SIX YEAR OLD.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Gathering the Informations.

 LordofHats wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.


Well if that's the case, they might want to jump to making their case cause right now it looks kind of ludicrous XD

That's the problem with law enforcement agencies versus parents speaking on anonymity.

LEAs can't really discuss an ongoing investigation--especially if it concerns minors.
Parents? Parents will and can say whatever the hell they want to the media.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
 =Angel= wrote:
I'd want to see the video before I make up my mind. There's a lot of ambiguous language used to describe what was going on.

Sounds suspicious that they'd use handcuffs on kids though, did the kids present a threat?


THEY ARRESTED A SIX YEAR OLD.

What, six year olds can't commit crimes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 14:44:19


 
   
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The Great State of Texas

 Kanluwen wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.


Well if that's the case, they might want to jump to making their case cause right now it looks kind of ludicrous XD

That's the problem with law enforcement agencies versus parents speaking on anonymity.

LEAs can't really discuss an ongoing investigation--especially if it concerns minors.
Parents? Parents will and can say whatever the hell they want to the media.


Please demonstrate how ARRESTING A SIX YEAR OLD comes out right in this circumstance. The concept shatters sanity. Unless the six year old is reincarnated Machine Gun Kelly, replete with Tommy Gun, this makes no sense.

Lets remember, in the US adults generally have no obligation to help, and if doing so involves battery, thats highly illegal. What is a 6 year old supposed to do? We have entered the land f the cray cray and this crap has to stop.

What, six year olds can't commit crimes?

to quote the mechanic: Well there's your problem right there.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/20 14:55:18


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Frazzled wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.


Well if that's the case, they might want to jump to making their case cause right now it looks kind of ludicrous XD

That's the problem with law enforcement agencies versus parents speaking on anonymity.

LEAs can't really discuss an ongoing investigation--especially if it concerns minors.
Parents? Parents will and can say whatever the hell they want to the media.


Please demonstrate how ARRESTING A SIX YEAR OLD comes out right in this circumstance. The concept shatters sanity.

I didn't say it was right Frazzled, but it's not beyond belief to arrest a six year old in this situation based upon what little information there is to go on.

Additionally, I kinda have a hard time believing they'd handcuff a 6 year old but the 11 year olds? Yeah I could see that.
   
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USA

While your point is taken Kanluwen, I don't think that really justifies the picture that is currently painted, or gives me cause not to ask "what is this all about?"

   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Kanluwen wrote:
[Hence the "criminal responsibility for conduct of another" charges being handed out, as the kids arrested could (if the article is correct) be seen as having fostered the ability for the fight to happen


By this logic, the guy who recorded the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death should be arrested for murder.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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Gathering the Informations.

 LordofHats wrote:
While your point is taken Kanluwen, I don't think that really justifies the picture that is currently painted, or gives me cause not to ask "what is this all about?"

And really the long and short of it is that until actual information gets released about why/what happened with the fight?

You're gonna end up continuing to ask that question sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
[Hence the "criminal responsibility for conduct of another" charges being handed out, as the kids arrested could (if the article is correct) be seen as having fostered the ability for the fight to happen


By this logic, the guy who recorded the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death should be arrested for murder.

Not necessarily. "Criminal responsibility for the conduct of another" likely assumes that you have a measure of influence or control over the situation.

In no reasonable way, shape, or form beyond assaulting the NYPD officers could the guy who recorded the Eric Garner death have influenced the outcome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 14:52:26


 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is it weird that before opening this thread I was thinking "Please be in England. Please be in England!". I didn't want this to be yet another boneheaded thing in the US.


My reaction exactly. I am already depressed by the bad stories I get from Germany and France. But the US is just a whole different world in terms of frequency and absurdity of life.



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 Frazzled wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a similar law of criminal reponsibility in the UK, where a gang can be arrested and charged with murder by joint enterprise because some of its members attack and murder a person while the rest of the gang stands around not trying to stop the murder.

Perhaps something similar is supposed to have happened here.


Well if that's the case, they might want to jump to making their case cause right now it looks kind of ludicrous XD

That's the problem with law enforcement agencies versus parents speaking on anonymity.

LEAs can't really discuss an ongoing investigation--especially if it concerns minors.
Parents? Parents will and can say whatever the hell they want to the media.


Please demonstrate how ARRESTING A SIX YEAR OLD comes out right in this circumstance. The concept shatters sanity. Unless the six year old is reincarnated Machine Gun Kelly, replete with Tommy Gun, this makes no sense.

Lets remember, in the US adults generally have no obligation to help, and if doing so involves battery, thats highly illegal. What is a 6 year old supposed to do? We have entered the land f the cray cray and this crap has to stop.

What, six year olds can't commit crimes?

to quote the mechanic: Well there's your problem right there.

I'm with the old man here...

But, I'm reserving further judgement until we hear more about it... but on it's face, this is fething nuts.

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The kids are lucky they weren't shot by the cops for resisting arrest.







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The Great State of Texas

Thats probably why they did it at school. Try serving a warrant to a six year to their parents and there might be a whole lot of dead cops.

Most Dads I know...well you'd have to take away their six year old over their dead body and plenty of your own.

What the Wife would do...shudder...could only be described as a warcrime in most civilized countries.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 16:52:19


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Gathering the Informations.

Yeah yeah yeah, tough talk and bravado.

Reality is if the cops served a warrant on a 6 year old, there'd be whining about how the kid was a perfect little angel and yet the parents couldn't say where little Jimmy was the day before.
There wouldn't be piles of dead cops or parents going all John Wick on people. They'd be crying and threatening to call a lawyer, but they'd comply.

Additionally, the reality as to why they did the arrests at school?
Because it lets them get all of the kids at once in one place and lets them have an opportunity to talk to the kids with the school administration getting involved as well.
Minors can't talk to cops without a parent; nothing stopping them from talking to a principal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/20 17:16:29


 
   
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Iron_Captain wrote:This is insane. Why would you even handcuff a 6 year old? And arrested for such a slowed, silly reason? Here we have laws protecting kids from this kind of police behaviour. Though luck to you guys on the other side of the pond. The more time I spend on Dakka, the more the US starts to sound like some kind of dystopian police state
Makes me happy to live in the civilised world


treslibras wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is it weird that before opening this thread I was thinking "Please be in England. Please be in England!". I didn't want this to be yet another boneheaded thing in the US.


My reaction exactly. I am already depressed by the bad stories I get from Germany and France. But the US is just a whole different world in terms of frequency and absurdity of life.



Keep in mind that even for the US this incident is both rare and absurd. Also that the US has 5x the population of the UK and 2.2x that of Russia...so dumb gak will happen *somewhere* pretty much all the time.


That said, stuff involving US public schools always borders on the absurd, with braindead zero tolerance policies and schools assuming they are in control of children from when they leave their door in the morning to when they step back through the door in the evening, and gobs of internal and mainstream politics involved

However, this incident is *far* beyond the norm even for the US and the reason its making news is exactly because it is so absurd.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 17:21:46


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Shouldn't we be asking:
Where was the good guy with the concealed carry to break this up?

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Unless there's something more about this, sounds like some cop just really, really, really wanted to arrest a bunch of (black) kids for kicks.

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