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Hey guys. So for an upcoming tournament I want to create a nice Deathstar. I played Lions Blade Strike Force for quite some time but I just want to go back to my Bikers Plus I love Ravenwing and Iron Hands and I am sure that there is a way to glue them together...I am just no fan of Space Wolves

Limitations are 2 Factions and 3 Detachements, which so far are filled with the following

Dark Angels CAD

Interrogator Chaplain, Bike, Power Fist, Auspex, Eye of the Unseen
Sammael

Ravenwing Command Squad, 6x, Apothecary

2x 5 Scouts

Azrael


Iron Hands Allied Detachment

Chapter Master, Bike, Gorgons Chain, Thunderhammer, Artificier Armour

5 Scouts


Iron Hands - Librarian Conclace Formation
Psyker lvl 2, Bike
Psyker lvl 2, Bike
Psyker lvl 2, Bike

This basically leaves me 225 points to spare. I am not sure about the Dark Angels HQ choices so far (Since Sammael is EW, he really can tank but the Interrogator with Zealot is just awesome) and I am thinking about adding a Techmarine on bike since it doesn't use a Force Org Slot for Iron Hands.
The idea behind this list is easy: Big blob with 4++ and FnP (4+ for Iron Hands Characters). Psychic Powers rolling for veil of time (save rerolls) and electrodisplacement.

Must haves for this lists are Azrael, Chapter Master, Scouts, Librarius Conclave.

I am thinking about getting another black knights blob (8-10) and let Azrael jump between both Bike Blobs to secure either one of them.

So, any ideas on how to make Iron Hands and Ravenwing work?

cheers

Another squad of Black Knights would be awesome as well. Depending on what psychic powers you get you can buff either/both units.

Keep in mind too with Azzy, that you pick the Rapid Maneuvre warlord trait otherwise he won't be able to keep up with the 12"-inch-movement units.

Have you considered a Techmarine with the Thunderfire Cannon? They are pretty efficient.

Yeah, keeping azzy in coherency is a problem. But I will not go for "rapid manouvre" (although thats a good plan B ) but for "hold at all costs" to get the FnP when in 3 inch range of an objective. Since the Stars will be big enough and are able to be stretched out to a certain degree, I get a guaranteed FnP if I put Azzy in a normal BK Squad without Apothecarian or if the Apo from the command squad gets snipered out by a precision shot. This lets the Iron Hands ICs keep their better FnP as well if something happens to the Apo.
A Thunderfire is definetly a good idea, a Techmarine on bike as well since they can dish out quite the hurt.

Keep sammael and 2 attack bikes go rw detachment, drop all the other RW stuff and bring the medusa strike force with the strike force command for the chapter master and sm command squad. With 5 ss you won't need azrael, the chaplain isn't worth it, and sammael gives you all the rules you need. With these 2 detachment plus taxes you should be looking at 1400 points wish, you could either get another CM with shield eternal or squeeze in a company of the great wolf for some strength 10.

Wolves won't work since only 2 Factions are allowed. I play around with the idea of a Medusa Strike Force but I can't get a grip on a good balance of putting points into core and auxilliaries. When building a tar they just seem like an extreme amount of taxes though the IC traits are awesome.

I played Ezekiel with a Ravenwing mini death star at Adepticon. (The +1 attack aura surprised a lot of people.) There are some extra things you should keep in mind and ask your TO about when combining infantry and bike unit types.

RAW i think infantry in a bike unit should Scout 12" because the Scout rule only take about units not models, but Adepticon ruled that infantry Scout only 6". He doesn't hold back the bikes tho.

But He may hold back the bikes when charging. If the infantry model charges through difficult terrain, does the entire unit subtract 2 inches? Ask your TO.

I think a second black knight deathstar is a good shout - I think there are limits to what any one unit can do! Should easily be able to get two extremely dangerous units at 1850pts

FrequentRespawn wrote:
Wolves won't work since only 2 Factions are allowed. I play around with the idea of a Medusa Strike Force but I can't get a grip on a good balance of putting points into core and auxilliaries. When building a tar they just seem like an extreme amount of taxes though the IC traits are awesome.

Here's the thing, the cheapest core+aux for the IH is only 430 points and gives you excellent, extremely fast, anti horde (POTMS on whirlwinds means 12 inch moves at full BS) and a dreadnought, which while not great, is something that can easily slip under the radar. That + the blob should leave you enough points for at least another command squad or something for some extra grav.

In exchange for that 430 points, you can drop Azrael, who's entire purpose is to be a TERRIBLE version of forewarning, and the Ravenwing Command squad, which isn't as good as an SM command squad(Can't kill itself with plasma, gets grav, is obsec if you take a demi company, easy 3++ invul, still has 2++rerollable Jink and scout with Sammael).

Would you rather have a blob with 2+rerollable jink, 3++invul, 3++ FNP CM getting Guaranteed 2+ FNP and 2 shots at infiltrate (which would be hilarious) and 15 Grav Shots that can always move 12 and can Turboboost or a blob with 2+rerollable jink, 4++ Invul, 5+ FNP 12 Plasma shots that will most likely kill at least 1 of your own guys over the course of the game No Turbo Boost, limited movement and a CM stuck with a lousy 3+FNP.

Without Space wolves as a third option, you just don't have the tools in the RW command squad build to kill everything that needs killing, RW against a WK you do no wounds shooting because you jinked, and get stomped out because you can't kill it till I1, IH Command against a WK you kill it in shooting turn 1 and laugh off one turn of their shooting, not bothering to jink because you have a 2+3++2+++character out front with a couple of mooks to tank D shots that get through.

Sammael confers Skilled Rider to other bikers, but his Ravenwing jink reroll does not confer. Also the jink would be 3+ not 2+ unless they get Stealth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Azrael doesn't prevent bikes in his unit from turbo boosting.

Well the POTMS on the Whirlwinds is a great deal no doubt, so they at least get usuable...ish. I love Whirlwinds but I tend to find that they are way to easy to kill and basically no one plays Hordes anymore. And Warpsiders aren't afraid of them.
Well, the SM Command Squad is great in combination with Sammael (skilled rider) the storm shields (with psychic 3++ rerollable) and obsec but way less scary in Close Combat since Corvus Hammer are just insane against anything. I love the Plasma but your statement does make a lot of sense.

On the other hand I would love to include some of my 24 Black Knights since I had quite a success with them at a tournament. I combined them with just the Chapter Master but against something like Tau the dude was not able to tank everything

okay so I played around with your guys input

Medusa Strike Force

Core: Armoured Task Force
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Techmarike, Bike

Aux: 10th Company task Force
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
5x Scouts

Command: Librarius Conclave
Lvl 2 Librarian, Bike
Lvl 2 Librarian, Bike
Lvl 2 Librarian, Bike

Command: Strike Force Command
Chapter Master, Bike, Artificier Armour, Thunderhammer, Gorgons Chain
Command Squad, 5 Veterans, 1 Apothecary Upgrade, Bikes, 5 Stormshields

Ravenwing Strike Force
Sammael
Interrogator Chaplain, Bike, Eye of the Unseen

Attack Bike, Multimelta
Attack Bike, Multimelta


There was a moment when I thought I try out the Stormlance Battle Company to get some nice Special rules plus Cataphractii goodness with Grav-Devs. But pointswise it gets quickly out of hand. So, what do we got here? classic deathstar, techmarine, chaptermaster, libbies, Sammael, Interrogator and Vet Squad with Stormshields and apo. as stated in the first post i am going for save rerolls and, which is way more important, electrodisplacement. this is why I choose scouts over the cheaper dreanought since i need units that I can swap with to get the into charge range (which is 3" longer thanks to sammy). the interrogator brings zealot and and the eye of the unseen, so preferred enemy for the whole squad.
Counting all those points I got about 200 points left for upgrades. any ideas? comments?
cheers

Give Smashfether a Lightning Claw at least if you have points left. One other thing to love about Gravguns is the Concussive effect, consider adding a few to the command squad.

Good point. What kind of melee weapons for the command squad make sense? I used to play Dark Angels and using Corvus Hammer but theres no such thing for the normal Command Squad. I always have in mind that I have to melee down a Wraithknight before he stomps since a 6 means end of game for the whole star.

Okay, playtested it against Eldar/Tau. Lots of SCatpacks, Buffmander with drones, Stormsurge, D Cannons. basically all that good stuff sans warithguard and knight.

Sons of Medusa
Core: ARmoured Task Force
3x1 Whirlwind
Techmarine, Bike

Auxilliary: 10th Company
3x5 Scouts

Command
Librarius Conclave
3 Librarians, lvl 2, bike, power axe

Strike Force Command
Chapter Master, Bike, Artificer armour, Gorgons Chain, Thunderhammer, Lightning claw

Command Squad
4x Veteran, Storm Shield, Power Fist, Bike
Apo

Ravenwing Strike Force
HQ
Sammael
Interrogator Chaplain, Bike, Eye of the unseen, power fist

Fast Attack
Attack Bike
Attack Bike


Went for Electrodisplacement and Veil of Time just to test it. Its good, but invis is plain better, simply because template weapons can't target you. Electrodisplacment is just awesome. although eldar had an inquisitor with them and three skulls (so no scout), i swapped positions with an attack bike which i got upfield and thanks to sammael and his +3 inch charge trait the first scatpack got send to abyss turn 1.
I got quite lucky with 6 D cannon shots over the game of which none were sixes as well as 6 stomps from the stormsurge (which I killed in CC).
Maelstrom was tied, I won Eternal War and tertiary.
Sammael and the Chaplain are insanely good for this kind of list. Preferred enemy and zealot is insane, as is sammies warlord trait and eternal warrior. The amount of power fists is something I am thinking about but all in all the list is fun (drive whirlwinds for 12 inches and still shoot thanks to potms^^) and extremely resilient .

So, anyone got additional ideas to tweak the list?

I kinda get the feeling that although a lot of people play Deathstars there are not that many lists to find. Granted at least the same amount of people hate those lists. So I am really just looking for ideas for tournaments, NOT to play against friends (I am not an animal! ). I'd love to see some ideas getting the best out of Iron Hands and Ravenwing/Dark Angels.

I playtested the weird stormlance battle company from angels of death as a core choice for a friendly game. They were great for a friendly match since this kind of BC sucks. No obsec makes the game extremely hard against most armies and that core choice really does not do anything with the chapter tactics. So this will most definetly not find a way into a competitive list.

I also tried several stars without a conclave and max out techmarines in rder ot form 2 somewhat themed starrs. iron hands command squad and ravenwing cmmand squad. Which is fun, but far away from optimal.


SO: anyone out there with good ideas for a decent combo?