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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

http://theadvocate.com/news/15543712-171/louisiana-legislature-considers-hate-crime-protections-for-police-firefighters

Louisiana would be among the first states to make it a hate crime to target police officers and firefighters, if legislation that is being pushed at the State Capitol this session is successful.

Supporters argue that new protections are needed for law enforcement because of recent cases of targeted crimes against first responders. Meanwhile, critics say the effort is unnecessary and distracts from the point of hate crime laws.

House Bill 953, which would expand the state hate crime law and ultimately increase penalties for certain crimes that target law enforcement and firefighters in Louisiana, passed through a state House committee on Wednesday after little discussion.

“We have a pretty extensive hate crime law right now, but I believe we should add firefighters and policemen,” said Rep. Lance Harris, an Alexandria Republican pushing the bill.

HB953 still has to be taken up by the full House and would also have to be vetted by the Senate before it could become law.

The push here appears to mimic a national movement afoot, though. At least one bill has been proposed at the Congressional level to add law enforcement to the federal hate crimes statute. It is dubbed the “Blue Lives Matter” bill, in contrast to the “Black Lives Matter” advocacy effort that has drawn attention to violence against African-Americans, particularly at the hands of law enforcement.

Harris cited several high-profile attacks on first responders in making his case for the state version of the bill Wednesday. Those same cases frequently make lists of cases that illustrate tensions in race relations and relations between the public and law enforcement.

Perhaps the most well-known recent case: New York City officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were fatally shot in 2014 by a gunman who had posted on Instagram that he wanted to put “wings on pigs” after the death of Eric Garner, a man who died in a highly-publicized police chokehold incident in New York.

Harris mentioned the case of a suburban Houston sheriff’s deputy was shot 15 times at a gas station last fall. Police have alleged that the ambush took place because the victim was a law enforcement officer, though the gunman’s lawyers have disputed that motive.

In Florida in 2014, firefighters were targeted in a high-profile drive-by shooting, and Harris said similar cases have popped up across the country.

“For no reason, shots were fired at these firefighters because they were public servants,” he said.

No one spoke against Harris’ bill during Wednesday’s hearing.

But critics of such efforts here and elsewhere say hate crime laws traditionally have been reserved for traits like race, gender, religion, nationality or sexual orientation, and aren’t meant to be extended to occupations.

Under current Louisiana law, hate crime charges can be brought in some criminal cases in which the victim is targeted based on race, age, gender, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, creed, sexual orientation or organizational affiliation.

“It’s really focused on immutable characteristics,” said Allison Goodman, regional director for the Anti-Defamation League’s office in Metairie. “Proving the bias intent for a hate crime for law enforcement or first responders is very different than proving it for someone who is Jewish or gay or black.”

Under Louisiana’s hate crime statute, people convicted of felonies against protected classes face an additional five years in prison and up to $5,000 fine. In misdemeanor cases, the hate crime statute increases penalties by $500 or up to six months in prison.

HB953 would add those same increased penalties for any victim who is targeted based upon his or her actual or perceived employment as a law enforcement officer or firefighter.

Goodman said that the ADL — one of the nation’s leading advocates for hate crime legislation — supports law enforcement but disagrees with the push to expand hate crimes to cover first responders. She compared it to Maine’s hate crime law that includes people who are homeless.

“We don’t think that’s a category that should be included because people move in and out of being homeless,” she said. “The same would be said for law enforcement.”

“It’s not something we could recommend,” she added.

Louisiana law already provides for increase penalties for crimes against active peace officers. Goodman said such enhanced penalty efforts offer a better route for states and don’t take away from the intent of hate crime laws.

On the national scene, the effort to add the new hate crime statutes for law enforcement is backed by the nation’s largest police union. Chuck Canterbury, national president for the Fraternal Order of Police, has argued that the extension is needed because of what he sees as a growing anti-police sentiment in the wake of controversial deaths by law enforcement in Ferguson, Missouri, and elsewhere.

“Our members are being increasingly under fire by individuals motivated by nothing more than a desire to kill or injure a cop,” Canterbury said in a statement last month. “There is a very real and very deliberate campaign to terrorize our nation’s law enforcement officers.”

Bryan McCann, a professor at LSU whose work focuses on race relations and crime, questioned the motives of adding the additional protections to first responders. He noted that hate crime laws are specifically designed to focus on characteristics that have made people — particularly minorities — targets in the past, but there is no evidence of increased targeted violence toward law enforcement.

“I have yet to hear a compelling case that law enforcement fits that bill,” he said. “The notion that there is an activist movement out there seeking to kill police officers says more about attitudes of those making these claims.”



Thoughts on this? As noted in the article Louisiana Law (and I'd guess most if not all States' laws) provide for increased penalties for crimes against active peace officers so is this even needed?

It's hard not to nose dive down the Orwellian slippery slope that a law like this could produce.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."

My response? I think someone took this clever little quote a bit too seriously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/21 22:54:39


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






How about ALL lives matter?

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Chicago

As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Ustrello wrote:
As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already

They don't get drawn and quartered, so clearly they aren't getting punished hard enough.
   
Made in us
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Chicago

 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already

They don't get drawn and quartered, so clearly they aren't getting punished hard enough.


Yeah and while we are at it lets beat people with bamboo sticks who commit theft and sew the scarlet A onto women who are promiscuous.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
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Norwalk, Connecticut

 Ustrello wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already

They don't get drawn and quartered, so clearly they aren't getting punished hard enough.


Yeah and while we are at it lets beat people with bamboo sticks who commit theft and sew the scarlet A onto women who are promiscuous.


Branding would be more fun. Which one, you ask? The women or the thieves? To which, I say "yes".

Seriously, I agree with the statement that ALL lives should matter. Except Jar Jar Binks (pre coming out of the Sith-closet), Harry Potter, Prince Joffrey, the Teletubbies, Barney, and Big Bird's crack addicted mother.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

Harry and Joffrey are important figures in their respective worlds. The teletubbies helped me come down safely after a long loooong night out. Didn't know Big Bird had a crackhead mom. The rest can die in a fire.


I don't think that Police need additional protections.

And who is targeting fire fighters?

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

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USA

 feeder wrote:

And who is targeting fire fighters?


Pyromancers obviously.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 feeder wrote:

And who is targeting fire fighters?



I can recall exactly one instance of such a thing occurring..... It was up somewhere in "upstate" NY (as in, it was not NYC... beyond that, I don't know)

A homeowner who turned out to have some issues, apparently set his house to a slow burning fire, set up in a sniper position, called the FD and when they arrived, he waited till one was approaching the house, shot him... then IIRC, he shot a second one before PD got called, the firemen got on the other side of the trucks from where the shots came from, and waited till the police could apprehend him.


Needless to say, the majority of his house burned.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 Ustrello wrote:
As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already


fething A. I would give a cop killer max sentence every time.

Anyhow, my birth state is wrong with this. All crimes, by nature, are hateful. Hate crime is a meaningless distinction.

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Leerstetten, Germany

I was under the impression that most states already have special laws for targeting first responders and the like. I had a guy who punched me at work who was hauled to jail for assaulting an emergency healthcare worker.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 d-usa wrote:
I was under the impression that most states already have special laws for targeting first responders and the like. I had a guy who punched me at work who was hauled to jail for assaulting an emergency healthcare worker.


That may be, but doesn't the "hate crime" tag open up a bunch of doors for prosecution and punishment?

Perhaps the idea here, is to put extra punishment onto these crimes?? I dunno... maybe people making this law think that will act as a deterrent?
   
Made in us
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On moon miranda.

Hrm, I'm extremely leery of special protections or sentence enhancements for what amount to agents of the State. This has all sorts of awkward written all over it.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Perhaps the idea here, is to put extra punishment onto these crimes?? I dunno... maybe people making this law think that will act as a deterrent?


It won't deter someone if they are genuinely bent on hurting or killing the police. It's just another charge to slap on them when they do it.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Perhaps the idea here, is to put extra punishment onto these crimes?? I dunno... maybe people making this law think that will act as a deterrent?


It won't deter someone if they are genuinely bent on hurting or killing the police. It's just another charge to slap on them when they do it.


Lol, I know this, and I know you know this... I am just wondering what the legislators are thinking about it.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I don't know but I don't think people who kill police and fire fighters are in general the kind of people perturbed by a few additional years in prison.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 02:12:28


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I can see this from both sides.

A Hate crime to me is an act of violence or criminal action that is using a hatred of a certain thing as its primary motive for carrying out said action.

So if a guy gets into a fight with another person its just assault. However if that same guy goes out of his way to only beat up black people then it is a hate crime. The idea behind that to me is that the person is obviously not completely there mentally if his sole prerogative for targeting a person is a specific trait like race, gender, sexuality and what not.

So in regards to occupations such as PD and FDs It makes sense. If your going out and targeting public servants specifically because they are public servants to me that is a hate crime.

On the other hand I can see this going horribly wrong in a number of ways in which the lawyers will attempt to label any action against a cop/fireman as a hate crime in order to up the sentence by five years.

So in reality what this boils down to, at least to me, is equality. If its a hate crime to target someone for something specific like gender, race and what not then occupations should be protected by the same law. If not get rid of the law completely.

SIDE NOTE: I honestly think hate crime is a stupid law anyway. I just checked the FBI's database and came up with this.

66.2 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
22.0 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.
4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
3.3 percent were victims of an anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias.

the reason I think this is BS is I have watched a number of crimes committed against other races besides blacks that was clearly a hate crime as defined by the law. IE targeting them based solely on race. These don't get reported as much for some reason, my personal belief is that it goes against the popular narrative that it is only black people that are the victims of hate crimes. Just like a lot of people think racism is a white only trait. Anyway, just my two cents.

 Tomsug wrote:
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





SemperMortis wrote:

On the other hand I can see this going horribly wrong in a number of ways in which the lawyers will attempt to label any action against a cop/fireman as a hate crime in order to up the sentence by five years.

So in reality what this boils down to, at least to me, is equality. If its a hate crime to target someone for something specific like gender, race and what not then occupations should be protected by the same law. If not get rid of the law completely.


the reason I think this is BS is I have watched a number of crimes committed against other races besides blacks that was clearly a hate crime as defined by the law. IE targeting them based solely on race. These don't get reported as much for some reason, my personal belief is that it goes against the popular narrative that it is only black people that are the victims of hate crimes. Just like a lot of people think racism is a white only trait. Anyway, just my two cents.



If I'm completely understanding what you wrote here, I agree with you.... It seems that the label of hate crime can be so selectively used, that it really isn't equally applied in any sense of the word equality.

Of course, reporters often don't have full details of on-going trials, and as such, we the public may not get the clearest picture as to why a person accused of a crime does or does not also face hate crime charges.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

On the other hand I can see this going horribly wrong in a number of ways in which the lawyers will attempt to label any action against a cop/fireman as a hate crime in order to up the sentence by five years.

So in reality what this boils down to, at least to me, is equality. If its a hate crime to target someone for something specific like gender, race and what not then occupations should be protected by the same law. If not get rid of the law completely.


the reason I think this is BS is I have watched a number of crimes committed against other races besides blacks that was clearly a hate crime as defined by the law. IE targeting them based solely on race. These don't get reported as much for some reason, my personal belief is that it goes against the popular narrative that it is only black people that are the victims of hate crimes. Just like a lot of people think racism is a white only trait. Anyway, just my two cents.



If I'm completely understanding what you wrote here, I agree with you.... It seems that the label of hate crime can be so selectively used, that it really isn't equally applied in any sense of the word equality.

Of course, reporters often don't have full details of on-going trials, and as such, we the public may not get the clearest picture as to why a person accused of a crime does or does not also face hate crime charges.
'

Essentially yes, we are on the same page more or less Either protect everyone equally or get rid of the law as it is ridiculous anyway.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
I was under the impression that most states already have special laws for targeting first responders and the like. I had a guy who punched me at work who was hauled to jail for assaulting an emergency healthcare worker.


That may be, but doesn't the "hate crime" tag open up a bunch of doors for prosecution and punishment?

Perhaps the idea here, is to put extra punishment onto these crimes?? I dunno... maybe people making this law think that will act as a deterrent?

Nah.

It's a bill being pushed by Republicans and the title of the bill/reference being "Blue Lives Matter" says that it's all about political pandering. They know that there's already significant punishments in place for targeting first responders and they're trying to push this bill out there as a way of point scoring with their voter base(Republicans tend to be all about law enforcement unless it's something that's going to affect them).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
I was under the impression that most states already have special laws for targeting first responders and the like. I had a guy who punched me at work who was hauled to jail for assaulting an emergency healthcare worker.


That may be, but doesn't the "hate crime" tag open up a bunch of doors for prosecution and punishment?

Perhaps the idea here, is to put extra punishment onto these crimes?? I dunno... maybe people making this law think that will act as a deterrent?

Nah.

It's a bill being pushed by Republicans and the title of the bill/reference being "Blue Lives Matter" says that it's all about political pandering. They know that there's already significant punishments in place for targeting first responders and they're trying to push this bill out there as a way of point scoring with their voter base(Republicans tend to be all about law enforcement unless it's something that's going to affect them).


And the military, basically the executive branch leans more republican then democrat. I think I saw a study that said something like a bit over 2/3rds of the Officers in the military vote republican.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





SemperMortis wrote:

And the military, basically the executive branch leans more republican then democrat. I think I saw a study that said something like a bit over 2/3rds of the Officers in the military vote republican.


That may be true of the DoD as a whole, but wasn't my experience in the army.

Though this comment does bring to mind the sort of "scandal" the Air Force went through recently when there was serious pressure for a certain branch of the officer corps. to be a particular brand of christian above and beyond any other oaths of commission (IIRC, it was the branch that controls the nuclear bombers/missiles?)
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

The Officer Corp is most definitely Conservative, not just politically but by it's very nature (army brat of a retired full bird Colonel). It helps that the South and American Mid-West have very long traditions of military service, and the upper class of America are very very active in the the Army and Air Force ranks. It swings things that way

   
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So if a PoC, transgender police officer is attacked is that three hate crimes?

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
So if a PoC, transgender police officer is attacked is that three hate crimes?


The hate crimes Trifecta?

We had a guest speaker at my school this past year who was talking about some, negative reactions, to his speech and he said; "I am Black, Jewish, and Gay. I am your worst nightmare."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/22 04:42:41


   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
So if a PoC, transgender police officer is attacked is that three hate crimes?

No.
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Louisiana's existing hate crime laws cover the police and firemen so the only apparent reason for proposing a Blue Lives Matter law would seem to be connected with a backlash against the Black Lives Matter civil rights movement.

http://law.justia.com/codes/louisiana/2006/146/78262.html

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The Great State of Texas

 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
As if people who commit against police and firefighters aren't punished to the max already

They don't get drawn and quartered, so clearly they aren't getting punished hard enough.


Indeed. In most jurisdictions, intentionally shooting at the PoPo meets the criteria for the highest level of murder sentences: life or the needle.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Catskills in NYS

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Louisiana's existing hate crime laws cover the police and firemen so the only apparent reason for proposing a Blue Lives Matter law would seem to be connected with a backlash against the Black Lives Matter civil rights movement.

http://law.justia.com/codes/louisiana/2006/146/78262.html

Oh, wonderful, so it is just bs.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
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 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
 
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