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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Peeps,

Recently joined the forum and gotten back into 40k!

As it happens I haven't officially played since........
2004 it's been a while..

I've recently had a couple of casual games against orks and spacemarines, beat the orks 2/3 spacemarines rolled me hard in 3 turns.. Grab guns, wow?

Here's my army list:

Chaos list
HQ
------------
Bel'akor
------------
------------
Sorcerer
Term armour
Master x 2
Spell familiar
-------------
-------------
Sorcerer
Mastery x 2
Spell familiar
-------------
-------------
Troops
-------------
Chaos squad x 5
Heavy bolter
-------------
-------------
Chaos squad x 5
Flamer
Cc weapons
Mok
-------------
-------------
Rhino
Havoc launcher
-------------
-------------
Fast attack
-------------
Raptors x 5
Flamer x 2
Mark of Khorne
-------------
-------------
Raptors x 5
Meltagun x 2
Mark of Khorne
-------------
-------------
Heavy
-------------
Landraider
-------------
-------------
Talons
Mark of Khorne
-------------
-------------
1500
-------------

It's bang on the money 1500 points, talons aren't great I know.. Will be subbing them out.

Would love some opinions, currently painting 40 cultists 5 man terms (various options), chaos Lord and a heldrake.

What would you suggest with the models I'm finishing up and the ones I've got?

Is there anything semi competitive I can make here?

Any help I can get would be really appreciated!!
   
Made in au
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





1st, Talons are fast, not heavy. And yes, they are bad.
2nd, Organise your list into something easier to read, you'll get more responses.
3rd, not really, it's a CSM list, you're going to get rolled hard by anyone that wants to

There's half a dozen threads here arguing about what's good, passable and terrible for CSM, but the long and the short of it is (general consensus) that Sorcerors, Belakor, Juggerlord and Nurgle Fist/Claw biker are your only options for HQ, min Cultists or min plague marines with 2 special in a rhino are your troops, then you have at least some choice (spam heldrakes, spam Oblits, AV12 rush).

Heldrakes, Spawn, Oblits, Maulerfiends all do OK in large numbers but the elites section is a wasteland with only suicide termies worth your time (though some people have had limited success with multiple helbrutes in an AV12 rush list), FA is the most contested slot since it's got heldrakes and spawn (though some people can make bikers work as a decent substitute for spawn) and HS basically has Autocannon havoks and Obliterators and not much else.

If your meta allows forgeworld, IA13 has some nice stuff in there, but you're still going to get your face kicked in by the top tier armies.

Allying with daemons can help, but eventually you run more and more daemons and less and less CSM until you've got a daemon list with belakor, 10 cultists and a heldrake tacked on and it's really not CSM anymore.

350 - Belakor
150 - Sorc, ML3, Termie armour, Spell Familiar
125 - Sorc, ML3, Spell familiar
85 - 5x CSM, Heavy Bolter
147 - 5x CSM, Flamer, CCW, MoK, Rhino, Havok launcher
115 - 5x Raptors, 2x Flamer, MoK
125 - 5x Raptors, 2x Melta, Mok
160 - 5x Warp Talons
230 - Land Raider

1505

So, you're illegal because you're over points (but only by 5) and because you can't take a heavy weapon in a CSM unit at 5 men (Special at 5, 2nd special or a heavy at 10).

Dropping that heavy bolter for a flamer solves both of the first 2 problems. Also, heavy bolters are terrible, don't take them. Ever. On anything.

You've got 3 HQ's, so you're unbound. Not really a problem, but some folks aren't a fan of unbound.

I'm going to come out and say it now, even if it's not what you want to hear, everything in your army list bar Belakor and the Sorceror without terminator armour is bad (and even then the sorc can use some tweaking).

The only thing in your army that can touch AV11 is the pair of melta guns on raptors and the lascannons on the 'Raider. The 'Raider should be going flat out turn 1 and the melta guns are too short ranged, so you're not achieving anything against vehicle in turns 2 or maybe even 3 depending on board and deployment. You've got heavy support slots open though, so I'd suggest filling those with obliterators as first port of call.

Those marine troops aren't going to achieve much, so trade them out for the cultists you're painting. 2x squads of 10 is 100 points, you don't want more than a minimum since they're just going to go to ground on an objective and not do anything all game but try to stay out of LoS.

I'd suggest getting the heldrake up and running next, it's the best unit in the dex IMHO. Always give it the baleflamer, no exceptions.

MoK isn't usually worth it, since it doesn't help survivability like MoN or MoT, doesn't give you FNP access like MoS and getting to the fight is usually the biggest problem.

So, what have we got so far?

350 - Belakor
150 - Sorceror, ML3, Spell familiar, Sigil of Corruption
50 - 10x Cultists
50 - 10x Cultists

That's 600 points and a bound army. Now you can add back in the remaining models to achieve stuff. The terminator Sorc doesn't really have anywhere to go, so he's out for the moment. Obviously we want the heldrake, and you're going to need something to pop vehicles with so:

170 - Heldrake
115 - 5x Raptors, 2x Melta
115 - 5x Raptors, 2x Melta

You can easily counts as those flamers as melta guns and it's easy to switch between the 2 (as long as you know who you're playing).

That brings us to 1000 on the dot. To be honest, I wouldn't be taking anything else you've got so far, so my suggestion would be to play 1000 point games until you pick up more stuff. You can add in termies and a 10 man CSM squad in a rhino, but they're not really going to achieve much and it just gives your opponent more points to counter yours if you start taking junk that won't pull its weight.

I'd suggest MoN Oblits as your next purchase, run them 1 to a heavy support slot if you only get 3 as they are prone to running as soon as you lose one if they're in units of 2 or 3. It's on of the few times it's worth it to buy VotLW to increase their Ld. 6x oblits (3x units of 2) with MoN and VotLW would take you to 1474. Add cultists or upgrades to reach 1500 and you're done. If your opponent is running lots of Grav, MoT instead of MoN is the way to go since against grav and plasma, you're still getting wounded on 2's and ignoring armour, but against anything else, MoN is better (and 4+ cover from ruins is free). Using 15 points for a jump pack on the sorceror and attaching him to a squad of raptors would probably be better than more cultists though. Maybe also spend remaining points on melta bombs for the sorceror and the raptor champs? Can at least try and fight monstrous creatures and metal boxes.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but it's about the best advice I can give you. That's just how CSM is right now and the big money says no codex until next year. Sorry mate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 21:53:06


 Peregrine wrote:
What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New England

I agree with Drasius... Pretty much said exactly what I would have said.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




If your set on raptors and talons, then there's a khorne daemonkin formation with them and a helldrake. Not that I would recommend talons(but helldrakes are good)

DFTT 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 21:21:41


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in ca
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes





The fluff-nazi inside me is really angry that night lords are working with a daemon, but hey, we're all playing with little plastic men here, I probably shouldn't care that much lol . My only recommendation would be more bodies by taking out a sorc, just because I personally think more bodies is better than one big scary dude. Other than that fine list with a lot of psychic dice and speed.

Once again, we march to war, for Victory or Death!

Never wake yourself at night, unless you are spying on your enemy or looking for a place to relieve yourself. - The Poetic Edda

2k
3k
100 Vostroyan Firstborn
1k
1.25 k  
   
 
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