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Hello everyone!! I had a game just the other day where some gargoyles were in assault with a demon prince. The gargoyles were directly behind the prince but couldn't be in base to base contact due to the princes wings being in the way. The Demon player said that those models could not attack because they were not in base to base, but the gargoyles would have been if the wings were not there. What is the rule on this? Thanks for any help would be greatly appreciated.

You should have snapped the wings off of his model real quick and said problem solved.

I view this as part of the wobbly model syndrome. The minis have the movement to get where they need to be, but cannot be physically placed where they should be. Consider them to be where they should be, and place them there when able.

From a strict rules as written standpoint, he was correct.

HOWEVER, saying that a model can't make an attack because your model's wings block base to base demonstrates extremely poor sportsmanship.

My solution would be to say "I have charge range on you. It's not my fault your model has bits have overhang its base. I'll give you this if you want, but it smacks of poor sportsmanship to me and this will be our last game. Life is too short to play with poor sports."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
I view this as part of the wobbly model syndrome. The minis have the movement to get where they need to be, but cannot be physically placed where they should be. Consider them to be where they should be, and place them there when able.

Wobbly Model Syndrome requires agreement between the two players on where the model is supposed to be. I don't think that would work in this situation.

As long as at least one model from the unit was in base-to-base, all models within 3" or the prince are able to attack.

We also ignore extra bits like wings for line of sight and shooting purposes, why would they be in play for assault? It also depends on how he modeled the wings.

sounds like he was modeling for advantage if you can't fit a model into b2b with it. grab the pitchforks, light the torches, kick him in the shin and smash the model

sirlynchmob wrote:
sounds like he was modeling for advantage if you can't fit a model into b2b with it. grab the pitchforks, light the torches, kick him in the shin and smash the model

Actually, there are tons of models that you can assemble EXACTLY per the instructions and bits hang over preventing you from making base to base contact. Our house rule is that while base to base is obviously preferred, some models only support model to model contact. In these cases, this is enough to count as base to base.

Thank you so much for getting to this as quickly as you guys did, and thank you for clearing this up. Its been a crazy argument for a couple days.

b00zecat321 wrote:
Thank you so much for getting to this as quickly as you guys did, and thank you for clearing this up. Its been a crazy argument for a couple days.

My personal policy is to leave the game arguments in the game (YMDC clarification requests notwithstanding). No sense putting undue stress on a friendship over plastic soldiers.

 EnTyme wrote:
As long as at least one model from the unit was in base-to-base, all models within 3" or the prince are able to attack.

Well this is not entirely true.

You need to be withing 2 (Two) inches of a Friendly model that is in base contact.

Being within "3" or(sic) the prince", I assume you meant of instead of or, does not make a difference.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
As long as at least one model from the unit was in base-to-base, all models within 3" or the prince are able to attack.

Well this is not entirely true.

You need to be withing 2 (Two) inches of a Friendly model that is in base contact.

Being within "3" or(sic) the prince", I assume you meant of instead of or, does not make a difference.

I assumed that unit coherency was already established.

 deviantduck wrote:
We also ignore extra bits like wings for line of sight and shooting purposes, why would they be in play for assault? It also depends on how he modeled the wings.

Because we are not told to ignore them for Charging purposes? Just like we are not told to ignore them when looking through the model for Line of Sight?

Still, would it have been too bad for him to rotate the model just enough to let the model get B2B, provided the rolled distance was sufficient? If he wouldn't, then he sounds like an MFA poor sport.

 EnTyme wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
As long as at least one model from the unit was in base-to-base, all models within 3" or the prince are able to attack.

Well this is not entirely true.

You need to be withing 2 (Two) inches of a Friendly model that is in base contact.

Being within "3" or(sic) the prince", I assume you meant of instead of or, does not make a difference.

I assumed that unit coherency was already established.

Who said anything about coherency ?

I was not talking about coherency.

 Charistoph wrote:
Still, would it have been too bad for him to rotate the model just enough to let the model get B2B, provided the rolled distance was sufficient? If he wouldn't, then he sounds like an MFA poor sport.

Why should he have to move his model to make it easier for you to get into base contact? You didn't roll high enough to make it, just like you might not have rolled high enough to make it if you had to make a 0.5" detour around a bit of impassible terrain. You wouldn't expect your opponent to rotate their model so you can draw LOS to it for shooting, so why should the assault phase be treated any differently?

Lay your model on its side and slide it base first under the wings so that they're b2b that way. Technically not against RAW but obviously not the intention of the rules (you know, like overhanging bits preventing you making a charge.)

 Peregrine wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Still, would it have been too bad for him to rotate the model just enough to let the model get B2B, provided the rolled distance was sufficient? If he wouldn't, then he sounds like an MFA poor sport.

Why should he have to move his model to make it easier for you to get into base contact? You didn't roll high enough to make it, just like you might not have rolled high enough to make it if you had to make a 0.5" detour around a bit of impassible terrain. You wouldn't expect your opponent to rotate their model so you can draw LOS to it for shooting, so why should the assault phase be treated any differently?

I did include the condition that the roll was sufficient, and you are supposed to use the shortest possible route.

For Shooting? No, because I don't need to, nor is it interfering with the normal operations of the game, in addition, Wings are ignored for drawing LOS on to the target.

But as for the Charge, yes, I would ask them to rotate it for both of our conveniences. Largely because this is a game, and only a poor sport would try to use the wings as a reason to prevent a successful Charge, just like a poor sport would snap off the wings of an offending model that prevented it from getting Base to Base.

I agree with Kriswall. What he said is technically true but very, very technically. A good sport would just let you place a coin or something at the very least to mark where the model would be if you rolled a distance that would be enough to get into base to base contact.

Fundamentally all models in the game are just tall cylinders (at least when it concerns assault) so the wings would be effectively invisible.

If he insists on this, next time bring some Tau and model a bubble shield around all of your ranged units' bases and watch his prince unable to charge anything.