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The question is in the title. Do you guys take best in slot or run fluffy and non optimal lists? What are your lists? What do you do in cases where fluffy is extremely optimal (I. E. The ironfire ROW for iron warriors).

always build as fluffy as you can/want. if the fluffy option happens to be good, AMAZING! (phosphex rapiers for DG, tyrants for IWs, etc.) but you shouldn't go out of your way to bring only the best units UNLESS you're specifically playing that way imo.

If you find yourself in a 30k tournament, build strong, but always keep in mind: 30k (and 40k as well) shines the nicest when you play fluffy rather than the 'optimal list' or other flavor of the month net list. And in all honesty, if you want to play competativley, 40k frankly does it a bit better (more armies, more specific combinations, more actual competitive events, etc.)

I love fluff and pretty models.

I also love winning.

So when the two coincide (like in the beautiful Sicaran or dual Kheres Contemptor), I don't see why I shouldn't take one.

But I often pick my Mhara Gal as well. It is considered poor, but holy hell that thing is sexy and after it killed about 1200 points on its own last game I just love it.

 Brennonjw wrote:
always build as fluffy as you can/want. if the fluffy option happens to be good, AMAZING! (phosphex rapiers for DG, tyrants for IWs, etc.) but you shouldn't go out of your way to bring only the best units UNLESS you're specifically playing that way imo.

If you find yourself in a 30k tournament, build strong, but always keep in mind: 30k (and 40k as well) shines the nicest when you play fluffy rather than the 'optimal list' or other flavor of the month net list. And in all honesty, if you want to play competativley, 40k frankly does it a bit better (more armies, more specific combinations, more actual competitive events, etc.)

One small points, 30K actually has something like 24 different armies. Granted, 20 of them are Marine armies, but yeah, it technically has more options then 40K.

Fluffy and winning lists can be a pain, but ultimately they are worth it, I've built as fluffy an Ironwing list as I could, just happens it turned out to actually be quite good on the table, ironically it doesn't do well against enemy tank armies, but got to have a weakness I suppose.

It consists of
Praetor with terranic Greatsword, Volkite caliver and the usual gubbins
Primaris medicae, termy armour, Greatsword, Volkite
Chaplain consol, termy armour, Greatsword and yep... A Volkite
Ten catapractii, Caliban warblades and 2 axes, 8 Volkite and 2 plasma blasters.
Spartan

This unit is fluffy as hell, old tech with the Volkites, unique with the warblades, but almost no ap 2, so enemy heroes or decent cc unit with ap2 will murder me, but quite powerful against anything with a 3+ save or worse, eats gal vorbak like they don't exist, which is funny.

 Formosa wrote:
Fluffy and winning lists can be a pain, but ultimately they are worth it, I've built as fluffy an Ironwing list as I could, just happens it turned out to actually be quite good on the table, ironically it doesn't do well against enemy tank armies, but got to have a weakness I suppose.

It consists of
Praetor with terranic Greatsword, Volkite caliver and the usual gubbins
Primaris medicae, termy armour, Greatsword, Volkite
Chaplain consol, termy armour, Greatsword and yep... A Volkite
Ten catapractii, Caliban warblades and 2 axes, 8 Volkite and 2 plasma blasters.
Spartan

This unit is fluffy as hell, old tech with the Volkites, unique with the warblades, but almost no ap 2, so enemy heroes or decent cc unit with ap2 will murder me, but quite powerful against anything with a 3+ save or worse, eats gal vorbak like they don't exist, which is funny.

I love the idea of the Ironwing, but it just seems to put to many eggs in one basket. Gotta run squadrons of tanks to get the bonuses, which means a ton of points just shooting at one target. And as is ever the weakness of vehicles in this game, all it takes is one shot to make a tank go poof. Played a game recently where my Ironwing lost a Land Raider and Deredeo turn 1, couple Predators and a rhino turn 2, all to lascannon shots. Bad luck for tank heavy armies is much more hurtful then infantry heavy it seems...

The question is in the title. Do you guys take best in slot or run fluffy and non optimal lists? What are your lists? What do you do in cases where fluffy is extremely optimal

I'm pointedly trying to be fluffy. I'm doing a Knight Household, so with many superheavies on the board it's already scary. I want to make sure it's (a) characterful and (b) has some weaknesses.

Plus, I grew up with Titan Legions - hence, as far as I'm concerned, Knight Errant suits are piloted by the cocky young Nobles after the big kill and looking to make a name for themselves.

Hence, scion aspirants - which means a 5+ ion shield save and WS/BS 3 and Thunderstike Gauntlets to match the old models.

 djones520 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Fluffy and winning lists can be a pain, but ultimately they are worth it, I've built as fluffy an Ironwing list as I could, just happens it turned out to actually be quite good on the table, ironically it doesn't do well against enemy tank armies, but got to have a weakness I suppose.

It consists of
Praetor with terranic Greatsword, Volkite caliver and the usual gubbins
Primaris medicae, termy armour, Greatsword, Volkite
Chaplain consol, termy armour, Greatsword and yep... A Volkite
Ten catapractii, Caliban warblades and 2 axes, 8 Volkite and 2 plasma blasters.
Spartan

This unit is fluffy as hell, old tech with the Volkites, unique with the warblades, but almost no ap 2, so enemy heroes or decent cc unit with ap2 will murder me, but quite powerful against anything with a 3+ save or worse, eats gal vorbak like they don't exist, which is funny.

I love the idea of the Ironwing, but it just seems to put to many eggs in one basket. Gotta run squadrons of tanks to get the bonuses, which means a ton of points just shooting at one target. And as is ever the weakness of vehicles in this game, all it takes is one shot to make a tank go poof. Played a game recently where my Ironwing lost a Land Raider and Deredeo turn 1, couple Predators and a rhino turn 2, all to lascannon shots. Bad luck for tank heavy armies is much more hurtful then infantry heavy it seems...

I see this come up quite often, but what forces you to take sqaudrons at all?

I run

the above termy squad with characters, in a land raider.

2 Tac sqauds in rhino with combi melta extra weapon.
2 support sqauds with either plasma or volkites, in rhino as above.
a Doredo
a Leviathan in a dread pod, 2 heavy flamers, phosphex discharger, this is to distract from my main force.
a squad of 2 Vindicators with machine spirit, bs5 is good here.

its a very good all round force, go with the strategic warlord traits and any of them are great, 3 units with infiltrate is a good one, either infil with the dedicated transport or outflank the plasma sqauds, brings the hurt.
I also plan on dropping the termies and land raider at some point, get more support and tac sqauds.

What I did with my WB is I modelled and painted a fluffy core of units that I thought would be cool to do (along with units I could convert with the bits I had TBH) with little consideration of their gaming power, then played with the list, saw where the weaknesses were, and am starting to plug the holes with this or that unit to stay competitive...but I still try to pick units that fit the fluff of my army in some way. Its pretty easy to do with HH marines; there's a ton of units to pick from the Crusade Army List (and I also have Daemons I can ally with)

 Formosa wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Fluffy and winning lists can be a pain, but ultimately they are worth it, I've built as fluffy an Ironwing list as I could, just happens it turned out to actually be quite good on the table, ironically it doesn't do well against enemy tank armies, but got to have a weakness I suppose.

It consists of
Praetor with terranic Greatsword, Volkite caliver and the usual gubbins
Primaris medicae, termy armour, Greatsword, Volkite
Chaplain consol, termy armour, Greatsword and yep... A Volkite
Ten catapractii, Caliban warblades and 2 axes, 8 Volkite and 2 plasma blasters.
Spartan

This unit is fluffy as hell, old tech with the Volkites, unique with the warblades, but almost no ap 2, so enemy heroes or decent cc unit with ap2 will murder me, but quite powerful against anything with a 3+ save or worse, eats gal vorbak like they don't exist, which is funny.

I love the idea of the Ironwing, but it just seems to put to many eggs in one basket. Gotta run squadrons of tanks to get the bonuses, which means a ton of points just shooting at one target. And as is ever the weakness of vehicles in this game, all it takes is one shot to make a tank go poof. Played a game recently where my Ironwing lost a Land Raider and Deredeo turn 1, couple Predators and a rhino turn 2, all to lascannon shots. Bad luck for tank heavy armies is much more hurtful then infantry heavy it seems...

I see this come up quite often, but what forces you to take sqaudrons at all?

I run

the above termy squad with characters, in a land raider.

2 Tac sqauds in rhino with combi melta extra weapon.
2 support sqauds with either plasma or volkites, in rhino as above.
a Doredo
a Leviathan in a dread pod, 2 heavy flamers, phosphex discharger, this is to distract from my main force.
a squad of 2 Vindicators with machine spirit, bs5 is good here.

its a very good all round force, go with the strategic warlord traits and any of them are great, 3 units with infiltrate is a good one, either infil with the dedicated transport or outflank the plasma sqauds, brings the hurt.
I also plan on dropping the termies and land raider at some point, get more support and tac sqauds.

Well you want to take the squadrons because that is where the big buff is. I run a squadron of Predators. BS5 Lascannons and a Plasma Exterminator are just scary. I am limited by the options that I have, but the list looks like this.

Praetor (For Rite of War)

Contemptor with Kheres

Tac Squad in Rhino
Tac Squad in Rhino
Plasma Squad (In Land Raider, since its the only other transport I have, and the Praetor needs a ride)

Plasma Deredeo
Land Raider Phobos
Predator Squadron, 2 with lascannons and plasma exterminator, 1 with pred cannon and heavy bolters

On paper, this is an army with some serious punch. 6 lascannons, either BS5 or twin linked, 6 plasma cannon shots, and a plasma pie plate. Then all the other low strength shooting. It should eat infantry heavy armies, termie heavy armies, and stand a reasonable chance at tank heavy armies. But as I said before, it can be dismantled quickly, if luck is not on your side.

Deligatus
Saboteur

10 man vet with double melta
5 man vet with a missile
5 man support with plasmas
5 man head hunters

i think thats pretty fluffy for a alpha zone list right?

 Desubot wrote:
Deligatus
Saboteur

10 man vet with double melta
5 man vet with a missile
5 man support with plasmas
5 man head hunters

i think thats pretty fluffy for a alpha zone list right?

Where is your compulsory troops?

Deligatus makes vets compulsory troop (IIRC needa look at wording again. also makes me take 2)

edit: Delegatus and it lets you take them as troop. and you must take two of them so i believe its kosher.

 Desubot wrote:
Deligatus makes vets compulsory troop (IIRC needa look at wording again. also makes me take 2)

edit: Delegatus and it lets you take them as troop. and you must take two of them so i believe its kosher.

Just because its a troop choice, doesn't mean its compulsory. Support Squad for example, cannot fill one of the minimum troops. I'm not 100% on the Delegatus, but might want to check on that. You might want to check on the Delegatus as a HQ choice as well. He might not be compulsory. Not sure any Consul's are.

He makes them Compulsory with Chosen Duty. The list is fine.

Most consuls can be compulsory HQs as well and the Delegatus is among them.

Its on the FW download page if you want to look at it.

he is a centurion upgrade that MUST be my warlord. as well has no stipulations that he is not compulsory like the saboteur does.

additionally it doesn't say the vets dont count as compulsory ether.

 Desubot wrote:
Its on the FW download page if you want to look at it.

he is a centurion upgrade that MUST be my warlord. as well has no stipulations that he is not compulsory like the saboteur does.

additionally it doesn't say the vets dont count as compulsory ether.

Then yeah, you're good. Don't have my books here with me, but I've been bitten in the ass a couple times cause I didn't pay attention to the compulsory rules.

How fluffy should a list be? 100% fluffy of course!

Yeah its no problem.

I basically have no CC weapons on them so i feel like they are going to fold in a light summers breeze in close combat

 Desubot wrote:
Yeah its no problem.

I basically have no CC weapons on them so i feel like they are going to fold in a light summers breeze in close combat

Depending on who you fight, yeah. Lot of Marines are great at CC. Emps Children, DA, World Eaters, etc...

I think it depends on who you play against. I've not had any games of 30k yet, but part of what drew me to it, is that in my area no one plays with competitive lists. They just bring models they think are cool or fluffy.

I just hope no one comes along and ruins it before I get my army painted!

I love fluffy lists. My 2,00 point list for my world eaters has 50 infantry all with some kind of CC weapon, a dread and 3 tanks. My 3,000 point list has another 31 infantry






*edited for accuracy and spelling

I think the 30K Legion rules do a much better job of pushing you toward a fluffy army than much of what you see on the 40K side.

Sure, you CAN run shooty WE that avoid close combat, but then you're not taking advantage of a host of special rules that stack to create the Legion's main advantage -- extremely choppy tactical squads that can actually get some work done.

IMO take the most powerful options, paint your models well, and make up some appropriate fluff to justify it.

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO take the most powerful options, paint your models well, and make up some appropriate fluff to justify it.

Na. Take what you like the model/fluff for, make some little adjustments where needed, and it'll probably do just fine.

This isn't 40k; 30k is fluff-centric.

 Ashiraya wrote:
This isn't 40k; 30k is fluff-centric.

30k is just a set of rules, it takes no position at all on how "fluffy" your army should be or what power level it should be built at. It doesn't have as much of an established competitive community as 40k, but that's a choice made by certain players, not one imposed by the game. Playing 30k by building the most powerful army you can is just as legitimate as playing it by coming up with fluff and then picking appropriate units.

It's also worth noting that 40K is arguably even more "fluff-centric" than 30K- random tables on everything and constant "forging a narrative" blurbs being prime examples. The only reason 40K seems to be more competitive is because its rules are dog-gak and thus experienced players have more opportunities to exploit the mechanics for advantages.

Anyway, winning is the primary point of playing these games- if winning wasn't important they wouldn't require you to keep score. Therefore generally speaking I take whatever the strongest units are for my legion and then write my fluff around those units. If those units are too strong compared to my opponents then the onus is on Forgeworld to fix them.

Easy, build what you like the look and paint scheme on. If it looks cool to you go for it. Look at the overall rules later. Its how I built my Tau army and keeps it friendly for normal games. Essentially read the fluff for the unit and get it in your head how you think it would look, if you like it, go for it.

Or think army wide, I want my army to do X on the tabletop, how do I accomplish this?

I do not view 30k as competitive at all and I do not believe competitiveness was the intention of the designers as well. Thus I will not min max or spam the best units just to be TFG. Then again I have been playing 30k since the rules initially came out and think this newer breed of 30k players has the wrong idea about it. To me its about epic combat and moving mass numbers of troops and tanks across the table. Win or lose it looks cool and that's the point.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
This isn't 40k; 30k is fluff-centric.

30k is just a set of rules, it takes no position at all on how "fluffy" your army should be or what power level it should be built at. It doesn't have as much of an established competitive community as 40k, but that's a choice made by certain players, not one imposed by the game. Playing 30k by building the most powerful army you can is just as legitimate as playing it by coming up with fluff and then picking appropriate units.

I am incredibly grateful my local gaming group does not think like you. We have plenty of variety in every way and direction; netlists are not a thing and the guy who brings phosphex mortars one game brings assault marines the next.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
..... Anyway, winning is the primary point of playing these games- if winning wasn't important they wouldn't require you to keep score. Therefore generally speaking I take whatever the strongest units are for my legion and then write my fluff around those units. If those units are too strong compared to my opponents then the onus is on Forgeworld to fix them.

I don't think the 'primary' focus is on winning, as much as it is on playing a game, and having an enjoyable time. While winning is a factor, it should never be considered the 'primary' factor unless you truly value winning more than any other experience that could arise in (or from) the game. And even then, that doesn't make the main factor of the game winning, it makes what you see as the main factor winning.

But to you and Peregrine both that's a terrifying mind set to have for making lists and playing the game unless your entire local meta is people who only power game. Spamming the biggest, baddest unit you can field en mass and then saying Forgeworld is the reason that your list is broken is like smashing a mailbox with a bat, and then blaming the bat manufacturer instead of yourself. If you bring 9 quad-mortars, a spartan, and 2 fire raptors in one list, you're being the donkey-cave, not forgeworld for having 'broken rules.' By this logic: It's not the eldar players fault that he brought only scat-bikes, D wraiths, and warp spiders to a friendly game, it's GW's for giving him the ability to. Which is just dumb.