Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/04/27 12:34:55
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
To start off, I haven't really played WoW seriously for years. I hopped on the latest expansion but after a month or two I quickly became bored. Mostly because of how easy it was to get gear. However, when the game was released, I played it religiously for many years.
If you are unfamiliar with the current situation I will try to give a brief explanation and not leave anything out.
Nostalrius was a french run Vanilla server that was operated independently. It was free to play on and it contained all patches right up to patch 2.0, when The Burning Crusade hit. Nostalrius was very, pushing up to around 800,000 accounts. It had a very thriving community and many players loved it, until recently. Blizzard issues a cease and desist letter to the operators of the server. The operators announced to their community what was happening and told them they were shutting down the servers. Since then, Blizzard has been receiving a lot of backlash from not only the Nostalrius community, but the WoW community as a whole. It appears that many people would really like an old school Vanilla server.
Weeks after forcing the closure of a private World of Warcraft server, Blizzard is speaking up on the cease and desist filed against the developers of Nostalrius, a popular, unofficial server where fans could play the classic version of the MMO. And based on comments from Blizzard, it sounds like the company is seriously considering giving fans the option to play on official, "vanilla" World of Warcraft servers — or at least something closer to that than the current version of the game.
World of Warcraft executive producer J. Allen Brack wrote on the game's official forums that Blizzard has been "closely following the Nostalrius discussion."
"WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING CLASSIC SERVERS FOR YEARS"
"Our silence on this subject definitely doesn't reflect our level of engagement and passion around this topic," Brack said. "We hear you. Many of us across Blizzard and the WoW Dev team have been passionate players ever since classic WoW. In fact, I personally work at Blizzard because of my love for classic WoW.
"We have been discussing classic servers for years — it's a topic every BlizzCon — and especially over the past few weeks. From active internal team discussions to after-hours meetings with leadership, this subject has been highly debated."
Brack said Blizzard requested the closure of Nostalrius, which reportedly boasted some 800,000 accounts, to protect its property.
"[F]ailure to protect against intellectual property infringement would damage Blizzard's rights," Brack explained. "This applies to anything that uses WoW's IP, including unofficial servers. And while we've looked into the possibility — there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard's IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server."
Blizzard has explored developing its own "classic servers," Brack said, but noted "tremendous operational challenges to integrating classic servers" and the difficulty of supporting multiple live versions of the game. But Blizzard has considered another option for longtime Warcraft fans.
"WE EXPLORED OPTIONS FOR DEVELOPING CLASSIC SERVERS AND NONE COULD BE EXECUTED WITHOUT GREAT DIFFICULTY."
"So what can we do to capture that nostalgia of when WoW first launched?" Brack said. "Over the years we have talked about a 'pristine realm'. In essence that would turn off all leveling acceleration including character transfers, heirloom gear, character boosts, Recruit-A-Friend bonuses, WoW Token, and access to cross realm zones, as well as group finder. We aren't sure whether this version of a clean slate is something that would appeal to the community and it's still an open topic of discussion."
What's more, Brack said Blizzard has also been in contact with "some of the folks who operated Nostalrius," but didn't specify what the nature of those talks were about.
"They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks," Brack said.
Response from World of Warcraft fans in the forums has been mixed. While some are appreciative that Blizzard is responding publicly to the Nostalrius situation at all, many seem to believe the "pristine server" concept doesn't go far enough. Some players continue to push for a classic, "vanilla" implementation of the game — a version similar to the pre-Cataclysm expansion — and hope Blizzard will work directly with the Nostalrius development team to support old-school World of Warcraft.
World of Warcraft will celebrate its 12th anniversary this November. Blizzard's next expansion for the game, Legion, will be released in August.
Now for my thoughts. I don't really believe them. I have a hard time believing they have been discussing this for years when they have told us to our faces that "we don't really want it, we think we do, but we don't." That leaves a bad taste in my mouth and tells me they never really considered it until they got this kind of backlash for shutting down a server that so many people played on. On top of that, since their numbers have been slowly declining over the years, it seems like they are going to attempt to pull in as many people as possible in any way they can.
Anybody have thoughts?
2016/04/27 12:39:20
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
I did not play back then, but my mindset is that I do not want a vanilla server purely because maintaining it would take resources away from new content that I am actually interested in.
But hey, that is just my preference. I could not care less if Blizzard decided to let Nostalrius live, but I also understand why they couldn't (failing to defend your IP is no laughing matter in the US).
It wouldn't really take resources away from new content at all. A Vanilla server would not have any more content made for it. it would just be the patches up through Naxxramas. There may be minor patches for balancing, but no additional content like raids or battlegrounds would ever be added.
2016/04/27 12:48:26
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Actually what I'd like to see even more is a re-roll-out of all their previous content prior to cataclysm. That way I could play Vanilla through Northrend under the original timeline.
2016/04/27 13:13:49
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Dreadwinter wrote: It wouldn't really take resources away from new content at all. A Vanilla server would not have any more content made for it. it would just be the patches up through Naxxramas. There may be minor patches for balancing, but no additional content like raids or battlegrounds would ever be added.
Can they even do that, though? There have been countless changes made in the meantime, models and animation changes, UI changes, coding, countless stuff that would take time and effort to rollback.
Dreadwinter wrote: It wouldn't really take resources away from new content at all. A Vanilla server would not have any more content made for it. it would just be the patches up through Naxxramas. There may be minor patches for balancing, but no additional content like raids or battlegrounds would ever be added.
Can they even do that, though? There have been countless changes made in the meantime, models and animation changes, UI changes, coding, countless stuff that would take time and effort to rollback.
Well, the rumor is that Blizzard messed up when they were in the early stages of WoW and lost a lot of the old vanilla data. But the people who run Nostalrius have it all. So in theory they would be able to do it with the information those guys have.
2016/04/27 15:15:26
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
There are hundreds of vanilla servers run privately all over the world...these guys need to just move on. Blizzard should stomp on these private servers every chance they get too.
Don't like WoW in it's current iteration? Don't play it.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
2016/04/27 15:27:04
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
1) It was naked piracy operation, so obviously it had to be shut down.
2) They're legally obligated to protect their IP or lose it, so it had to be shut down.
3) The rose-tinted goggles effect is super real for Vanilla WoW. I'm sure there are genuinely people who want and would enjoy going back for to those days enough to pay, but for every 1 of them there are 10 people either bandwagoning on the complaints, would only play if it was free, or would try it for a week and then quit. Given I've heard numbers that show upwards of 80% attrition on those "800k" accounts, only a fraction of the remainder beyond that really being actively engaged that reinforces the idea more people like the idea of playing vanilla WoW more than they like playing it.
4) Which version of "Old" wow do you go with? The launch version? The final patch of 1.X? TBC when the game population & growth were at their highest? Everyone has their favorites. I'd want to be playing 1.8.4 because feth forbearance I'm still salty about that change. I'm sure there are warriors who'd want to be playing some time before they let paladin/druid peasants into the tanking game.
The sad truth is for (most) folks pining for vanilla days is: You're not 15 anymore. Playing the game you played when you were 15 won't change that. Vanilla was new then, the concept of mmo was new to you then and neither of those things will ever be true again. Your adult brain is different and you're physically incapable of feeling things as strongly as you did back then. You'll never get a 2nd chance at not creeping out that cute girl from your math class you found out played too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/27 15:40:28
2016/04/27 16:41:07
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Can they even do that, though? There have been countless changes made in the meantime, models and animation changes, UI changes, coding, countless stuff that would take time and effort to rollback.
The Nostalrius guys managed it, there is no reason why Blizzard couldn't do it.
thenoobbomb wrote: The Nostalrius guys reprogrammed a lot of stuff themselves (as is the usual with Private Servers). They spent several years on it.
That just makes it even more ridiculous that Blizzard can't do it with their resources and their own code. If all else fails just buy the Nostralius version.
I played briefly, but couldn't stomach the idea of paying a subscription. My life is too hectic for that. If they did something like Guild Wars 2 and had a flat fee I'd be tempted to go back in. We'll probably see more private servers in the coming decades once WOW finally fizzles out. But it's still a cash cow so I'm not holding my breath.
2016/04/27 18:09:00
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
thenoobbomb wrote: The Nostalrius guys reprogrammed a lot of stuff themselves (as is the usual with Private Servers). They spent several years on it.
That just makes it even more ridiculous that Blizzard can't do it with their resources and their own code. If all else fails just buy the Nostralius version.
They can't "just buy the nostralius" version. Beyond the relatively legal clusterfeth even trying to use it let alone "buying" it would represent it's at minimum a huge security risk and liability. They're not going to expose their own infrastructure & customer information to a bunch of software written by 3rd party pirates.
Secondly while blizzard almost certainly could re-write vanilla from scratch given they made vanilla in the first place the costs involved are super non-trivial. They're not hobbyists or a charity, it's a business. Why in the world would they want to dedicate a whole bunch of expensive programmers, testers and other resources (that they need to either fresh hire or pull off other projects) for a "maybe there might be enough interest sorta, some folks signed an ~~online petition!~~" project that's bound to dilute the WoW brand identity no matter how the project turns out.
It's one matter to put out a thing when you have people volunteering their time, you're not obligated provide service or support, you don't have any brand management or legal concerns to worry about, and you're operating as a collection of hobbyists rather than a publicly traded company. It's another matter when you're blizzard, and you've got all those concerns and more to deal with.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2016/04/27 18:19:10
2016/04/27 18:24:24
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
curran12 wrote: 800k accounts with an 80% attrition rate. A drop in the bucket.
Correct. Also important to note: When it's free. Only a fraction of those people are going to want to actually pony up the dough to play. Longevity is an issue as even if they get a ton of people initially, how many people are still going to be wanting to pay in a year, 2, 3? They can't just invest everything they need to get this back online for it to be a 1-month distraction for the nostalgic. They need a player base that's not only going to play but stay and pay long term.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/27 18:42:09
2016/04/27 21:08:47
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Nostalrius was a cool idea, but it lived and died by the grace of Blizzard's willingness to leave it be (because Blizzard has every right to shut them down). Honestly, their biggest mistake was probably putting up a fancy website and advertising like a business. When you're pirating someone's stuff, and they know, your best chance to avoid a C&D is to be non-threatening. All things aside, IP holders can be mello depending on who the holder is, and what exactly someone is doing. That's how Pokemon simulators have managed to avoid C&Ds all these years, even when Nintendo was throwing them out like shuriken.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/27 21:09:48
Alright guys, I understand that they had to shut it down for IP reasons. We are not here to discuss why they shut it down and how they shut it down.
The discussion is about Blizzard putting up Vanilla servers. Lets move to that.
Blizzard is currently in talks with the Nostalrius guys about their server. They are not pursuing legal action against them, so I assume they are talking to them about the Vanilla code.
2016/04/28 13:58:29
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
I played the vanilla game, and I love the WOW story and all. I have lots of fond memories of spending my whole saturday with like 40 people trying to make it through Molten Core, and the joy and elation when I finally won the roll for those warlock shoulder pads with banana horns sticking out of them.
But I've been there and done that. It might be fun to go look around for nostalgia if it's free, but I'm not paying a monthly fee for a 12 year old game.
2016/04/28 14:39:31
Subject: Re:World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
It could potentially work by going donation-based, but I don't know how much it would cost to run even a side-project like a vanilla server with proper GMs and all the Blizzard technical back-end. A donation system would really solve the 'will people use it?' debate, though. If it doesn't make any money but has loads of players, then they're just looking to play WoW for free. If it makes a fair amount from many players, then people are obviously willing to fund and use it. If there are too few players overall to fund it even with steady donations, then obviously not as many people wanted it as was made out.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2016/04/28 16:08:37
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Played on Nos around Xmas and had some really good fun on it.
It was stable, a good community and was fun to go all the way back to vanilla.
Sad to see it go.
It will be interesting to see if blizzard do actually contact the Nos team and see about vanilla servers as a possibility.
And if not run by Blizz, perhaps sub licensed out to Nos and other like-minded groups.
However that would involve the old subscription model and for me, Im not sure I'd go back and pay.
Everyone loves free stuff right?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2016/04/29 19:12:57
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Blizzard will never put up a vanilla server. It would require a ton of staff to do and would never be worth the investment.
As for the "WoW is dying" argument. That's been around for 6 years and it resurrects with every expansion. Guess what? New expansion right around the corner. It's still the most popular MMO in the world so dying is hardly accurate.
Oh and using an online petition to see how many players you would get is nonsense, outrage culture is huge these days and you can bet your ass that maybe 10% of the signees would actually PAY to play vanilla. (and I'm being generous)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/29 19:13:55
2016/04/29 19:30:35
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
I think you'd find people might be willing to pay to play it but it'd be during the off times when patches lag or we're waiting for a new expansion. I know I'd pay to play it during this ridiculous lull we've been in for months. And since I put my account on hold when I'm bored it's money they wouldn't have otherwise. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people out there like that.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2016/04/29 19:45:33
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
Soladrin wrote: That's been around for 6 years and it resurrects with every expansion.
With less subscribers each time, Blizzard have also stopped reporting subscription numbers. Its dying, its not dead but its clear that less and less people are actually playing it..
Soladrin wrote: Oh and using an online petition to see how many players you would get is nonsense, outrage culture is huge these days and you can bet your ass that maybe 10% of the signees would actually PAY to play vanilla. (and I'm being generous)
Soladrin wrote: That's been around for 6 years and it resurrects with every expansion.
With less subscribers each time, Blizzard have also stopped reporting subscription numbers. Its dying, its not dead but its clear that less and less people are actually playing it..
Soladrin wrote: Oh and using an online petition to see how many players you would get is nonsense, outrage culture is huge these days and you can bet your ass that maybe 10% of the signees would actually PAY to play vanilla. (and I'm being generous)
So only £200,000 a month then? Peanuts.
Yeah, because companies love throwing that amount away when it has no chance of getting anything back.
I think it's naive to think that blizzard would ever do this.
2016/04/30 08:00:54
Subject: World of Warcraft: The Nostalrius Shutdown
As someone who was into lvl19 twinks(have a couple characters with 2 Arena trinkets, gear that's no longer available, and all that jazz), I'd love a "hardmode" server. Vanilla would be close; but anything without all the fast travel/mounts, easily leveled skills, accelerated leveling I would love.
Of course, my SO told me it was WoW or her so it's not like I'd go back anytime soon anyway.
You guys are aware that Blizzard has a subscription plan as well as a token plan(much like Wildstar), correct?
You can buy in game time without a subscription if you have enough gold.
Either way, Blizzard told us a long time ago that they would never do a vanilla server. Now they are walking that back. Saying they will never do something just because is not really a good argument when they themselves have looked at it and said "Yeah, maybe we should start thinking about that."
Soladrin wrote: Oh and using an online petition to see how many players you would get is nonsense, outrage culture is huge these days and you can bet your ass that maybe 10% of the signees would actually PAY to play vanilla. (and I'm being generous)
Ugh, I hate it when people do this. You are not being generous, you are bending what you said so you can make it fit your narrative. You have absolutely no idea what would happen if they opened a vanilla server. You really have nothing to base it on either. Do not come in here and shoot something down because you do not see it working then yell "FACTS!" Because there were none provided. Come on man, just because you do not think it will happen is no reason to come in here and act like that.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points) 
(building)
(less)