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I'm happy to see this reversal:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/28/army-retains-decorated-green-beret-it-planned-to-kick-out-over-confronting-afghan-child-rapist.html?intcmp=hpbt2

EXCLUSIVE: In a stunning reversal, the U.S. Army decided late Thursday to retain a decorated Green Beret it had planned to kick out after he physically confronted a local Afghan commander accused of raping a boy over the course of many days.



Sgt 1st Class Charles Martland, confirmed the Army's decision to retain him when reached by Fox News, who has been covering the story in depth for the past eight months and first broke the story of the Army's decision in August to kick out Martland over the incident, which occurred in northern Afghanistan in 2011.

"I am real thankful for being able to continue to serve," said Martland when reached on the telephone by Fox News. "I appreciate everything Congressman Duncan Hunter and his Chief of Staff, Joe Kasper did for me."

As first reported by Fox News, while deployed to Kunduz Province, Afghanistan, Martland and his team leader confronted a local police commander in 2011 accused of raping an Afghan boy and beating his mother. When the man laughed off the incident, they shoved him to the ground.

Martland and his team leader were later removed from the base, and eventually sent home from Afghanistan. The U.S. Army has not confirmed the specifics of Martland's separation from service citing privacy reasons, but a “memorandum of reprimand” from October 2011 obtained by Fox News makes clear that Martland was criticized by the brass for his intervention after the alleged rape. Asked for comment in September 2015, an Army spokesman reiterated, "the U.S. Army is unable to confirm the specifics of his separation due to the Privacy Act."

An Army spokesman said Thursday that Martland's status has been changed, allowing him to stay in the Army in a statement to Fox News.

"In SFC Martland’s case, the Army Board for Correction of Military Records determination modified a portion of one of SFC Martland’s evaluation reports and removed him from the QMP list, which will allow him to remain in the Army," said Lt. Col. Jerry Pionk.

Martland's former Special Forces team leader, now out of the Army and living in New York said the Army is a better place with Martland in its ranks.

"This is not just a great victory for SFC Martland and his family- I’m just as happy that he can continue to serve our country and inspire his peers, subordinates and officers to be better soldiers. Charles makes every soldier he comes in contact with better and the Army is undoubtedly a better organization with SFC Martland still in its ranks," said Martland's former team leader Danny

Thank god reason prevailed.

Now give this man a medal.
And fire the guys who thought it was a good idea to kick him out of the army. Armies need more honourable soldiers like this. Protecting the weak and innocent and all that.

All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

And how does extra-judicial violence solve that?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And how does extra-judicial violence solve that?

Kill enough of the bad people and there are fewer bad people doing bad things. The only problem with this case was the soldier should have executed the guy, not just shoved him to the ground.

 Peregrine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And how does extra-judicial violence solve that?

Kill enough of the bad people and there are fewer bad people doing bad things. The only problem with this case was the soldier should have executed the guy, not just shoved him to the ground.

Yeah, because an American service member killing an foreign national and alleged rapist is exactly what should have happened because feth laws, right?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Yeah, because an American service member killing an foreign national and alleged rapist is exactly what should have happened because feth laws, right?

IIRC there was no doubt about the guy's guilt. It was "alleged" only in the sense that he hadn't been convicted in a court system that was not going to convict him no matter how obviously guilty he was.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And how does extra-judicial violence solve that?

Kill enough of the bad people and there are fewer bad people doing bad things. The only problem with this case was the soldier should have executed the guy, not just shoved him to the ground.

Yeah, because an American service member killing an foreign national and alleged rapist is exactly what should have happened because feth laws, right?

The guy was bragging around about raping the kid. As far as laws go, it's the rule of the strong. The rapist was the law, and the Green Beret was frustrated that nothing could be done. Knocking a guy like that in the teeth is no crime in my opinion.

Relapse wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And how does extra-judicial violence solve that?

Kill enough of the bad people and there are fewer bad people doing bad things. The only problem with this case was the soldier should have executed the guy, not just shoved him to the ground.

Yeah, because an American service member killing an foreign national and alleged rapist is exactly what should have happened because feth laws, right?

The guy was bragging around about raping the kid. As far as laws go, it's the rule of the strong. The rapist was the law, and the Green Beret was frustrated that nothing could be done. Knocking a guy like that in the teeth is no crime in my opinion.

The guy he punched was a total scumbag. Meh that was letting him off Lightly.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Yeah, because an American service member killing an foreign national and alleged rapist is exactly what should have happened because feth laws, right?

IIRC there was no doubt about the guy's guilt. It was "alleged" only in the sense that he hadn't been convicted in a court system that was not going to convict him no matter how obviously guilty he was.

Indeed. Despite being illegal under both the Taliban and the current government, the historical practice of "bacha bazi", or "boy play" , is still going strong. despite being forbidden under both secular and sharia law. As it was during the Taliban era (where it carried the death penalty), the laws against it are rarely enforced.

He shouldn't be removed from the military, that is crazy, but he did show a lack of self control, which is a problem.

 Ahtman wrote:
He shouldn't be removed from the military, that is crazy, but he did show a lack of self control, which is a problem.

It's a rough go all around. I wonder what happened to the kid and his mother.

Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.



My personal views are glad that American military justice chose the right path with this guy, and I can't begin to understand the ROE's placed on these current soldiers. Not how you fight a war IMO.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

Yeah, he did a lot more than push the guy lol. He kicked the gak out of him (with good reason IMO)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.

Errr... Is that sarcasm or were you being serious, Dutch?

"In SFC Martland’s case, the Army Board for Correction of Military Records determination modified a portion of one of SFC Martland’s evaluation reports and removed him from the QMP list, which will allow him to remain in the Army," said Lt. Col. Jerry Pionk.

Hmmm if I remember correctly....the Eval has been censured from all record. Think a LoR was introduce and not a GOLoR

The guy should of just been taken off to disappear... Wouldnt be the first time I seen it, probly will not be the last either. Bad people tend to disappear when no one will be looking for them and other people get their spot.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

Yeah, he did a lot more than push the guy lol. He kicked the gak out of him (with good reason IMO)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.

Errr... Is that sarcasm or were you being serious, Dutch?

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

 Ahtman wrote:
He shouldn't be removed from the military, that is crazy, but he did show a lack of self control, which is a problem.

Aye, that's I think where the issue was, and also highlights that there can be a difference between being a good soldier and being a good person in some situations.

 jhe90 wrote:

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

To be fair, when delved into deeper, it's not really so much that other inmates hate pedo's more than any other criminal, it's that inmates can get away with doing just about anything to them.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
He shouldn't be removed from the military, that is crazy, but he did show a lack of self control, which is a problem.

Aye, that's I think where the issue was, and also highlights that there can be a difference between being a good soldier and being a good person in some situations.

 jhe90 wrote:

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

To be fair, when delved into deeper, it's not really so much that other inmates hate pedo's more than any other criminal, it's that inmates can get away with doing just about anything to them.

I disagree about the inmates. A friend of mine who is a guard at the state prison here tells me the inmates know when these kind of people are coming and are waiting for them because they really despise those who hurt children in this fashion.

OgreChubbs wrote:
The guy should of just been taken off to disappear... Wouldnt be the first time I seen it, probly will not be the last either. Bad people tend to disappear when no one will be looking for them and other people get their spot.

The best way to show our respect for the rule of law is to commit extrajudicial killings.

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
The guy should of just been taken off to disappear... Wouldnt be the first time I seen it, probly will not be the last either. Bad people tend to disappear when no one will be looking for them and other people get their spot.

The best way to show our respect for the rule of law is to commit extrajudicial killings.

And that is about the law out there. Law is a lie just a same old in a new packet.
Tribes, Taliban, police, same stuff, new names .

 jhe90 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
The guy should of just been taken off to disappear... Wouldnt be the first time I seen it, probly will not be the last either. Bad people tend to disappear when no one will be looking for them and other people get their spot.

The best way to show our respect for the rule of law is to commit extrajudicial killings.

And that is about the law out there. Law is a lie just a same old in a new packet.
Tribes, Taliban, police, same stuff, new names .

And if people are into that kind of thing they can always move there, join the local police, or try to enlist in their military.

Our military are expected to obey our rules and our orders, and this particular soldier was disciplined for violating these rules and orders.

 d-usa wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
The guy should of just been taken off to disappear... Wouldnt be the first time I seen it, probly will not be the last either. Bad people tend to disappear when no one will be looking for them and other people get their spot.

The best way to show our respect for the rule of law is to commit extrajudicial killings.

And that is about the law out there. Law is a lie just a same old in a new packet.
Tribes, Taliban, police, same stuff, new names .

And if people are into that kind of thing they can always move there, join the local police, or try to enlist in their military.

Our military are expected to obey our rules and our orders, and this particular soldier was disciplined for violating these rules and orders.

Actually the law is what they can prove you did or knew about, not what you actually did or let happen.

Just saying there is atleast 1 guy I know of who went missing in the last 20 years who was a child rapist, he was proven to have rapped 2 or more kids around here and one day he went missing. Next summer they found his body chopped up in a river... no one ever was charged and I do not think anyone really cares either. Cant say if I was the cops I would be trying to hard either tho.

 jhe90 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

Yeah, he did a lot more than push the guy lol. He kicked the gak out of him (with good reason IMO)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.

Errr... Is that sarcasm or were you being serious, Dutch?

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

Actually, pederasty seems to have been not just tolerated, but considered totally acceptable in pretty much every ancient and medieval culture (at least in Europe). The Ancient Greeks and Romans were especially notorious for this. Just take a look at the infamous Warren Cup in the British Museum
So yeah, I am afraid this one line that many cultures were rather fond of... It may seem like a fundamental value to us, but history (and contemporary examples like Afghanistan) shows us that it is only cultural. Which brings us to the question: "Should we enforce our culture upon others?"

I think this is a really hard question to answer. It kinda tears me apart because in this case, I very much want to say 'yes' because stopping this really seems like the right thing to do, but then forcing your own culture upon others is kinda imperialistic and evil too. So no matter the answer, you are evil. And more practical, if we as "Western civilisation" would say yes, then what would we do to actually make it so? Doing like Dutch says certainly would be the easier option.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

Yeah, he did a lot more than push the guy lol. He kicked the gak out of him (with good reason IMO)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.

Errr... Is that sarcasm or were you being serious, Dutch?

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

Actually, pederasty seems to have been not just tolerated, but considered totally acceptable in pretty much every ancient and medieval culture (at least in Europe). The Ancient Greeks and Romans were especially notorious for this. Just take a look at the infamous Warren Cup in the British Museum
So yeah, I am afraid this one line that many cultures were rather fond of... It may seem like a fundamental value to us, but history (and contemporary examples like Afghanistan) shows us that it is only cultural. Which brings us to the question: "Should we enforce our culture upon others?"

I think this is a really hard question to answer. It kinda tears me apart because in this case, I very much want to say 'yes' because stopping this really seems like the right thing to do, but then forcing your own culture upon others is kinda imperialistic and evil too. So no matter the answer, you are evil. And more practical, if we as "Western civilisation" would say yes, then what would we do to actually make it so? Doing like Dutch says certainly would be the easier option.

Evil in all culture is harming those who cant defend themselves. So rapping a child is evil.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
All that fuss for pushing someone to the ground. It shows how we've changed. Much worse than that happened to people caught abusing civilians in WW2 and other conflicts in the 20th century and no one cared. But today, shoving some rapist scum is enough to end your career.

You can't expect decent men to rub shoulders with filth and pretend they're clean, call them allies when they're working against you. All these corrupt police and those actively helping the Taliban, they *are* the enemy, that's why Afghanistan is in such a mess because there are so many in positions of power undermining law and order.

Yeah, he did a lot more than push the guy lol. He kicked the gak out of him (with good reason IMO)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these problems with pederasty relegated to the North of Afghanistan? As in our allies?

We let them grow poppies that are funneled into Western Europe and America, why not let them feth a few boys? It's not like they'd be all that better off as Afghan women.

Errr... Is that sarcasm or were you being serious, Dutch?

Because there's some stuff people can tolerate but that's one line rarely any cultere has tolerated. Meh you beat a pedo, yeah even among the worst in darkest jails there considered the lowest.

Actually, pederasty seems to have been not just tolerated, but considered totally acceptable in pretty much every ancient and medieval culture (at least in Europe). The Ancient Greeks and Romans were especially notorious for this. Just take a look at the infamous Warren Cup in the British Museum
So yeah, I am afraid this one line that many cultures were rather fond of... It may seem like a fundamental value to us, but history (and contemporary examples like Afghanistan) shows us that it is only cultural. Which brings us to the question: "Should we enforce our culture upon others?"

I think this is a really hard question to answer. It kinda tears me apart because in this case, I very much want to say 'yes' because stopping this really seems like the right thing to do, but then forcing your own culture upon others is kinda imperialistic and evil too. So no matter the answer, you are evil. And more practical, if we as "Western civilisation" would say yes, then what would we do to actually make it so? Doing like Dutch says certainly would be the easier option.

Evil in all culture is harming those who cant defend themselves. So rapping a child is evil.

Unfortenately that sentiment is not shared by all cultures. Plenty of historical and even contemporary cultures where harming defenseless persons is totally okay (just think of slaves and serfs etc.).

OgreChubbs wrote:
Just saying there is atleast 1 guy I know of who went missing in the last 20 years who was a child rapist, he was proven to have rapped 2 or more kids around here and one day he went missing. Next summer they found his body chopped up in a river... no one ever was charged and I do not think anyone really cares either. Cant say if I was the cops I would be trying to hard either tho.

I would fething hope the cops are trying to catch someone who is capable of murdering and dismembering someone, no matter how vile his crimes.

 feeder wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Just saying there is atleast 1 guy I know of who went missing in the last 20 years who was a child rapist, he was proven to have rapped 2 or more kids around here and one day he went missing. Next summer they found his body chopped up in a river... no one ever was charged and I do not think anyone really cares either. Cant say if I was the cops I would be trying to hard either tho.

I would fething hope the cops are trying to catch someone who is capable of murdering and dismembering someone, no matter how vile his crimes.

it has been 8+ years and they said the case is open but there is no new leads. So basically it is over and no one cares lol. Out here in the country people can disappear for years and everyone knows everyone. Hell it might be even longer now I was like 17 or something when it happened.

All I remember is the news paper said rapist found dismembered in river after defrost, may have fell in the ice. They said his neck was broken and he was beaten but it could be do to a fall so there is no leads. Then if my memorie serves me right, I remember his mother on the news asking for info but yeah.

But this stuff happens in the country. The one before that" that i heard off" I got no info on something along the lines of a native raped a girl or something like that he was reported missing by his family months later but since it was on the reserve it was dead on arrivial. Mom said there was a guy walking around saying he put his ass in a crab trap and he is in the bottom of the ocean. But that predates me by 10 years or so. Bad people go missing up north and even more so in the country folks. Be nice and friendly all the time :-)


Oh but just some clarity about a hour drive to the tip of the coast of cape britian there is a old military bunker tunnels. As kids we use to try get in deep as we could then get out before the tide came in. There is warning ropes up and constant cop patrols but people go i. There tide comes in the ends up dead and the ocean takes them away never to be seen again. It happens we got the bay of fundy 3 hours away that can do the same. Plus if you dirve 15 minutes from my house there is atleast geeze I dont know 200+kilomieters of walking room only woods.. Poor old man got out of a old folks home couple years ago ran into the woods... Never did find a body poor bastard. We got lots of wolves and black bears, some moose ect. It kinda happens that people poof.

gakky people live everywhere I guess, some people are proud of that.