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Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







My next GBHL tournament is in June, and nicely enough, it's at 800 points (200 more than my last list). As such, taking into account my experience from my last tournament, I'm going to start designing my own list. I'm thinking this through partially as I'm typing so people can see my though process/justification for units as I go, so if you want to just critique whatever I come out, just skip to the end.

Morannon Orc Captain w/Shield
4 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield


Morannon Orc Captain w/Shield
3 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with (6)Spear and (5)Shield

Ringwraith w/ 1 might
Mordor Troll
8 Orc Trackers

Wild Warg Chieftain
8 Wild Wargs


Now the first thing I learnt from my last tournament, is that my troll really needs to be a Hero if he's going to fend off the Heroic strikes he'll get hammered with. So working on the basis that I don't know if I want a troll hero or not yet, let's deduct him from the list. I also learnt that I really do want my Orc heroes to be Fight Value 5, just to get them on par with basic elves and good human heroes. So I'll be upgrading both of the Morannon Orc Captains to Captains of the Black Guard. Finally, I learnt that my wargs just aren't quite durable enough for extended combat. I know I want something that moves fast on my flanks, but they just couldn't quite cut it. I did figure out though, that by taking 3 Fell Wargs separately, I could make out like a bandit on deployment, and scope out my enemy before positioning for best possible placement. So I'll be taking the wargs out, and replacing them with 3 Fell Wargs. All this gives me the following as a base to work from.


Captain of the Black Guard
4 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Captain of the Black Guard
4 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Ringwraith w/ 1 might
8 Orc Trackers

Fell Warg

Fell Warg

Fell Warg


This comes in right now at 409 points, a little over half of my maximum. Not too shabby. So, what are my options here? Well, I still want a fast attack wing in my army. I also want some monsters (especially now I've lost my troll).

After reading about online, I've heard good things about Shelob, and she would appear to satisfy both criteria, so I'm going to plonk her into the list. With her fast speed, she can dash into the flanks of enemy shield walls, using Hurl to really disrupt them. With 2 Strength 7 attacks with re-rolls to wound at Fight 7 on the charge, she's also pretty good at archer/character assassination too, with a hefty Will of 6 to fight off any magic assaults on her. I was a little worried about her Hunting Instinct rule, but all the testimonials I've read pointed out that with Courage 4 and 6 Will, fleeing is unlikely. Finally, she's a monstrous mount to boot, so an excellent anti-cavalry disruptor.

This gives me just over 300 points left to play with. So what's my next priority?

Well, with my troll gone, my Ringwraith is looking a little lonely as an anti-hero counter. So ideally, I need to toss him away and replace him with either a troll hero, or upgrade him to a named Wraith on a Fell Beast. Tom would be the best choice for my points, but I want to keep it themed. So that leaves me with a choice between a Mordor Troll Chieftain, or Khamul the Easterling/The Knight of Umbar/The Undying on a Fell Beast. Why those three specifically? Because if it's on a Fell Beast, it really needs to be a combat Wraith, and those are the only three that can handle any kind of extended combat exposure.

Before I choose between the Troll and the Wraith, I want to narrow down which Wraith is the choice. So let's run them off. The Undying has the most obvious durability, with the power to burn will instead of fate. He's also the best of the three at sorcery. I'm dubious about his power to last a longer game however if I want to use him heavily in the combat role. So upon reflection, I'm going to rule him out. Between the Knight and Khamul, both have good staying power in combat (one only loses will when he loses the fight, the other can regain will by dealing wounds). So they're equal there. Both are not amazing at sorcery, but by accepting Black Dart as being irrelevant, I'd rather have Khamul's increased ability for Sap Will, so he wins on the sorcery score.

Finally, both have the power to boost their stats slightly. The Knight can mimic an enemy for free, but Khamul can do it any time at the cost of will. Since they're both on fell-beasts, their Strength isn't such an issue, and the only time a Fight Value boost would be needed is if I run into a particularly tough hero. Since the Knight's mimicry skill is situational, but Khamul's is available any time, I'd class Khamul as the better one there. He might have to pay for it, but his essence leech and mount means he can always dash away and swipe a few troops to boost himself again!

So. Troll or Wraith? Well, if we're looking at this from a tactical perspective, having a 12" jump power and ability to bowl over cavalry is pretty nice. Both can use monstrous attacks, but due to manoeuvrability, the wraith is likely to have the best chance to utilise them. The troll is a bit tougher and cheaper, but lacks the sorcery as a fallback option, and is vulnerable to it himself (only 2 will). As such? I think I'll plump for Khamul on a Fell Beast.



Spoiler:


Warning: Obsolete thoughts:-

This leaves me with a measly 131 points. Considering I wanted some sort of cavalry and another shield wall to round things out, that's not much! A Morannon Orc Captain with unit or cavalry unit would cost that just their own, so I'm going to have to play around with my points a little to get best value. Since I'm running low on Heroes for full warbands, rather than wasting points on another low tier hero, it makes more sense to bulk out my existing warbands. As such, I'm going to load another Black Numenorean and Morannon Orc into each of the existing warbands, at a total cost of 36 of my remaining points. I'll then add another 4 Orc Trackers to the existing unit.

With just 75 points left to play with, I'd better make them count! I've got two highly mobile monsters, 36 infantry, and three odd wargs. I really need another ten models or so to bulk out my force, but with no warband slots left, I'm essentially reduced now to existing Heroes and Fell Wargs. So what are my options? Well I could grab another 8 Fell Wargs, or perhaps Kardush and another 2 wargs. Alternatively, I could go in another direction completely, and fit all 12 of my Trackers on wargs! That would up their Strength/Defence to 4 effectively, as well as giving me a unit that can move and shoot to an extent at reasonable speed, and get a charge bonus. It would leave me short on numbers though...

What do you all think? Any advice on any stage of the thought process gratefully received!


EDIT:- But wait! I just clocked I paid for both Khamul and the barebones wraith I started with! So ditching ol' Barebones & rewinding a few steps, I actually have 191 points to play with! Suggestions, gentlemen? I could grab a Shaman or Captain on a warg with a full 10 warg riders accompanying him for exactly that number of points. Alternatively, I could take another Black Captain/Numenorean/Morannon formation and a handful of five or six Fell Wargs. Or maybe a Troll Chieftain and a smaller unit of Black Numenoreans/Morannon orcs? The floor is open to ideas!

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2016/05/02 11:27:03



 
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Just some thoughts:
You have very few models in this army. I wouldn't go to town without a shaman these days.
Better than Wargs are Warg riders, cheap, fast and every horse-cavalry is jealous of them
So I'd go for some mass, either riders, simple Orks, Uruks or if you want to stick to what you got, more of the Numenorean/Morannon groups, though combos like that are quite frowned upon over here . Troll chieftain sounds got to me, Burdur is very popular and the only downside of the chieftain is its higher price tag and less might of which you already have quite a lot.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Hmm...true, I am quite low on numbers. At this points level, your average WOMT army will be fielding at least 50 men, and your horde army 70-80. 40 is about how many your elite Elvish army has, and whilst I'm doing quite well on quality (F:4 AND S:4), I should probably try and squeeze about 50 guys in as a desirable number. The only problem is the Fell-Beast, he chews up almost a quarter of my points on his own. Here's two sample lists. What do you think?

List 1 wrote:
Morannon Orc Captain
5 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield -

Morannon Orc Captain
5 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield -

Shelob

Khamul w/Fell Beast
6 Mordor Orcs w/shield
6 Mordor Orcs w/spear

Orc Shaman w/warg
10 Orc Trackers w/warg


List 2 wrote:
Captain of the Black Guard
5 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Captain of the Black Guard
5 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Kardush
2 Black Guard of Barad-Dur
4 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Shelob 90

Khamul w/fell beast
12 Orc Trackers


Both clock in at around 50 models. In the former, I have a cavalry element, namely the Orc Trackers on wargs. I can buff them with a 5+ fury save using the shaman. On the flip side, the rest of my force suffers a quality reduction, whereas the other one squeezes in an extra two tracker bodies, Kardush (to Fury his orcs and buff Khamul in necessary), slightly upgraded unit captains, and a more elite third infantry unit.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/03 18:26:50



 
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I never played with Kardush or Shelob so far, so I can't comment on these.
Personally I would prefer the first list. As you pointed out, you need some more bodies
An idea: Take the first list, get rid of Shelob, and combine the two lists: Captains of Black Guard, and instead of the cheap Orks this group:
Kardush
2 Black Guard of Barad-Dur
4 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield
(don't know if that works with the points)
Though two Shamans might not be necessary, you could swap the Warg shaman for a Captain on Warg, giving you an additional point of might, which cavalry likes.
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






I think I prefer the second list.
Considering you are still quite low on models even with the 1st list, I feel that the added quality in the 2nd list makes up for the limited increase in quantity of the first list.
Also, Shelob seems like a lot of fun, I would leave her in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/04 01:35:05


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Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Thinking it over, if I'm going to truly benefit from Kardush's Fury and ability to soul-suck Orcs, I should really make his unit all Morannon Orcs. So I'm going to modify his unit in that direction. and then use the spare points plus a few Trackers in order to grab a banner for one of the Black Guard Captain units. I'm of the opinion that the gaining the Fury buff is worth losing the Fight 4 on the front row with no real advantage one way or the other, so I'm effectively swapping a pair of trackers for a banner. As banners actually confer Victory Points in some scenarios as well, I think it's probably worth the investment.

Captain of the Black Guard
5 Black Numenoreans
6 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Captain of the Black Guard
5 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield
1 Mordor Orc with Banner

Kardush
6 Morannon Orcs with Shield
5 Morannon Orcs with Spear and Shield

Shelob

Khamul w/fell beast
10 Orc Trackers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/04 09:50:17



 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







I'm considering a second variation on the above list, namely:-


Khamul w/ Fell Beast
5 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs w/shield, spear

The Shadow Lord w/Fell Beast
5 Black Numenoreans
5 Morannon Orcs w/shield, spear

Kardush
6 Morannon Orc w/Shield
4 Morannon Orc w/shield, spear
1 Morannon Orc w/spear

Captain of the Black Guard
4 Black Numenoreans
2 Morannon Orcs w/shield, spear
3 Morannon Orcs w/spear


Exactly 800 points. Two Fellbeasts, 42 infantry. No cavalry, but both monsters are flyers and thus mobile (and able to hurl troops down shieldwalls and ravage cavalry freely). No archers, but with the Shadow Lord, I can render most enemy bowfire useless if I keep my troops even remotely together. Three spellcasters total, and Kardush can boost either ringwraith if they get too low on Will. Not a huge amount of Might in my front line, but hopefully the rock solid nature of the shieldwalls will mean it isn't needed. I know from my last games that they're tough enough even a powerful 100+ point hero will have difficulty taking down more than seven or eight before running out of might/steam, and with the wraiths lobbing spells about and Kardush boosting with fury for a 5+ save, I should /hopefully be able to deal with any combat monsters without too much difficulty.

Thoughts?



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/21 13:48:40



 
   
Made in gb
Ghost of Greed and Contempt






Engaged in Villainy

I'm a bit rusty on tactics, but it looks like a solid list to me. I think you'll manage well without any "conventional" cavalry units, as your fell beasts should give you enough mobile punch.
Your magic phase could/should be pretty damaging, and you've got plenty of reasonably tough warriors, which I agree should be able to check a rampaging hero without needing might.
As for the lack of shooting, I don't think it's likely to impede you much, and you're probably better off having more shieldwall troops than spending the points on archers.

All in all, it seems like a good list, though I will defer to anyone with more recent experience - It has been a while since I last took to the field!

"He was already dead when I killed him!"

Visit my Necromunda P&M blog, here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/747076.page#9753656 
   
 
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