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It is now 18 months after a deadline and maxmini.eu went completely quiet after a brief period of communication and giving us all sorts of excuses and promises. This is an absolute disgrace and in the meantime they managed to release another line of miniatures, so it seems like money from the KS backers had been used for other purposes and we are left out in cold. I would like to warn everybody not to support those people that are at best completely inept and at worst simple scammers ripping gamers off.

Have you personally contacted them?

I'm seeing at least monthly updates in the update section.. and.. not news..

Also, the last update seems to detail the final miniature for the project and the penultimate one is talking about people locking in their pledges?

Perhaps a little less rant from the OP and a little more fact may help clarify the situation?

I have been in contact with the guys over the past 2 weeks. Always received a reply to my email within 24 hours. Not worried here.

I wouldn't go the length of accusing Maxmini of ripping people off, however, I can understand the frustration of the severe lack of communication by them.

@RobtheDestroyer; Contacting them and them replying sounds nice, they should reply on their KS page to the people who inquire there instead. Why do Backers need to contact the Maxmini e-mail personally instead of them actually caring about the KS inquiries on their KS page? A simple update once a week would have avoided so much hate.

Communication wise they are way, way below par and I doubt many Backers will ever order from them again after this KS disaster.

I am still confident they will deliver on their promise, but the damage done to their credibility is beyond repair imho. I think many wouldn't mind as much as they do now if they would've communicated with their Backers, as promised by their "Sheriff" (who appearantly either got shot (together with the Deputy) or got lost in town).

They haven't replied to any of my emails since January. They provide absolutely no concrete information in their updates- no dates, no details, nothing that would make you think "ok, this is really happening:. IF something appears at all, it is just some empty talk and more vague promise.
As for up[dates they provided, let me present a little timeline:

30 December- their office finally sorted and they are starting to work IMMEDIATELY... (yeah, right..)

2.5 months later (yeah, 2.5 months with no update at all) we get info that spreadsheets are closing and asked to do our spreadsheet YET AGAIN (despite doing it twice already). No reply both on KS messages and email whether my spreadsheet is correct and they can proceed or do I have to do something else yet again. Nothing.

7 days ,alter, on 17th March they announce "new sheriff in town" - new guy to deal with communication, promising all is going to be great etc. Nice delaying tactic because absolutely nothing changed, only communication received is presenting some digital picture of a model ONE MONTH later. That's what their new sheriff managed to achieve in a month. now, nearly 3 weeks later still no news about models, no dates, no details, nothing.

So pardon me for "ranting" but as far as I am concerned they have taken my hard earned money and ripped me off without delivering anything in return apart from empty promises (if i am lucky to even get those). I asked them for returning my money and if they have any honour left in them, they would do that, but instead there is usual silence.

This guys are an absolute joke and one that cost me a lot of money as well. I will never, ever have anything to do with them ever again, they are an absolute disgrace to wargaming world.

wardancer wrote:

This guys are an absolute joke and one that cost me a lot of money as well. I will never, ever have anything to do with them ever again, they are an absolute disgrace to gaming world.

As with all kick starters; you don't know what your getting until the end. Your comment above is most backers feelings about Robotech and Palladium Games.

Some kick-starters with company like reaper miniatures are almost spot on their ship dates and regular updates. Another company that I hear is great is Cool Mini or Not..

So it is a leap of faith when backing something... if its something to good to be true... maybe it is...

But I know your feelings.. Robotech has put my distrust level through the roof and only backed one other kickstarter since then...

Conan Game... and they had to break up the manufacturing to get better dates and they are still shipping a year late

at least yours are shipping... 1.5 year later we don't even know if they made anything yet...

welcome to kickstarter...

all my previous experiences with kickstarter were great, backed up 3 projects and went great.

Yeah, remember that Kickstarter isn't supposed to be a pre-order platform, despite many established companies treating it that way.

You help them fund a project, and if they are successful and don't run into too many post campaign snags (including incompetent staff or a poor business plan), you get whatever reward is associated with your funding level. Due to the huge variation in company capability, you might get a better than expected reward early, or you might get something disappointing late or not at all.

Every time you hit "Back This Project", you're gambling with your investment. Some of those gambles are probably in the 99%+ range that a project will ship on time and be high quality... any CoolMiniOrNot project, for example. Others are 50/50. I recently spent 20 USD to back an upcoming video game based on an old comic called BattleChasers. I give it maybe a 50% chance that it delivers at all. 10% chance that it delivers on time. For twenty bucks, I'm willing to take the risk. If it had been more, I wouldn't have done it.

I am fully aware that kickstarter might be bit of a gable- however my point is that this company still trades and is releasing other lines of miniatures in the meantime and i wanted to bring folks attention to that. I know that legally they aren't obliged to provide me anything , but nevertheless they caused a massive upset and disappointment to all the backers.

 Kriswall wrote:
Yeah, remember that Kickstarter isn't supposed to be a pre-order platform, despite many established companies treating it that way.

You help them fund a project, and if they are successful and don't run into too many post campaign snags (including incompetent staff or a poor business plan), you get whatever reward is associated with your funding level. Due to the huge variation in company capability, you might get a better than expected reward early, or you might get something disappointing late or not at all.

Every time you hit "Back This Project", you're gambling with your investment. Some of those gambles are probably in the 99%+ range that a project will ship on time and be high quality... any CoolMiniOrNot project, for example. Others are 50/50. I recently spent 20 USD to back an upcoming video game based on an old comic called BattleChasers. I give it maybe a 50% chance that it delivers at all. 10% chance that it delivers on time. For twenty bucks, I'm willing to take the risk. If it had been more, I wouldn't have done it.

BattleChasers could have been one of the greatest comic books ever. Maybe the last comic where I really could not wait for the next issue. I always thought it was a disservice to the fans they never let someone else take it over. The Firefly of comic books.....

 Genoside07 wrote:

wardancer wrote:

This guys are an absolute joke and one that cost me a lot of money as well. I will never, ever have anything to do with them ever again, they are an absolute disgrace to gaming world.

As with all kick starters; you don't know what your getting until the end. Your comment above is most backers feelings about Robotech and Palladium Games.

Some kick-starters with company like reaper miniatures are almost spot on their ship dates and regular updates. Another company that I hear is great is Cool Mini or Not..

So it is a leap of faith when backing something... if its something to good to be true... maybe it is...

But I know your feelings.. Robotech has put my distrust level through the roof and only backed one other kickstarter since then...

Conan Game... and they had to break up the manufacturing to get better dates and they are still shipping a year late

The Creature Caster backers are in the same boat as well. We are nearing the 2-year mark for the project funding and there is little to show for that large chunk of time passing. It is pretty pathetic. I think in Creature Caster's case the project was sold on hype alone with no real competency on the creator's part to manage such a complex operation.

assimilation Alien Host, pledged around £200,just passed the three year mark.

And they only have 399 backers to support, your 18 months isn't really anything to worry too much about

Biggest issue for me is that they appear to be actively lying.
I've ordered directly from them in the past and had no issues, they even made accommodation for errors I made with one of my orders.
With the KS (which I became a late backer of after the campaign ended) I only ordered product from their first two waves so I was able to 'close' my spreadsheet that they were using as a pledge manager.
I was then told by Kacper that my order would be shipped that week. Haven't heard a thing since in six months.

Take a look at the Alien vs Predator Kickstarter for a real cluster fetch.

This slowly shows that the idea behind how Kick-starter works is in't a good one. I had to learn it with a revolutionary 3d printer that is "almost ready to ship" for years now.

On the other hand we have Dream Forge who shipped more or less on time and the results were awesome.

 oldzoggy wrote:
This slowly shows that the idea behind how Kick-starter works is in't a good one. I had to learn it with a revolutionary 3d printer that is "almost ready to ship" for years now.

Absolutely incorrect. What it shows is that people expect that everything will go great and the people they are backing are already good to go, with everything laid out, and that no snags will be hit. In other words, they're expecting that they are buying something just as they would at a store. This is not the case, it never has been. The same issue persists within STEAM and the ability to back games in alpha.

In reality it is a way to get funding/investors for a project. Those using kickstarter need to start realizing you're investing in someone's pitch, and hoping it pans out. It's simply another way to get investors for a new product, which may or may not happen or work.

 troa wrote:

In reality it is a way to get funding/investors for a project. Those using kickstarter need to start realizing you're investing in someone's pitch, and hoping it pans out. It's simply another way to get investors for a new product, which may or may not happen or work.

Are there the same legal protections in place for Kickstarter backers as there are for investors who invest money the traditional way? If not, then Kickstarter isn't the same as traditional start-up investment. Kickstarter is its own weird situation where "it isn't a pre-order" and it isn't quite like regular investing either.

14 Kickstarters and 9 Indiegogo campaigns, all of them succesful, and by that I mean "theys delivered what they promised they wanted to create, and they were less than a year late".
3 more campaigns currently running and I have full confidence that all of them will deliver in the same way.

There are things you can look out for that help you minimize risk.

The maxmini kickstarter was risky to begin with. The whole campaign was so much over their heads in terms of scale, i.e. what three polish guys in a garage could handle (exaggerating a bit here), that at least the vehicle range seemed unrealistic. Still, I am sure they do their best to bring everything on its way.

 Kriswall wrote:
Yeah, remember that Kickstarter isn't supposed to be a pre-order platform, despite many established companies treating it that way.

You help them fund a project, and if they are successful and don't run into too many post campaign snags (including incompetent staff or a poor business plan), you get whatever reward is associated with your funding level. Due to the huge variation in company capability, you might get a better than expected reward early, or you might get something disappointing late or not at all.

Every time you hit "Back This Project", you're gambling with your investment. Some of those gambles are probably in the 99%+ range that a project will ship on time and be high quality... any CoolMiniOrNot project, for example. Others are 50/50. I recently spent 20 USD to back an upcoming video game based on an old comic called BattleChasers. I give it maybe a 50% chance that it delivers at all. 10% chance that it delivers on time. For twenty bucks, I'm willing to take the risk. If it had been more, I wouldn't have done it.

Hate to say it, but this is spot on. 100%

Kickstarter is a gambling den of sin and villainy, we best watch ourselves.....

I just wanted people to know what kind of company they are dealing with. Not only inept but actively lying to their backers. I am fully aware of dangers of kickstarter, but as I said, they are dealing outside of KS as well and more people know about them the better.

Do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence? Have you contacted KS?

Most of this is all circumstancial.

There is no point contacting KS as they take no responsibility for the projects, simply providing a platform for them.
As for evidence being anecdotal, i suggest you go to their Kickstarter page and see the comments section or go to maxmini.eu facebook as see people leaving comments there.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
On the other hand we have Dream Forge who shipped more or less on time and the results were awesome.

See also Bombshell, Infamy Miniatures (twice), and the model aspects of Mierce (though I accept that the rulebook for Darklands was massively late).

Dreamforge was really, really late for a bunch of stuff

estimated completion Nov 2012 but wave 2 only shipped sept 2013 and the final wave 3 in Jan 2015

(no issue with that as Mark worked hard and eventually delivered with a decent chunk of the delay being WGF being overbooked for production)

Communication is the difference.
Most backers wI'll be retained as promoters even on a very late project as long as you're communicating regularly and making progress.
Vanish and you'll lose almost everyone.