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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/03 18:35:58
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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Simple fix would be to give MCs and GCs damage tables, to signify them being damaged and losing effectiveness.
This also serves to equalize vehicles and MCs/GCs
Any unsaved wound, after the first unsaved wound, leads to a damage table roll: - I say this because after the first wound its fluffy that the beast or super robot(tau/eldar) would still be functioning. This could open up more rules that could modify the table or rule.... And I think that the vehicles should have an armor save that can be rolled off of any hit that would denote that hit deflecting off of the armor.
Table MC/GC
1 - Jarred - Adds +1 to hit until next turn. Both shooting and CC
2 - Shaken - Snapshooting next turn + needs 6's to hit in close combat until the next turn
3 - Stunned - Shaken results + all movement distances are halved until next turn
4 - Massive Hit - Weapon Destroyed + Unit halves all movement (movement penalty only occurs once if Massive hit is rolled in subsequent turns)
5 - Immobilized + Adds +2 to hit permanently. Both shooting and CC
6 - Critical Hit - Instantly suffers D3+1 wounds
One thing to consider though are D weapons and grav. MC's would be majorly nerfed by introducing a table like this if these weapons are allowed to exist in their current form.
My Ideas for changes are below!
Something no one has suggested is changing d weapons to be similar to how the FW R'varnas weapons work. If you're not familiar, basically they become more powerful as the target gets bigger.
Destroyer weapons table changes, based off of the cluster fire rule:
Infantry - Str 6 Ap5
Bulky - Str 7 Ap4
Very Bulky models, as well as those with the Bike/Jetbike/Beasts/Cavalry type, 8 Ap3
Extremely Bulky and Artillery/Monstrous Creature/Flying Monstrous Creature/ Vehicles Str 9 Ap2
Buildings and fortifications/GCs/Super Heavy Vehicles/Flyers/Walkers etc - Suffer D3+3 Str 10 Ap 1 hits.
- Something like this keeps the flavour and fluff of Destroyer weapons, in that their primary use is against other titans, but allows them to stay in the game which lets people use their toys.
Grav changes -
Still Wound based on armor save. Change to AP -. Add Rending. Add a new rule called Crippled
Crippled - Any unsaved wound caused by a grav weapon forces a unit to take a toughness test. Failed tests cause all non-vehicle units to halve all movement distances for the rest of the game. - represents their crushed armor hampering their ability to move.
Grav rules against vehicles would remain.
Thoughts?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/03 18:39:25
9000
8000
Knights / Assassins 800 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/03 18:40:27
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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As long as 2+ armor MCs exist, grav needs to be AP 2. Unless you are going to give real anti-tank weapons the ability to cause multiple wounds and ignore FNP. There is no ignoring the hole caused by a lascannon, even for a WK. I'd rather low RoF heavy weapons be given a role in the game than some table for MCs that never gets used because no one can hurt them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 18:41:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/03 18:46:25
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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for the damage chart you could just do a universal chart.
though personally i really hate permanent effects. epseically since they die soon after anyway.
should be somthing like
1 nothing
2-3 shaken
4-5 stunned
6 solid hit (+1 extra wound or hp)
7 critical hit (d3 additional or what not)
you need ap2 or greater to get 7s
grav weapons should only stun so its great for control and you stop the multi immobilized hp removal nonsense.
Instant death should be ether D3 or 6 wounds or some flavor of that. since for the most part 3-6 wounds is what most people have anyway.
D weapons honestly i dont have much of a problem with. i just have a problem with its proliferation. especially shooting versions.
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/04 06:55:18
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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I've toyed with the idea of removing the ability to ID from double-toughness, and instead weapons with a S 3 or more higher than a model's T would cause 2 wounds. Makes Lascannons much sexier without invalidating anything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/04 11:55:42
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Lethal Lhamean
Birmingham
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I much prefer the idea of making vehicles better rather than nerfing all MC's, god knows Nids don't need to be nerfed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/04 13:39:10
Subject: Re:Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Fiery Bright Wizard
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keep D the same, but limit access to it.
Swap up grav to wound on the 'bulk' of the model. this would leave them good against terminators and bikes (make sense), amazing vs. MC/GMC (what they are supposed to do), and mediocher vs. regular infantry (this gives a reason beyond point cost to use the other special weapons.
make things that are no monstrous creatures vehicles, and you've basically solved the issue of OP MCs.
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I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 07:24:42
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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I think Grav needs to remain AP2, for simplicity perhaps just have them inflict Strikedown vs MC's (so one hit on a large unit won't slow them down). Grav desperately needs to lose the instant Immobilised result; it should inflict Crew Shaken at most, and only inflict HP's if a target is already shaken (if at all, considering anti-vehicle is what melta weapons, krak missiles and las cannons are supposed to be for)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/05 11:30:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/05 09:56:46
Subject: Bringing MC's & GC's down to vehicle levels and how to fix grav and Dweapons
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Yep, As mentioned before, the Immobilized Result (and multiple wounds caused thereof) should be gone. That's probably one of the main reasons (if not THE main reason) why Grav is OP.
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