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Hey all. I'm completely new to AoS (I never played Fantasy when that was still around either). But recently I have gotten interested in playing and was wondering how people go about making a list for a game and how people try to balance it. Is it done by wounds or what? (Also I know that there will soon be the new handbook thing out that's supposed to have rules for competitive play but want something for the mean time.)

There are a few fan-made comp systems around at the moment, SCGT probably being the main one. Have a look at www.scrollbuilder.com

On the other hand, you could play RAW and just discuss with your opponent, or tailor the forces to the scenario you're using.

I'll have to give those systems a look. The main issue I have with discussing is that I haven't played yet so have no real knowledge of how good or bad any units are.

I'm not sure if you have or are planning on getting the starter set but it provides you with two pretty balanced forces and will give you a good idea of how different types of units balance up against eachother.

From what I gather people in regions often use one of the player comps and when you set up the game or even meet for straight up PUGame you can use one: Clash, SCGT, SDK, Azyr, other versions. They do "points" and also houserules like measure from base and clarify wounds and such, now clarified in the AoS GW FAQ.

You can also eyeball things as you set up if you are in an extreme sitaution but the fear speculated by the Internetz that says what's stopping one from 18 bloodthirsters or whatever BS just doesn't happen.

+1 to SCGT for building armies (and the rest of the comp pack is solid as well, with smart and relatively conservative house rules)

- Salvage

 VeteranNoob wrote:
You can also eyeball things as you set up if you are in an extreme sitaution but the fear speculated by the Internetz that says what's stopping one from 18 bloodthirsters or whatever BS just doesn't happen.

Agreed, I've yet to see anything completely ridiculous like that happen at my FLGS.

I would use the SCGT comp pack for now. It's dead simple to use. Failing that I would eyeball it. Playing by wounds is not a great way to judge forces really.

 Bottle wrote:
Playing by wounds is not a great way to judge forces really.

(Though it's waaaaay better than playing by model count alone )

- Salvage

I personally don't like SCGT but I would still mirror the suggestion of others here. I would say to play a game or two using SCGT's point costs but none of the house rules just to get some experience with basic AoS. Once you've done that you will be able to understand what the SCGT rule modifications do, and make an educated guess as to if you will like them or not. Either way, if you are having a blast with SCGT then stick with it and you're all good! If you want an easier, more straightforward system then take a look at Azyr comp, while if you want tighter balance and more granularity try out PPC.

I've been using SCGT as a stop-gap as well so we could play while waiting on the General's Handbook. I have to say, it is really solid.

It has one failing which is that options aren't accounted for as far as I can tell... so if a mount can be taken by a model, you're almost penalized for not taking it.

Beyond that... is pretty great, and if the General's book is as solid, we'll be playing a lot of AoS in the future.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
It has one failing which is that options aren't accounted for as far as I can tell... so if a mount can be taken by a model, you're almost penalized for not taking it.

Just remember that mounts generally lead to your models being taller, so given true line of sight, makes them easier to pick out. So it's a trade off between being faster and having a couple of extra attacks or being easier to hide in a crowd.

I also echo some of the previous posters - just grab one of the popular 'points' systems and go with it. There's absolutely no need to grab all the house rules that come along with those comps, especially if you're just starting out. With my group at the moment we use Clash pool choices with our own set of house rules (some are from the Clash Comp itself, while others are our own making).

So if you're just looking for something to attempt to balance your forces better than you can do yourself, then easy enough to grab one of those points systems and just have at it.

Yet because seeing one tip of a feather on an oversized hat is enough to draw line of sight to a model, very little short of a large monster or solid obstacle will actually block line of sight. If it were not true line of sight you would have a point, but with how AoS does it that is a disadvantage which only works one time in a thousand, unfortunately.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
tip of a feather on an oversized hat

The bane of playing Freeguild!

Dai wrote:
I'm not sure if you have or are planning on getting the starter set but it provides you with two pretty balanced forces and will give you a good idea of how different types of units balance up against eachother.

I currently am planning to get the Malignants Start Collecting Box. (And am in the proccess of convincing a friend to pick up the Skaven one).

I would say don't bother with a point system UNLESS you find some players or player who uses it and likes it. Come the summer a new point system will come out.

Problem with this is, you will be learning a new system that will be invalidated in less than less 2 months from now. Is it worth the time and effort to learn it? Second is, you might like this point system now and when GW comes out with theirs, you may not like it, and be biased and be upset because your play style could change.

If possible, I say wait unless you find players who use a system to get games in.

It seems like there will be some groups that carry on with a given comp (I know there's a 90+ chance I will), but your point about having opponents is still valid.

But to be fair, the comps are very simple (even I can do it ) and you get your pick of points running either 1:5 models in many core infantr cases or 5:5 models. Biggest Are the simple house rules in the comp--everyone measures from base, what counts as a scoring unit, how to save vs, wounds...that's about it, I think. If you have a larger group you might find it as easy as many players just use one for their games and any events. We are switching from Clash to SCGT at the moment and it's a smooth transition.

Best!

Comps seem to universally house rule measuring base-to-base, making the 'acting' part of silly rules optional, and nerfing summoning in some manner. Beyond that it depends on the comp.