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2014/04/01 23:29:28
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
DaveC wrote: Hmm would that be the same SDE that did $15,118 yesterday versus $34 and hasn't dropped below $12,000 in a day in over a week (or $10,215 ever) versus a max of $6,379 in the last week? it's the little things I guess.
Actually looking at Kicktraq I've lost all respect for the Hotlist Recon remains number 2 yet SDE has slipped to 7th, I don't get it based on those figures (I know that kicktraq uses other criteria as well but really?)
The hot list depends on % above goal, which is why companies like Mantic, CMON and Mercs set artificially low initial funding goals.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2014/04/01 23:30:35
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
DaveC wrote: Hmm would that be the same SDE that did $15,118 yesterday versus $34 and hasn't dropped below $12,000 in a day in over a week (or $10,215 ever) versus a max of $6,379 in the last week? it's the little things I guess.
Actually looking at Kicktraq I've lost all respect for the Hotlist Recon remains number 2 yet SDE has slipped to 7th, I don't get it based on those figures (I know that kicktraq uses other criteria as well but really?)
The hot list depends on % above goal, which is why companies like Mantic, CMON and Mercs set artificially low initial funding goals.
Not true.
The No 1. on that list today isn't even funded yet, and arguably struggling to do so.
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
2014/04/02 02:36:01
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
You keep saying you want it to succeed, but I've not seen you say anything positive at all about the game. You've been negative about every aspect of the game and kickstarter discussed. What is it in here that you like enough about it to care?
2014/04/02 03:10:42
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
You keep saying you want it to succeed, but I've not seen you say anything positive at all about the game. You've been negative about every aspect of the game and kickstarter discussed. What is it in here that you like enough about it to care?
As an outside observer(this kickstarter hasn't looked very interesting to me, and the comments in the latter part of this thread aren't helping), I wouldn't call his comments negative, but critical of the campaign. There is a subtle difference between the two- the first the person doesn't feel there are any redeeming qualities, the second may feel that something can be changed to make it better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/02 03:11:37
I dunno, the last 12 pages of this thread have been pretty much the same 4 people going round & round in circles about how terrible this KS is and how it is failing and horrible and terrible and bad and Myth was so much better and how can you not see how terrible it is because it's bad and you should feel bad for liking it and you're blind if you don't see things this way because clearly it's a bad deal and not Myth. All despite the fact that it has 2100 backers and is 800% funded, clearly it's doing terrible /rolleyes.
As somebody with absolutely no interest in Myth and only a passing interest in Mercs, I find this KS to be decent. Acceptable. Alright. The style is fantastic and the game looks fun enough to play on occasion. If it fails in that regard I'll have a lot of cool miniatures that I'll find a use for: Infinity, RPGs, Pulp Alley, other board games. Maybe I'll even play Mercs with em.
The KS isn't an astounding deal by any means, but it's acceptable. I'd put it a few levels above Dwarf King's Hold which was a fun game but terrible components for the same price. I find it much more interesting than Level 7 Omega Protocol and at a lower price point (and the rules for that are online, so I could always play that game with these minis and boards). The KS doesn't blow me away or urge me to spend a thousand dollars on too-good-to-pass-up deals, but I certainly feel like I'll get my money's worth out of the stuff I'm getting. I'm more satisfied with this product as-is at this point than I was with the second Reaper Bones KS, that's for darn sure.
Dwarf King's Hold is also regularly a fraction of the price (30-40 with shipping easily), has all the necessary components in plastic regardless of how long they're on the board, and would have piles of extra junk included if it was being run as a Kickstarter.
Which it isn't.
...Yet?
Totally OT though. And my DKH box is totally thrashed. Maybe Project Pandora would be a better analogy? I still don't own that one though.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
I need the money from my pulled MERCS pledge to buy Games Workshop products.
True story.
Heh. Good reason.
For me its the Mierce Kickstarter. I'm seriously debating pulling my MERCS pledge, not because of all the Eeyore-ish reasons documented in this thread, but because I'm probably pulling all my other pledges from _all_ other projects right now to funnel into Mierce. I already dropped a few other projects, this is one of the last ones remaining.
I just grabbed a few of the GW terrain sets that have been discontinued, so it was really a "get them now or never" situation - and I've wanted all of the kits in question since I first saw them but just never got around to it. I missed a couple of them entirely as well, sadly.
Kalamadea wrote: I dunno, the last 12 pages of this thread have been pretty much the same 4 people going round & round in circles about how terrible this KS is and how it is failing and horrible and terrible and bad and Myth was so much better and how can you not see how terrible it is because it's bad and you should feel bad for liking it and you're blind if you don't see things this way because clearly it's a bad deal and not Myth. All despite the fact that it has 2100 backers and is 800% funded, clearly it's doing terrible /rolleyes.
As somebody with absolutely no interest in Myth and only a passing interest in Mercs, I find this KS to be decent. Acceptable. Alright. The style is fantastic and the game looks fun enough to play on occasion. If it fails in that regard I'll have a lot of cool miniatures that I'll find a use for: Infinity, RPGs, Pulp Alley, other board games. Maybe I'll even play Mercs with em.
The KS isn't an astounding deal by any means, but it's acceptable. I'd put it a few levels above Dwarf King's Hold which was a fun game but terrible components for the same price. I find it much more interesting than Level 7 Omega Protocol and at a lower price point (and the rules for that are online, so I could always play that game with these minis and boards). The KS doesn't blow me away or urge me to spend a thousand dollars on too-good-to-pass-up deals, but I certainly feel like I'll get my money's worth out of the stuff I'm getting. I'm more satisfied with this product as-is at this point than I was with the second Reaper Bones KS, that's for darn sure.
A. We never said that people who are happy with it are blind, or anything like that. However, you aren't happy with it being a stand alone game, as you said you could just use the models for other things. I don't look at games as a vehicle for porting models to something else. I want this game to be 100% stand alone, support itself and be worth its price for what it is. That's really what the last 12 pages have been talking about.
B. All the current backers are mostly people from Myth, pledging to support the Mercs company because they liked Myth. Or they are Mercs players, and this is a phenomenal deal to pick up plastic versions of pretty much all the factions, plus each one looks to have 2 alternate/new sculpts per faction. This is a second question that has been asked over the last 12 pages: Is this KS really only a vehicle to port Mercs from metals to plastics? Or what does the Recon game have need of all 12 Mercs factions for? It is a co-op game where everyone plays the same faction together.
C. Yes, as of this instant, Recon has 2165 backers and raised $356,518. That is incredibly successful. But the core game isn't worth the $60 they want me to pay in this KS, and they haven't even hinted at the retail price. If $60 is the retail price, then this is a terrible KS price. I compare this to Shadows of Brimstone, who for $75 a game box gave me 32 miniatures. At the equivalent $200 level, SoBdoubled the miniatures. So, Recon gives me 41 miniatures and a dice game and TT rules, SOB gave me 129 miniatures.
Flying Frog Productions and Mercs are about the same size companies, FFP just has a proven history of actually making games for longer.
So, no one here is saying that you should pull your pledge, or rethink your backing position. However, when compared to comparable boardgames that I play, Recon doesn't stand up on its own. Like I said, I don't look at a game and think "Hmm, I could totally pay extra per miniature to get this and then sh!tcan the game itself, because it is terrible." I buy games based on their own merits. In this case, Recon doesn't stand up as a miniatures boardgame.
What most of the 4 of us that you drag through the mud have been asking the past 12 pages is: Why doesn't Mercs want any non-Myth/Mercs players to buy their game? They aren't pitching this KS to us. That is what we're saying. The $1k increase in the past 50 hours would indicate to any analytical person that a problem, even a hiccup, exists, and maybe some attention should be paid. But, you seem to have the same disinterested opinion that Mercs does, and Unicorns rainbows everywhere = success.
2014/04/02 21:04:53
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
New update has been posted, showing EU models. They really look awful. Really skinny and poorly proportioned. I liked a fair few of the others they showed off initially, so these are a real letdown.
I can understand where you guys are coming from. The problem is when you dwell on the negatives repeatedly it starts to just look like you have it in for the game for whatever reason. To say then you are backing it comes over illogical as what you want is almost being defeated by the negative spin being spun.
Does the Recon KS represent good value based on minis on offer a core game level? Probably not at assassin level but at agent level I think the proposition shifts and especially If it hits 500k or more..
Like Kalamadea I did not buy Mercs or Myth so my motivation is totally different and maybe for me at least. The OPFOR level represents a good deal or at least I see it that way if it hits 400k, which I think it surely will. I will admit at 500k the deal has a lot more pull, again I think it will hit this level and some.
Am I satisfied and content with my pledge & what is on offer currently - yes. I understand if others may not.
After looking at the videos of the game in Beta form I feel comfortable with it and I am sure it will be polished even further as the game is tested and developed in pre-production.
Will the game be a success with gamers and commercially viable at this stage, who knows? You just take a punt on what's available and what floats your boat. Great games don't always become a commercial mega success and Earth Reborn springs to mind. Does the KS have to be irresistible to want to buy in, I don't think so.
Looking at the more recent comments on BGG regarding Myth post BGG FAQ. These give me some comfort that the guys at Megacon can produce a good game albeit the rules needed a lot of clarification to discover this. Hopefully they have learnt some lessons from Myth?
Not having done a KS before I was quite cautious about jumping in but after a little more investigation and taking on the cons mentioned and what I perceived as Pros. I am comfortable where Recon is going at this time.
Could the Megacon guys provide a bit more communication. This I could go with but I can also understand if they have their hands full at the moment albeit a problem of their own making.
2014/04/02 21:23:02
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
At 500k, beyond the fact they require you to fork about 100$ to get the juicy things unlocked, you will have in my opinion the stuff the game should have starter with (maybe missing a few models).
At the current state though, I wonder if it will hit 400k, the almost flat-line it has hit, has surprised me, I was expecting an uphill battle to 400k because the stretch goals are not inspiring and the free stuff been offered are minimal, but even then I was expecting a faster progress.
The project has practically stagnated, it has accumulated most of its core potential and is in desperate need of new blood infusion.
This can be done either by making the deal irresistible, or by creator promotion and participation, or ideally from both.
2014/04/02 21:26:02
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
The EU video offers a little more insight at least although I can agree the sculpts could be better and I prefer the proportions on the two with helmets than those without. The Leader I can understand being skinnier as a female but they should bulk out the sergeants legs a little or at least move them away from the exaggerated akimbo position although he does look a bit better in the video..
Also picked this up on BGG and it would appear the V2 Mercs TT rules and Conflict game will ship in the Summer once they are done i.e. earlier than the KS.
That is a bit silly. Having the guys with helmets having the beret rolled and worn on a loop on the shoulder or even on the back of the belt would be a lot better.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2014/04/02 22:11:09
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
Now this is one point I can agree with. Berets on helmets just wouldn't work for a start, unless you had Velcro to keep them attached LOL and that just wouldn't happen.
The beret in the lapel would also work.
They should make them either beret and faces or helmets only.
One cool thing they could do in the KS is produce swappable plastic head variations and not just for EU even if it was just a couple for each faction. Would be a nice touch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PsychoticStorm wrote: They have gone to adepticon, so I guess we will hear more things from there.
It will be interesting to see if there is a KS bounce effect from Adepticon.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/02 22:14:34
2014/04/02 22:20:33
Subject: Re:MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
it's the proportions of the legs that are off as well look where her knees are the upper leg is too long and the lower too short she's not the only one to suffer from this.
I dislike a lot of the EU sculpts which is a pity because they are packaged with the CCC who I think are the strongest design wise which is probably intentional. If it wasn't for stretch goals (that there are) applying only to the $120 I'd take just the Counter Threat set but then it's $60 with nothing extra added might as well get it retail.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/04/02 22:55:06
2014/04/02 23:11:45
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
Wow... that is a terrible model. Whomever is sculpting those did NOT do Myth.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2014/04/02 23:16:03
Subject: MERCS: Recon – Kickstarter: Near future coop miniatures board game - @$355k, 3 weeks to go
(more)
(building)
(less)
rainbows everywhere = success.
