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Since it is established that the index is devoid of choices and no one outside is happy with it how do we fix the model profiles. For instance, Grotesques are really bad how would you make them worth their current points? (Frankly we can do this with 88% of this book)

 Gibblets wrote:
Since it is established that the index is devoid of choices and no one outside is happy with it how do we fix the model profiles. For instance, Grotesques are really bad how would you make them worth their current points? (Frankly we can do this with 88% of this book)

I've kind of been pondering this, and I think the first step is to decide whether you want to come up with relatively small changes that make things playable (but not great), or if you want to basically overhaul the entire faction given how much stuff doesn't work well at the moment.

Like, we could pump up the Wounds and Attacks on grotesques and let haemonculi join them (for FNP 4+). Maybe they'd be "good" then, but I'm still not sure I'd be excited about using them as I was in previous editions. And at the same time, I'm always reluctant to just power up the offense of units because that approach tends to be power creepy, but also the current rules don't really give them a role outside of being beefy melee monsters.

Similarly, wyches are just really underwhelming right now, and their No Escape rule is basically just a source of bonus damage that your opponent has too much control over. So we could give them a bunch of additional attacks to make them hit harder and they'd be yet another generic melee unit for us, but I'd still find that less satisfying than older versions of the unit where I could use them as tarpits or vehicle hunters or simply feel super fast charging out of a moving raider.

So it's like... do you go with the more practical and simple fix, or do you try to make something actually cool that requires an overhaul?

I expected an overhaul. Because how many unit profiles do we need in this book who's sole role is "I kill light infantry". Seems like 70% of our book is tooled for this so some shifting of focus will be required. Christ their unit ability should go.

Well I'll shout into the void. Grotesques should get ignores cover on their Liquifers, Dev wounds back on their melee, T6, W5. Special rule being: They regenerate D3 wounds a turn, can stack with Haemonculous similar ability. Maybe that's enough to let them hurt elites and tie up the enemy for a bit.

For grotesques, a simple fix would be to give them a couple extra wounds and attacks and let haemonculi join them (for 4+ FNP). They're meant to be the sledgehammer coven unit that hits hard and takes a beating, but I'm always reluctant to give anything too much of a raw power boost.

A fluffy (but probably overly complicated) idea would be nod back to their old 5th edition running amok rule. (I forget the name.) Basically, during your command phase, you can kick the grots in the right direction and empty out their drug dispensers, driving them into a murder frenzy. They become battleshocked for the rest of the game and must move towards and charge the nearest enemy unit every turn, but you double their current/remaining Wounds and their Attacks characteristic.

The idea being that you're putting them in murder mode and giving up what little control you ever had; just turning them loose on the enemy army. Mechancially, you're giving them raw power and durability in excess of what you'd expect for their points cost, but you're making it easy for your opponent to mitigate their effectiveness by leading them astray with sacrificial units or decoys. Which seems very fluffy.

I also feel like there's room for a coven-themed detachment that lets you tweak the stats of your grotesques and engines pre-game. Something akin to the 7th edition formation rules for powered up grots. So you might end up with grots with extra arms (bonus weapons with Extra Attacks) or creepy armor or whatever. It would be a good excuse to get creative with conversions and make our mad scientists feel less homogenous with their pet projects.

There's a lot sad about our book. The only good place to put shredders on is our scourge and that unit is our best dark lance units. Disintegrators are a bad joke and only a slightly better heavy bolter in every sense of the use of one. Incubi had their strength, WS and other stats nerfed for some weird reason even though stuff only got tougher. Liquifiers are pretty weak and i'd rather use a shredder for like every situation instead except shredders have no good unit to be on.

If i'll give GW something is they cycle around which units DE have that are good every new codex or edition though.

So I brought out my Talos/Cronos themed Drukhari for our Sunday game last week.
Other than being annoyed that my max squad sizes for Talos/Cronos have been reduced? They functioned quite well.

Team game, 3k pts per side.
Team A) my Drukhari, some SM, some Custodes.
Team B) 1k pts Tau, 2k worth of Imperial Knights.
Victory: Team A

The Cronos squads mauled the out of several pathfinder & stealth suit squads, but not quite killing them all. Wich allowed the Talos units to get the kills & become fully empowered.

After that? The Talos units went onto either kill or do the majority damage to 3 Armigars, a Paladin(?) & outright killed a FW something or other (big knight, segmented looking carapace) and a Hammerhead.

MY portions of the turns were very fast & although the damage I put out was critically important, as was the VPs my Archon & Venom were achieving, it almost seemed like I wasn't involved in much of the game.

I do have to give credit to my Imperial teammates. They weren't super effective in any given turn, but they did make a giant CC mess that kept the Knights bogged down in melee for much of the game. Wich in turn allowed me to shoot them up with near impunity.