Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Considering starting a Kill Team campaign. What are the main differences between the official GW Kill team rule set and the unofficial one from Herald of Ruins? Which one do you prefer – and why?

Heralds of Ruin is far superior because they have done the following:
- Added upgrades and weapons not in stock 40k but are great for skirmish games
- Handle things like Leadership better
- Added entire characters to fit skirmish games
- Handle cover etc. better.
- Great handling of actual campaign scenarios.

It's great for skirmish games and handles campaign series of games well.

Chalk and cheese, my friend.

GW KT is basically 40k as a skirmish game. It works pretty well, but suffers from Chaos Daemon syndrome ("randomise everything." "What do you mean 'everything'?" "EVERYTHING!!")

HoR KT includes interactive terrain, minidexes specialised for kill team and basically lets you play out action movies. It's the next best thing to INQ28.

GW is very quick and easy, and nobody will ever be left going "HUH??"

HoR is very deep and interesting, but has some wacky rules that can throw people off.

if its a small dedicated group do HoR, if you're running an event or something with people who will be inexpereienced with HoR GW is a better way to go.

Just curious, what makes GW quick and easy and what gives HoR its (tactical?) depth?

The first is list building. HoR requires a special mini-codex for each faction where you buy each model individually. This gets rid of some of the pitfalls of the GW system I will explain later but it includes a few units that don't technically exist in the base game along with wargear as well. Add to that the game has some differences (his you move through terrain, how you "take cover", grenades and flamers all have totally different, more suited for a skirmish game rules).

The GW game just uses 250 point lists from the base codex with no detachments and no vehicle above combined AV32. This is instantly easy to understand for players wanting to build a list and play, and then as soon as you get into the game your units act normally. The issue with this is some units are too large base size wise to actually include-want regular AM infantry? Here take 25 schlubs, base! This is how the individual model buying of HoR can be nice. Plus the Mission Specialists GW put in are both imbalanced and a no-brainer. Your lowest AP weapon should prooooobably be ignored cover. Your heavy weapon should be relentless. Then pick the third one, usually something like shred on a melee character.

For Heralds of Ruin Kill Team, we actually take common sense into account as well.

Everyone is welcome to join us on the FB page where we are currently working through a rewrite of all the army lists. After that will be the main rules and missions.

The group name is : The Kill Team Expansion Group (Unofficial)

Hope to see more people there!

HoR also includes campaign rules.

Also, HoR is potentially less balanced in pick up games. Keep in mind the type of people playing HoR rarely do this, but there is always a possibility to have your Meganob/Terminator themed list, go up against either a Plasma themed list.

IMHO, HoR works best in campaign mode, where list tailoring (either accidental or purposeful) can be countered.

Hunam0001 wrote:
HoR also includes campaign rules.

Also, HoR is potentially less balanced in pick up games. Keep in mind the type of people playing HoR rarely do this, but there is always a possibility to have your Meganob/Terminator themed list, go up against either a Plasma themed list.

IMHO, HoR works best in campaign mode, where list tailoring (either accidental or purposeful) can be countered.

That may have been true before, but we are reworking all the army lists and doing better balancing and caps on units. Come join us to see and maybe help out!

 foto69man wrote:

Hunam0001 wrote:
HoR also includes campaign rules.

Also, HoR is potentially less balanced in pick up games. Keep in mind the type of people playing HoR rarely do this, but there is always a possibility to have your Meganob/Terminator themed list, go up against either a Plasma themed list.

IMHO, HoR works best in campaign mode, where list tailoring (either accidental or purposeful) can be countered.

That may have been true before, but we are reworking all the army lists and doing better balancing and caps on units. Come join us to see and maybe help out!

Already signed up to help with the Ork list

So I notice the rules for terminators and the points values that were put in battlescribe are off by 5 points (also, it breaks if you try to give the termie a heavy weapon)

The reason I'm asking here and not in the bs feedback thread is the date on the bs data is newer than the timestamp on the space marine rules on the HoR site.

Is there a space marine ruleset newer than 3.2?

I've been looking into the one HoR Kill Team army list I can compare with a codex, but they don't seem to quite match. Are the HoR army lists based on earlier versions of the codices? (I've only been looking at Harlequins so far ...)

Anything 3.1 has been updated for 7th.

I'm pretty sure the Harlequin list was made way before the current codex was released, and was based off the old Chapter Approved one they had back in 4th.

I just now realized that there are dates on the site, and the Harlie list is before 2015, so, my bad.

Must say I'm impressed by the work put into this by the HoR community.

There's a good group on Facebook, devoted to updating the rules.

I think there's a beta version of a new Harlequin list on there.

Just wanted to update everyone. Newer drafts of the rules are up. See the links in my signature for the website.