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Long story short, I'm looking at building a pure aspect army for Eldar, so no knights or wind riders etc.

While flicking through I noticed the shining spears.
They seem pretty solid and can pick off elite units quite easily on the charge.
Also able to hunt armour to a degree.

And since hawks got hit by the FAQ, wondering if these guys could fill the role.
Not just that, they look pretty cool too.

So the plan is to purely in aspects, would these guys have a place?
Or are they too bad to consider in a list.

Thanks.

You don't know how many times I have revisited Shining Spears. As a long time Saim-Hann player, I want them to be useful soooo bad.

Let's address each of your points:
"They seem pretty solid and can pick off elite units quite easily on the charge."
-If they had Hit & Run or grenades, this might be true, but going last with 1 attack (+1 for charge) really isn't going to kill much. You might kill a 5-man Marine unit, but did you really need to spend so many points to do it?

"Also able to hunt armour to a degree."
- Str 6 Lance needs 6's against most targets and the lighter vehicles can be dealt with even easier by so many other units. Admittedly not in an all Aspect Army, but I am addressing the overall reason you don't see them.

--Spears become a bit better when fielding with an Autarch since he will deny overwatch (Banshee Mask) and go first (grenades) to soften the attacks on the Spears. If you can field an Autarch and get the Spears the +1WS from the Aspect Host, sure they are worth it, but you need to use them carefully and NEVER by themselves. Star Lance is a MUST

Keep them near your Reapers, or have them follow your Fire Dragon Transports. Use them as spare wounds for your Warlord and as counter attack units.

--

Don't you mean "Str 6 lance needs 4s against most targets"?

The bulk majority of vehicle targets are AV10 in the rear, all the way up to Leman Russes.

They also have Lance if you want to try your luck against AV13+.

the_scotsman wrote:
Don't you mean "Str 6 lance needs 4s against most targets"?

The bulk majority of vehicle targets are AV10 in the rear, all the way up to Leman Russes.

You hit Walkers on front armour. most of those are AV12+. Most vehicles with AV10 in the rear are not going to be chargable by Spears. You'll need to turboboost to get in range and while you are waiting for the next turn to mo....oh, sorry your Spears are dead now.

If your local meta has plenty of LoS blocking terrain, that could work. My area is hit or miss. Some tables have LoS blocking, but others just have lots of cover-providing terrain. Spears need to not be shot-at to work. if you can do that, Spears are good. if you can't (or play Tau), Spears are just points spend doing nothing.

--

Looking at them they seem like they want to work the same way as the Dark Eldar Reaver Jet Bikes, doing all their damage on the charge, but since it's their weapons and not Hammer of Wrath that they rely on the lack of assault grenades and Hit and Run really hurts (particularly when they're nearly 10pts a bike more expensive than the Reavers). At least they have Skilled Rider.

I think if you're careful in how you use them they'll work out but don't expect them to be able to do as much work as any of the other Aspects.

Thanks alot for all the info so far

I think it's more of me wanting them to work that's an issue.
If I throw an Autarch in there with them to help on the charge it may help then.
I'm also grabbing the star lance for the exarch aswell, since the S8 and lance will help out alot.

What I don't want to do however is fall into the trap of throwing points at them to try and make them work, as that really doesn't help me.

The +1 WS should help them out even more as its essential they hit since they are low on attacks as it is.


With an all aspect army I'll have to try and give the enemy plenty of valid targets anyway, so hoping they ignore them to begin with.

I've had some success in using them in a hammer and needle capacity.

Have them support Banshees as they move up, have the banshees hammer a unit and then have the spears needle home.

5 Spears (total including Exarch) w/ Star Lance and an Autarch should be good enough

Cheers guys, I'll get some ordered and test them out.
Needed an excuse for some anyway.

I'll try running 5 and the autarch and see how that works out.

I'll have dragons, avengers and banshees/scorpions in serpents anyway, so should draw the fire a bit.

Should also keep the dark reapers alive and ticking longer too.

They're junk.

I've recently been playing a '4-flavours of jetbikes' army, with Skyrunners, Skyweavers, Reavers and Shining Spears.

Shining spears are hands-down the worst of the four. If they don't kill all of a unit, they will be stuck in combat forever. Str 3 Ap 3 just doesn't cut the mustard. Especially with only 1 base attack each. At 25 points each, they're very fragile for a T4 combat unit.

If you're looking for a unit like them, consider Reavers. Loads of fun to use, and suprisingly efficient in combat with cluster caltrops. They get H&R, so they can leave combat. only 5+ armour hurts, but FNP and combat drugs may mitigate that. As does 3+ jink thanks to skilled rider.

I've also been impressed by Skyweavers. A unit of two with zephyrglaives (a not so cheap 120 points), will output 8 Str 5 Ap 2 attacks on the charge. With H&R, 2 wounds and shuriken cannons, they are a handy nuisance to finish off small straggler units.

Do not bother with Shining spears. Especially purchasing their gakky models. Just proxy some skyrunners as them for a few games, and you'll soon realize they're not worth much at all.

Shining Spears are perhaps the only, if not one of the few, units that your opponent doesn't mind spamming.

They are decent. But don't expect them to win games.

Belly wrote:They're junk.

I've recently been playing a '4-flavours of jetbikes' army, with Skyrunners, Skyweavers, Reavers and Shining Spears.

Shining spears are hands-down the worst of the four. If they don't kill all of a unit, they will be stuck in combat forever. Str 3 Ap 3 just doesn't cut the mustard. Especially with only 1 base attack each. At 25 points each, they're very fragile for a T4 combat unit.

If you're looking for a unit like them, consider Reavers. Loads of fun to use, and suprisingly efficient in combat with cluster caltrops. They get H&R, so they can leave combat. only 5+ armour hurts, but FNP and combat drugs may mitigate that. As does 3+ jink thanks to skilled rider.

I've also been impressed by Skyweavers. A unit of two with zephyrglaives (a not so cheap 120 points), will output 8 Str 5 Ap 2 attacks on the charge. With H&R, 2 wounds and shuriken cannons, they are a handy nuisance to finish off small straggler units.

Do not bother with Shining spears. Especially purchasing their gakky models. Just proxy some skyrunners as them for a few games, and you'll soon realize they're not worth much at all.

Belly is correct in every way.

Galef wrote:You don't know how many times I have revisited Shining Spears. As a long time Saim-Hann player, I want them to be useful soooo bad.

Let's address each of your points:
"They seem pretty solid and can pick off elite units quite easily on the charge."
-If they had Hit & Run or grenades, this might be true, but going last with 1 attack (+1 for charge) really isn't going to kill much. You might kill a 5-man Marine unit, but did you really need to spend so many points to do it?

"Also able to hunt armour to a degree."
- Str 6 Lance needs 6's against most targets and the lighter vehicles can be dealt with even easier by so many other units. Admittedly not in an all Aspect Army, but I am addressing the overall reason you don't see them.

--Spears become a bit better when fielding with an Autarch since he will deny overwatch (Banshee Mask) and go first (grenades) to soften the attacks on the Spears. If you can field an Autarch and get the Spears the +1WS from the Aspect Host, sure they are worth it, but you need to use them carefully and NEVER by themselves. Star Lance is a MUST

Keep them near your Reapers, or have them follow your Fire Dragon Transports. Use them as spare wounds for your Warlord and as counter attack units.

--

Grenades - ah grenades... something you must have on the internet as every assault happens through cover... right?!? Right?!? wrong. Its a nice to have but not essential. To be clear - the autarch you listed does stop overwatch with the mask but him having grenades does nothing for the unit - assault grenades are applied per model, not unit.

I have 10 and would love to run them for laughs - but to do so you need to add baharroth (for H&R) and then an autarch (for the banshee mask) and then ideally a Farseer (for fortune and doom or prescience). All of which makes it an ok deathstar for an absurd points cost - its just not that good for its cost,

What about adding a farseer or 2 into a squad of 10? Shrouding or invis improves their durability considerably, prescience really helps with their lack of attacks even fortune and doom work well on them, but more crucially what about sanitic powers?

Being stuck in combat with S5 ap3 weapons (hammerhand) isn't so bad plus you become a genuine threat being S8/9 on the charge with lance weaponry. It maybe a little controversial but in my area you can Gate of infinity out of a combat if needed.

You have D blasting or horde nova abilities as well to help out the spears, and of all casters farseers are the safest to cast them... just my opinion there.

The problem stems from it being woefully inefficient in terms of points and effect

You can make far better units for less points to do the same thing in the eldar dex...

I think they're like Banshees in that they get WAY better when they get buffed by the Avatar. Without it your best bet is killing small squads.

As for people saying they have "gakky models" I must disagree. Gakky is a drastic understatement. They are by far the worst model I've ever made.

I'd say they're more or less what Vespids are in the Tau Codex: not a bad unit, but there are others which do their job better.

pm713 wrote:
I think they're like Banshees in that they get WAY better when they get buffed by the Avatar. Without it your best bet is killing small squads.

As for people saying they have "gakky models" I must disagree. Gakky is a drastic understatement. They are by far the worst model I've ever made.

Except Banshee's already have that position permanently reserved, I'd take jetbiking/ skilled riders that can house special characters and have decent damage on the charge over a unit that requires an assault transport in a codex with no assault transports, no furious charge (how do they not have furious charge...it's bonkers!) with special rules that stop working when attached to anyone that isn't Jain Zar...

 Torus wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I think they're like Banshees in that they get WAY better when they get buffed by the Avatar. Without it your best bet is killing small squads.

As for people saying they have "gakky models" I must disagree. Gakky is a drastic understatement. They are by far the worst model I've ever made.

Except Banshee's already have that position permanently reserved, I'd take jetbiking/ skilled riders that can house special characters and have decent damage on the charge over a unit that requires an assault transport in a codex with no assault transports, no furious charge (how do they not have furious charge...it's bonkers!) with special rules that stop working when attached to anyone that isn't Jain Zar...

I meant in terms of assembling the models. In rules we can have a discussion but purely in model terms the Spears are way worse.

Ah, point taken from a modeling perspective I've only converted my Shining Spears, so considering the kit is pretty old and the helmets are terrible I suppose you have a point.

 Torus wrote:

Spoiler:

pm713 wrote:

 Torus wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I think they're like Banshees in that they get WAY better when they get buffed by the Avatar. Without it your best bet is killing small squads.

As for people saying they have "gakky models" I must disagree. Gakky is a drastic understatement. They are by far the worst model I've ever made.

Except Banshee's already have that position permanently reserved, I'd take jetbiking/ skilled riders that can house special characters and have decent damage on the charge over a unit that requires an assault transport in a codex with no assault transports, no furious charge (how do they not have furious charge...it's bonkers!) with special rules that stop working when attached to anyone that isn't Jain Zar...

I meant in terms of assembling the models. In rules we can have a discussion but purely in model terms the Spears are way worse.

Ah, point taken from a modeling perspective I've only converted my Shining Spears, so considering the kit is pretty old and the helmets are terrible I suppose you have a point.

I'm okay with the helmets. It's the lances...

pm713 wrote:
.
I'm okay with the helmets. It's the lances...

Have you tried using the Harlequin Zephyrglaives and Windrider Guardian bodies? They look pretty good...

 Torus wrote:

pm713 wrote:
.
I'm okay with the helmets. It's the lances...

Have you tried using the Harlequin Zephyrglaives and Windrider Guardian bodies? They look pretty good...

I haven't. I might do that next time I make a Spear unit it sounds like a good idea.