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Looking to expand my Blood Angels back to when Sanguinius was alive as my gaming group have just about assembled and painted up (with a few finishing touches required) their BoC box sets, Primarchs and other support units. They are letting me use some 40k models while I wait for my legion units, particulary the box set as Assault Marines (while I wait for a plastic release of MKIV Assault marines).

So with that said, we are starting with small games (relative wise, since the standard 30k game is around 3000 points). This is what I have planned for 1500 points. I'll be using the Day of Revelation Rite of War because it seems fun to play.


Feel like I've splashed a fair bit with the Praetor but umy plan was to DS and possibly destroy a vehicle turn one. Maybe master crafted to ensure the hit? Or the Fleshbane sword instead.
Thoughts on where to go with this? Might be a few too many Melta Bombs but eh, I like flexibility.

It looks pretty interesting, a few things:

1) charnabal sabers might be a bit wasted on the squad, as you will be relying on rends to deal with other heavy hitting squads :(
2) is the photon blade the relic, or one of the special swords they got? If it's the relic, don't rely on it, as it required opponent permission to use, and if it's one of their special swords, how does it compare to the paragon blade/power fist combo?


Beyond that, it looks like a pretty fun, decently fluffy list.

1) What would be better then? The Legion Rules give +1 on the 'Wound' roll and I couldn't find any +1 Strength at Initiative to make use of the +1 Initiative bonus as per legion of rites :/ Would like them to be quite killy without being expensive and they seemed like the best option..

2) Yeah it is a Relic but it looked amazing, AP2, Fleshbane, Soul Blaze, Fear and Blind in one. But I'll certainly look into other options.

They have a Blade of Perdition as a generic weapon for characters, which is Strength User and Two-Handed, but it is AP2 at I5 and causes 2 wounds which need to be saved separately.

I like the idea of the Paragon Blade though looking at it. With the Legion rules, it's almost the same as the Fleshbane (missing out on Primarchs and other high toughness units). Which weapon would be best for him (ranked 1-3 so I know where the Relic weapon stands as well).

 Frozocrone wrote:
1) What would be better then? The Legion Rules give +1 on the 'Wound' roll and I couldn't find any +1 Strength at Initiative to make use of the +1 Initiative bonus as per legion of rites :/ Would like them to be quite killy without being expensive and they seemed like the best option..

2) Yeah it is a Relic but it looked amazing, AP2, Fleshbane, Soul Blaze, Fear and Blind in one. But I'll certainly look into other options.

They have a Blade of Perdition as a generic weapon for characters, which is Strength User and Two-Handed, but it is AP2 at I5 and causes 2 wounds which need to be saved separately.

I like the idea of the Paragon Blade though looking at it. With the Legion rules, it's almost the same as the Fleshbane (missing out on Primarchs and other high toughness units). Which weapon would be best for him (ranked 1-3 so I know where the Relic weapon stands as well).

1) I forgot about the +1 to woudn thing, that makes it a bit better, but the lack of a base AP is dissapointing. So long as you don't bump into EC, you'll always go first, which is nice

2) The relic is super strong, but expensive and not always available to take.

swords (for praetor):
1) Relic, when you can take it
2) Paragon blade (if you give it to him, as well as a power fist, you get +1 attack AND a more reliable AT/Anti-MC shot)
3) Blade of Perdition (it's basically a discount paragon blade for centurions to take )

 Brennonjw wrote:


1) charnabal sabers might be a bit wasted on the squad, as you will be relying on rends to deal with other heavy hitting squads :(
2) is the photon blade the relic, or one of the special swords they got? If it's the relic, don't rely on it, as it required opponent permission to use, and if it's one of their special swords, how does it compare to the paragon blade/power fist combo?

Nope, me and my friends founf out it is only the Age of Darkness Relics that require permission to use, the legion specific ones are A-OK.

The Legion Specific relics ARE Age of Darkness Relics. Heck, they all came out in the same book.

Right OK, I'll build the list without the Relic just in case my group says no.

This is what have now:

Legion Praetor w/ Paragon Blade, Power Fist, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers
Bodyguard - 5x Command squad w/ Jump Packs, 4x Power Weapons, 1x Power Fist.
= 475

15x Assault Marines w/ Sergeant, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs = 350
15x Assault Marines w/ Sergeant, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs = 350

Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon = 70
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon = 70
3x Outrider squad w/ TL Plasma Gun, Outrider Sergeant, Meltabombs = 185

I think for the command squad I'm going to go with my loadout for my 40k Sanguinary guard, 1 Power Fist, 1 Power Axe 3 Power Swords. I've still got the Praetor for I6 AP2 attacks and the Power Axe combined with the blood angels legion astartes rule wounds on 2+. Saves me 5 points (but didn't want to do too many unwieldy weapons, despite the Praetor having 7 attacks on the charge - another reason why I dropped master crafted).

Went for an outrider sergeant with melta bombs for additional leadership for a the small unit (that might flee too far off the table) and melta bombs for in the case of getting too close (also ran out of points).

If I were you, I'd ditch the command squad and with the leftover points max out your assault squads and give them five power weapons each, and if you still have leftover points, maybe combat shields to one squad.
You'll be getting five more boots on the ground for less points, and power axes are absurdly good in the hands of blood angels, since they wound MEQs on a 2+

Think about it, 5 command squad marines with jump packs are 215 points. 20 assault marines are 400. That means they're over twice as expensive as assault marines, just for one point better armor, one more attack, and one more WS. That's not better than just using two marines unless you're fighting some crazy all power sword / krak missile army.

I use a 20 man assault squad with shields and 5 power weapons in all my games, and it really catches opponents off guard. It's an absolutely brutal squad that can even mulch units like gal vorbak and reavers in hth (just make sure you protect it from artillery! hopefully your turn 1 deep striking speeders can rip up the back or side armor of one or two tanks).


Also, something else to consider, for your outriders, unless you already have them built. Depending on what you want to use them for, twin-plasmas might not be the best option. That leaves you with a very expensive squad that is pretty frail for its point cost. It's decent at MEQ and TEQ hunting, and with outflank, nailing tanks in their side or back armor, but as a blood angel player you have access to inferno pistols. For the same cost as those 3 bikes with the plasma, you could deploy 5 with two inferno pistols. Again, more boots (wheels?) on the ground, and arguably better at tank hunting.

 Walnuts wrote:
Think about it, 5 command squad marines with jump packs are 215 points. 20 assault marines are 400. That means they're over twice as expensive as assault marines, just for one point better armor, one more attack, and one more WS. That's not better than just using two marines unless you're fighting some crazy all power sword / krak missile army.

you forgot about the bubble of fearless, and the fact that they can eat challenges for your praetor so he can continue to murder. While it's not as effective as 20 assault marines, they are hardly a bad deal.

Another option would be to change one assault squad into 2x10 Tactical Bolter guys with Rhinos (for objectives and possibly shielding assault marines) and a Chaplain for Fearless/Hatred. Thoughts?

I have to be careful on vehicles though, since I can't have more vehicles than infantry with my Rites.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
Think about it, 5 command squad marines with jump packs are 215 points. 20 assault marines are 400. That means they're over twice as expensive as assault marines, just for one point better armor, one more attack, and one more WS. That's not better than just using two marines unless you're fighting some crazy all power sword / krak missile army.

you forgot about the bubble of fearless, and the fact that they can eat challenges for your praetor so he can continue to murder. While it's not as effective as 20 assault marines, they are hardly a bad deal.

I'd honestly rather have my praetor accept the challenges, and be more likely to win them. 5 marines swinging axes that'll generate 16 attacks on the charge, 11 otherwise, wound on 2+ against T4, and have AP2 is plenty of murder. Also when the bulk of your force is a 21-22 man squad that already has Ld10 and is pretty likely to win most hth engagements, generating a fearless bubble isn't much of an issue.

Personal choice. I see your point, but could really only ever see myself fielding a command squad if I REALLY had some cool models I wanted to use, or somehow my meta had an absurd amount of ap3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Another option would be to change one assault squad into 2x10 Tactical Bolter guys with Rhinos (for objectives and possibly shielding assault marines) and a Chaplain for Fearless/Hatred. Thoughts?

I have to be careful on vehicles though, since I can't have more vehicles than infantry with my Rites.

A couple of things to be careful with there, if you lose your second assault squad then you can't use the Day of Revelations rite (which is pretty potent, especially with all the speeders you have).

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of small squads in rhinos just yet. I want to gradually add some to my force and see how they do. If you're looking for something to screen your assault marines, recon marines in a rhino aren't a terrible thing to consider. A 10 man tactical squad with no upgrades in a rhino with an assault cannon is 205 points. 10 recon marines with no upgrades in the same rhino is 255. For the extra 50 points you get scout, which on the rhino means a full foot of free movement, the option to take shotguns, which ain't great but it looks cool and is kinda better in a few circumstances, and shroud bombs, which, considering you'll be deploying out of a rhino, can help you not get counter-charged.

Also, a few things, that more infantry than vehicles thing isn't due to a right of war, it's due to your army. Play blood angels and you'll never get around that one. Also it doesn't apply to dedicated transports, so use as many rhinos as you want. Also a model that's worth at least owning if you're going to dedicate yourself to 30k blood angels is an attack bike (prob with assault cannon). It's a 45 pt model that can unlock you an extra vehicle slot if you ever need it.

As for the Chaplain, squad buffs are better in 30k than they are in 40k, since squad sizes are so much bigger, and leadership buffs are so much more important because you can get stomped out if you lose a sweeping advance roll, but personally, I've done so well on the charge and have had such a minimal issue with failing leadership tests, that buffing either isn't appealing to me.
I've done much better with my Primus Medicae and Libararian. Giving 21+ marines FNP is HUGE, and the Librarian, if you make him a biomancer he can give your 21+ marine squad 4+++ FNP and eternal warrior, give a 20+ man enemy squad -1S and -1T, now all of a sudden those marines you're fighting are wounding you on 5+ while you wound them on 2+, or just hulk up like a primarch with iron arm. You get two rolls on the chart and three of the powers are AMAZING. It's a touch risky, but when it pays off, ohhhh man.

GOOD LUCK!

Would a cloaking array be viable on the Praetor?

Go second, Deep Strike on turn one, maybe get some shots off and then on my opponents turn 2 make the unit invisible?

Or too expensive at this points level?

EDIT: Can't even charge, big nope to that xD

Hah, yeah, no deep strike charging in 30k, you're playing a balanced game now

Also is a cloaking array one of those age of darkness relics? "cause the same problem arises with the photonic blade. It's not always going to be legal, so you probably shouldn't rely on it much.
However, as someone else in this thread pointed out, a paragon blade and a power fist cost about as much as a photonic blade does. In the hands of a blood angel a paragon blade wounds MEQs on 2+ anyway, it can be master crafted (whereas the photonic blade cannot), and against the T7 robot monsters that the photonic blade would normally wreck for you, you'll have your power fist. Comparing the two loadouts, you save 5 points, get that instant death rule, you're better against MEQs, you can hurt vehicles without needing to pay for metla bombs, but worse against high T opponents like primarchs and monstrous creatures, and you lose your pistol, fear, and soul blaze. I've never had fear do anything for me, and soulblaze is kind of minor and a little annoying to keep track of. Even though most of the people in my group are cool with relics for casual games, I still don't bother with the photonic blade much (I have a praetor model with a jump pack, a sword, and a magnetized other hand so I can swap out his gear freely, there's a picture of him in my gallery).

Oh I meant that the Cloak would make me invisible on their turn 2 so I couldn't be shot at (well with everything at least).

But then I realised, nevermind it's a Relic, that you couldn't charge or do anything the turn you use it, so..why? Lol

In addition, they ahve pinning the turn they come in so it's sort of the same thing. I brainfarted so bad..

I'm liking the Paragon Fist combo more and more, especially when I roll some dice.

Would a large unit of assault marines and two smaller squads work well for troops? Say, 20 and 2x10 (or 2x15). Would probably go Medicae as a Consul on the large unit (led by the Praetor) and the smaller units would go around getting objectives, maybe killing.

I realize min-maxing isn't as good in 30k due to tax on units but I'm a little concerned on scoring ability (what with there being no Blood Angels unique units that can be made troops).

 Frozocrone wrote:
Oh I meant that the Cloak would make me invisible on their turn 2 so I couldn't be shot at (well with everything at least).

But then I realised, nevermind it's a Relic, that you couldn't charge or do anything the turn you use it, so..why? Lol

In addition, they ahve pinning the turn they come in so it's sort of the same thing. I brainfarted so bad..

I'm liking the Paragon Fist combo more and more, especially when I roll some dice.

Would a large unit of assault marines and two smaller squads work well for troops? Say, 20 and 2x10 (or 2x15). Would probably go Medicae as a Consul on the large unit (led by the Praetor) and the smaller units would go around getting objectives, maybe killing.

I realize min-maxing isn't as good in 30k due to tax on units but I'm a little concerned on scoring ability (what with there being no Blood Angels unique units that can be made troops).

Everyone else has the same issue on scoring unique units. Very few units in 30k are scoring. Your best bets are on your Troops, your Termies, and Veteran Tacticals. Rites of War could give you some more options, but mostly, there are far less scoring units in 30k.
Target priority ftw.

Quick question how would a Kheres Assault Dreadnought work ingame?

Or a Blood Angels one with Chain Fists and underslung assault cannons (if it's ruled to be OK, because that just seems...weird lol)?

Would have to be without a Drop Pod though

 Frozocrone wrote:
Quick question how would a Kheres Assault Dreadnought work ingame?

Or a Blood Angels one with Chain Fists and underslung assault cannons (if it's ruled to be OK, because that just seems...weird lol)?

Would have to be without a Drop Pod though

they compare as follows:
Kheres: 6 shots, 4 attacks on the charge, slightly cheaper
dual fist w/ AC: 8 shots, 5 attacks on the charge, slightly more expensive (dual chainfist would also be kinda wastefull (though would look cool) go chain + regular fist)

the few extra points are generally worth it.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Quick question how would a Kheres Assault Dreadnought work ingame?

Or a Blood Angels one with Chain Fists and underslung assault cannons (if it's ruled to be OK, because that just seems...weird lol)?

Would have to be without a Drop Pod though

The actual model doesn't end up as crazy looking as people make it seem. If you use terminator sized assault cannons, they perfectly fit into the gun hole that contemptors have in the middle of their fists. Here's the one I built: