Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been looking at what units Chaos has, especially in comparison to the Imperium and wondered how Chaos could be expanded as a Faction without ending up with one/two bloated codexes.

These are just ideas for the structure of the armies so please keep that in mind, also with AOS now on round bases some models could be ported over.

Chaos Daemon - stays pretty much as it is but with a few changes. Nurgle gains a warmachine (puss catapult?) and add Blue and Brimstone horrors for Tzeentch. Only Basic level Greater daemons & add a Slaughter brutes/Mutaliths type as Lords of war pack.

Chaos Spacemarines - Changed to Traitors & Renagades. It would cover Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Nightlords, Word Bearers and Renegades (eg Red Corsairs etc) (Iron Warriors are below)
Add suitable legion traits and a chaos appropriate ATSKNF type rule.
Take out all Cult troops/cult special characters (eg Kharn) and Daemon Engines (keep Helbrutes) - This includes no Obliterators or Mutilators.
Add Felblade as a Lord of war (Should also be given to Loyalists)

Keep the options for Marks

Add options for a new flyer (either transport or interceptor if not both) Razorbacks and Neophytes (as they still have the ability to make new marines) a Heavy Dreadnought (chaos Ironclad) and possibly a chaos fast vehicle.

This list Should be somewhere between the Loyalist book and the cult armies.

Dark Mechanicus - (includes Iron Warriors)
Chaos Lords/Warp Smiths, Terminators, Warriors, Bikes & Havocs
All current Daemon engines + Helbrutes
Obliterators and Mutilators.
Traitor Guard Platoons & Artillery/AA guns
No Marks of chaos
Rules for using Imperial Knights for Chaos (not the actual knights rules so that they can always have the updated version whenever the Loyalists get updated)

Daemonkin
Each has Chaos lords/Terminators/Warriors/possessed 3 Grades of Greater Daemon/Princes/Heralds/All of that powers daemons
Khorne & Nurgle have bikers (add an elite option)
Tzeentch & Slaanesh have raptors/warp talons
more specific cultists eg plague zombies/blood reavers etc
Each has a daemon engine unit - eg Blight Drones, Blood Slaughter
Heldrakes - weapons adjusted to each power, eg Nurgle Flamer becomes poison
Finally each has a LOW - eg Plague tower, Hell-knights (old slaanesh Epic unit)

This isn't a definitive list of units but I think the split would work. What do you think? If you don't agree/like it can you say way (be constructive please)

Why are bikers and normal marines in a different book? Everything (except daemons) can be kept in the same book. Renegades and heretics get their own book, but there is no reason to split up such vital units. More books won't help people, and why is there no dark mechanicus in the "dark mechanicus" book? Doesn't make much sense.

Like I said this is a basic outline. Starting with a core set of units which could then be expanded on.

In regards to Dark Mechanicus, excluding the defiler which fluff says was from the Black Legion, all daemon engines are Dark Mechanicus and the Iron Warriors have the closes link to them.

I've also used current units as examples not a be all list

Units such as the basic warriors where included across the books because that's what they are, the basic CSM unit but they could be adjusted to fit eg Khorne being assault based, Nurgle being Heavy infantry fire power etc. i also haven't Split units like warriors and bikes up, they are both still where they are. what I have done is suggest that Daemonkin type books don't get all the toys eg Nurgle only gets bikers, not raptors.

Also by breaking out the books into more factions allows room for them all to grow rather then trying to make a catch all codex or a single book that makes the current Loyalist book look anorexic.

My dream would be to make the rules free. The fluff could be separate codexes as GW sees fit, similar to how you divided it possibly.

Chaos needs a whole hell of a lot of work to bring it back to being a fluffy and competitive army.

My two cents are as follows:

Split up the Chaos Faction into 4 separate Codexes. All of them are battle brothers.

Codex: Traitoris Extremis
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion and Night Lords.

Codex: Traitoris Daemonica
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons.

Codex: Renegades and Heretics
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the renegade Chaos warbands like the Crimson Slaughter, Red Corsairs, The Purged, The Flawless Host etc. It would also contain Renegade Imperial Knights, Dark Mechanicum and Astra Militarum.

Codex: Libre Daemonica
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Daemons of Chaos.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Chaos needs a whole hell of a lot of work to bring it back to being a fluffy and competitive army.

My two cents are as follows:

Split up the Chaos Faction into 4 separate Codexes. All of them are battle brothers.

Codex: Traitoris Extremis
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion and Night Lords.

Codex: Traitoris Daemonica
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons.

Codex: Renegades and Heretics
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the renegade Chaos warbands like the Crimson Slaughter, Red Corsairs, The Purged, The Flawless Host etc. It would also contain Renegade Imperial Knights, Dark Mechanicum and Astra Militarum.

Codex: Libre Daemonica
This codex contain rules, wargear, artifacts, formations and fluff for the Daemons of Chaos.

Looks simple, neat and fluffy.

Codex Chaos Undivided. All Chaos. All of the time.

Forces should never be split into more than one book. Give people all the options in a single place.

Renegades, Legions, Traitor Guard, Daemons; all in one codex.

I Codex Chaos Undivided. All Chaos. All of the time.

Forces should never be split into more than one book. Give people all the options in a single place.

Renegades, Legions, Traitor Guard, Daemons; all in one codex.

I agree with this to a certain extent. My only issue is that a book that large would to me, seem unnecessarily cumbersome. Thats why I'm pro splitting the elements up and possibly releasing them as an omnibus that is split into it's integral parts. Sort of like how they split the 7th edition rulebook up.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I Codex Chaos Undivided. All Chaos. All of the time.

Forces should never be split into more than one book. Give people all the options in a single place.

Renegades, Legions, Traitor Guard, Daemons; all in one codex.

I agree with this to a certain extent. My only issue is that a book that large would to me, seem unnecessarily cumbersome. Thats why I'm pro splitting the elements up and possibly releasing them as an omnibus that is split into it's integral parts. Sort of like how they split the 7th edition rulebook up.

Split rules from fluff; problem sorted!

Sure, that's also a possibility.

What about the people who only want to play a specific element of Chaos and avoid others. This way they only have to buy a single book that is cheaper than a large one that will inevitably be more expensive.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Sure, that's also a possibility.

What about the people who only want to play a specific element of Chaos and avoid others. This way they only have to buy a single book that is cheaper than a large one that will inevitably be more expensive.

What about the people who want to have access to a reasonable selection of options rather than a whole load of massively limited "codexes" which still cost an unreasonable amount and an absolute fortune if you want to use parts of each of them even though they are all part of the same damn faction?

Who said they would be limited? Whether you buy them in chunks or as one large whole, they are still going to cost a lot.

If GW ever released something this amazing I wouldn't really care if it was one book or 10. I'd just be happy they did it. I just have a preference for splitting up what I perceive to be 4 very different sub factions in a large army.

It should all be in one book. Chaos should have NEVER been broken up like this. For people who just wanna play mono-gods, the Books of Chaos did it far better than Daemonkin or any of the "dedicated" codexes ever could (giving you boons in exchange for restrictions, rather than shoehorning each unit into a specific role and making units of questionable use just so Mono-god armies aren't totally useless in a single aspect).

rather than shoehorning each unit into a specific role and making units of questionable use just so Mono-god armies aren't totally useless in a single aspect

Agree, they shouldn't be shoehorned into a roll. But they should have strengths and weaknesses if taken as a mono-god army.

Thats why I think having an entire book dedicated to the Cult Legions would allow mono-god armies to be fielded competitively and fluffily. It focuses on the Cult Legions and allows them to reach their full potential as a well rounded army that specializes in specific areas, rather than the single niche they fill in the current codex.

The problem is Chaos Undivided Armies is also a thing, and you can never truly do one or the other with separate codexes; otherwise we'll get the same issue Blood Angels have.

The best codex that balanced between "mixed" and "pure" armies in recent memory was the 5th edition Dark Eldar Codex; you could reliably run a pure Haemonculus Coven Army, a Kabalite Army or a Wych Cult Army, but you could also pick and match from each of them if you'd like.

I would be eager to see renegade IG and dark mechanicum. Then we would need legion rules.