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Why not just throw out Mob Rule? I mean, why the feth is it there anyway? Seriously... is there any other serious no holds barred bent over butt pounding that any other troop choice has? Hmmm for 81 pts I can have:

A unit of 9 Boyz, 1 Rokit Boy, and 1 Nob.
or
A unit of 22 Grots, and 2 Runtherds
or
A unit of 3 Eldar Scatter Bikes
or
A unit of 9 Tau Fire Warriors
or
A unit of 6 Necron Warriors (78 actually)
or
A unit of 5 Necron Immortals (85 actually)
or
A unit of 3 Scouts 1 Sgt and 1 Missile Launcher Scout
or
A unit of 3 Marines 1 Sgt and 1 Hvy Bolter Marine

None of these have nerfs that make them fething kill each other. WTF. would it make boyz OP just to say, "No more mob rule."

 doktor_g wrote:
Why not just throw out Mob Rule? I mean, why the feth is it there anyway? Seriously... is there any other serious no holds barred bent over butt pounding that any other troop choice has? Hmmm for 81 pts I can have:

A unit of 9 Boyz, 1 Rokit Boy, and 1 Nob.
or
A unit of 22 Grots, and 2 Runtherds
or
A unit of 3 Eldar Scatter Bikes
or
A unit of 9 Tau Fire Warriors
or
A unit of 6 Necron Warriors (78 actually)
or
A unit of 5 Necron Immortals (85 actually)
or
A unit of 3 Scouts 1 Sgt and 1 Missile Launcher Scout
or
A unit of 3 Marines 1 Sgt and 1 Hvy Bolter Marine

None of these have nerfs that make them fething kill each other. WTF. would it make boyz OP just to say, "No more mob rule."

Your not forging the narrative hard enough. You have to remember to let the SMs and Eldar win heroically against insurmountable odds, for every Space Elf or Marine that dies, dozens of Boyz are enemy boyz are slaughtered.

If the Space Elves or Marines lose to Orks then the world will explode, that is a scientific fact, so to ensure that never happens GW has made the Ork faction one of the absolute weakest.

It's one of GW's fluff rules like Ancient Doom. Personally I think the IDEA is good but GW implemented it terribly.

I don't see how mob rule is a strait nerf. You have morale shenanigans to go with it. Would you rather you just have plain Ld7 without the mob rule

 CrownAxe wrote:
I don't see how mob rule is a strait nerf. You have morale shenanigans to go with it. Would you rather you just have plain Ld7 without the mob rule

Yeah, you gets what you pays for. Mob rule is like made in china fearless. It is objectively better than just plain Ld7 but is someways short of true fearless but then if da boyz were fearless box standard without nobs, bosspoles, large numbers or funky formations loaded with restrictions and requirements then they would have to be quite a bit more expensive than base 6ppm. What is often forgotten, it seems, is that while the mob rule can give you some lumps it is giving your boyz a chance of not failing a test and what kind of lumps would you get if they straight out failed? How many boyz of your 30 strong mob would you lose if you were swept in combat? Spend a bit more than 6ppm by buying characters, bosspoles and eavy armour and mob rule becomes better for you. Orks players can effectively choose how reliable they want their troops to be, which is a boon in itself.

Mob Rule is a mixed bag but the issue is it is a bandaid for an army that has tissue paper defense, The process of having your blob of boyz gunned down by shooting then to fail leadership 7 and then having them beat themselves up some more. Its particularly painful with vehicle explosions where you lose roughly half the squad to the explosion then have 2 leadership tests to make which can result in up to 2d6 hits to the already crippled unit. It FEELS like your own rule kick you while your down because your units are designed to die by the bucket load.

For blobs of boyz it sorta makes sense (but boyz have a whole mess of their own issues) but it gets really bad for the more "specialist" orks like Tankbustas, Burnas, Nobz, etc where they don't have the body count to fully utilize mob rule and each lose is double the points hit that a boy would cost. Especially for something like Nobz who despite being THE elite ork who is bigger, meaner, and greener (and thus even more orky ) is just as cowardly and prone to leadership problems as a lowly slugga boy.

Hormagaunts have it just as bad as ork boys, if not worse.
Drop out of synapse, fail a Ld6 test, roll 1-3, and watch as half the unit dies (every model in the unit inflicts an automatic hit against the unit. T-shirt saves allowed), and the survivors have to stand around doing nothing for the rest of the turn.

Arson Fire wrote:
Hormagaunts have it just as bad as ork boys, if not worse.
Drop out of synapse, fail a Ld6 test, roll 1-3, and watch as half the unit dies (every model in the unit inflicts an automatic hit against the unit. T-shirt saves allowed), and the survivors have to stand around doing nothing for the rest of the turn.

They have it better really. Any worthwhile Nid list has the Synapse to cover them.

I don't know why so many ork players hate on mob rule. Personally, is freaking awesome. Can't tell you how many times I need to roll a 1 on the mob table to stay in combat and get it and just ruin my opponent's day. So much for you trying to sweep me, you are now dead.

 SolarCross wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
I don't see how mob rule is a strait nerf. You have morale shenanigans to go with it. Would you rather you just have plain Ld7 without the mob rule

Yeah, you gets what you pays for. Mob rule is like made in china fearless. It is objectively better than just plain Ld7 but is someways short of true fearless but then if da boyz were fearless box standard without nobs, bosspoles, large numbers or funky formations loaded with restrictions and requirements then they would have to be quite a bit more expensive than base 6ppm. What is often forgotten, it seems, is that while the mob rule can give you some lumps it is giving your boyz a chance of not failing a test and what kind of lumps would you get if they straight out failed? How many boyz of your 30 strong mob would you lose if you were swept in combat? Spend a bit more than 6ppm by buying characters, bosspoles and eavy armour and mob rule becomes better for you. Orks players can effectively choose how reliable they want their troops to be, which is a boon in itself.

Except for the fact that you are wrong. For big blobs of boyz the new Mob rule is a HUGE nerf. 10+ models = fearless, now it is if you have 10+ models, a character you have a 1/6 chance of failing, not bad but here is the kicker, 2-6 means you lose D6 boyz. Now you say if we give them eavy armor and a nob/bp we can make them as tough and durable as we want and get our money's worth out of that mob rule....except that eavy armor is 66% of the cost of the boy, your paying 4pts for each 6pt model to give them a 4+ save. Give them that Nob with the BP (which everyone already does) and your quickly adding a lot of points onto a mediocre unit To give you a run down, 29 boyz with a Nob BP/PK costs 229 pts I believe. If you give them Eavy Armor your unit just went up to 349pts for a single blob of Eavy Armor boyz that can benefit from Mob Rule and not be ruined by it. So in a 1,500 points game you have to spend 1,047pts on your troop choices just to make the "Decent" not good mind you, just decent.

So your boon to make boyz durable is really a huge nerf and the only units who remotely benefit from it are the little squads of specialists.....but here is the best part, previously Ork small units benefited from the BP of the nob to give them a rerollable 7+ Leadership test, not bad but not good, especially in CC when you lose combat. But the new Mob Rule on specialists makes them run away on a 1, 4, 5 and 6. So you went from a 7+ rerollable leadership test to a 7+ leadership test followed by a 1/3rd chance to pass. So actually that is a NERF in most leadership tests but a slight buff in Close combat where you benefit from the roll of a 1 so you have a 50/50.

SemperMortis wrote:

Except for the fact that you are wrong. For big blobs of boyz the new Mob rule is a HUGE nerf. 10+ models = fearless, now it is if you have 10+ models, a character you have a 1/6 chance of failing, not bad but here is the kicker, 2-6 means you lose D6 boyz. Now you say if we give them eavy armor and a nob/bp we can make them as tough and durable as we want and get our money's worth out of that mob rule....except that eavy armor is 66% of the cost of the boy, your paying 4pts for each 6pt model to give them a 4+ save. Give them that Nob with the BP (which everyone already does) and your quickly adding a lot of points onto a mediocre unit To give you a run down, 29 boyz with a Nob BP/PK costs 229 pts I believe. If you give them Eavy Armor your unit just went up to 349pts for a single blob of Eavy Armor boyz that can benefit from Mob Rule and not be ruined by it. So in a 1,500 points game you have to spend 1,047pts on your troop choices just to make the "Decent" not good mind you, just decent.

So your boon to make boyz durable is really a huge nerf and the only units who remotely benefit from it are the little squads of specialists.....but here is the best part, previously Ork small units benefited from the BP of the nob to give them a rerollable 7+ Leadership test, not bad but not good, especially in CC when you lose combat. But the new Mob Rule on specialists makes them run away on a 1, 4, 5 and 6. So you went from a 7+ rerollable leadership test to a 7+ leadership test followed by a 1/3rd chance to pass. So actually that is a NERF in most leadership tests but a slight buff in Close combat where you benefit from the roll of a 1 so you have a 50/50.

Well the old rule was better and I think that is why so many hate the new rule because no one likes a nerf but for the points cost the old rule may have been too strong and it is less interesting. Breaking heads + squabble results deliver d6 hits at S4 AP- so on average that is 1.45 dead boyz with a T-shirt save or 0.875 with eavy armour. A painboy can bring it down some more.

Guard have a similar solution to morale issues on big blobs: pay for a commissar and use "summary execution" to pass your test at the cost of shooting one of your own blokes in the head and there is a 1 in 3 chance that your opponent chooses which model gets blammed which means your commissar doesn't waste some expendable flashlight wielder but a sergeant, specialist weapon or even a valuable character like a priest or psyker...

I don't think it is high price to pay for a very good chance of keeping a big mob in the fight.

Well nobody likes nerfs on one of the weakest factions in the game. Orks were already pathetically under powered before the new codex and instead of buffing the orks up to the power level of hte other factions they nerfed us ever LOWER then we were.

Here is the problem though. IG (Another WEAK codex) can auto pass a morale test by killing 1 guy, who is cheaper then orks. That has a 1 in 3 chance to kill a useful model in that blob (if you have one) the orks have a 5/6 chance to kill D6 boyz which with an average dice roll of 4 (its 3.5 but whatever) is 2 wounds and usually 2 dead orks as you pointed out. That is 12 points lost just to pass a morale test. Giving that blob Eavy Armor doesn't help because you just made them 66% more expensive while only giving them a better armor save.

So with that in mind it is actually a rather expensive way to keep the mob in the fight. 12 points lost every time you take a morale test.....and god help you if you roll badly you can lose 6 models.

Apparently ork boyz was deemed to powerful last edition.
So GW took away fearless and have them Mob rules which is the worst replacement ever.

Then they thought shoota boyz were to cheap because that's all people took so they increase its cost by 1

Then they said trukks did those boys were to good so they took away ramshackle and gave us something worse

Finally they thought cybork bodies made Orks to strong so they took away our only 6+ invul and gave non stacking fnp

Finally they said kff cover save to all friendly units was too good so they turned it into a 5+ invul but only out to 6in and even works for your opponents too.

Ork boys were obviously the most powerful troop choice last edition because why else would they nerf them 5x over and increase thier costs so that we are one of the few codexs where unit costs actually went up not down.

I honestly don't think the issue is with Mob rule. I'd say it's with the cost in Eavy Armor. Mob rule works as a poor mans fearless quite well, and is definitely fluffy. However, compare the two below cases and statlines from the attached picture. Just basic loadout for IG veterans and Ork boys. Both 10 man squads.

Their per model cost is exactly the same, and arguably, so is their combat effectiveness (given vets shoot better, but orks hit better)

so, why then does it cost only 15pts for the guard to get a 4+ save, and 40pts for the boys?

Just reduce Eavy armour to 2 - 3 pts per model and they are already considerably more viable, especially with Mob rule.

Mob rule and Instinctual behavior needs to go the way of "It's dark in dere" & Stupidity for Ogryns and the Awe rule Wraithlords used to endure.

Boyz without mob rule are waaaay worse than boyz with mob rule. ld7 sucks and mob rule gives good chances.

Try to remember a thing that brought manz from bad to decent. New mob rule and a bosspole character. As for hordes...well, it's been pretty clear since 6-th came along that hordes suck (unless you have access to a bunch of wizards) and has nothing to do with mob rule. The only thing that's wrong with it is random wound allocation.

The good thing about mob rule is that you can choose to a great extent exactly how fearless you want a particular unit to be.

Shooty mobs? Failing a morale test isn't such a big deal so make em small and leave out characters (where possible) and they will fall back or go to ground without taking any hits from mob rule and that is okay. Being reduced to snapshots on a BS2 model actually isn't such a big deal.

Close combat mobs? Failing a morale test is really bad! Keep 'em big and give 'em characters and although they will take some hits they will be practically fearless.

Footslogging close combat mobs? Even failing morale test outside of combat is bad because you are falling back away from those you want to krump, meaning it will take even longer to get where they need to be even assuming you eventually regroup and so will have to endure even more shooting. As for close combat mods x 2.

Expensive but fragile shooty mobs? (lootas, flash gitz) As for Shooty mobs x 2.

Tough but necessarily small close combat units? (MANZ, Nobz) Characters & Bosspoles as much as possible + any other sources of fearless (USRs, Relics, vehicles).

 SolarCross wrote:
The good thing about mob rule is that you can choose to a great extent exactly how fearless you want a particular unit to be.

Shooty mobs? Failing a morale test isn't such a big deal so make em small and leave out characters (where possible) and they will fall back or go to ground without taking any hits from mob rule and that is okay. Being reduced to snapshots on a BS2 model actually isn't such a big deal.

Close combat mobs? Failing a morale test is really bad! Keep 'em big and give 'em characters and although they will take some hits they will be practically fearless.

Footslogging close combat mobs? Even failing morale test outside of combat is bad because you are falling back away from those you want to krump, meaning it will take even longer to get where they need to be even assuming you eventually regroup and so will have to endure even more shooting. As for close combat mods x 2.

Expensive but fragile shooty mobs? (lootas, flash gitz) As for Shooty mobs x 2.

Tough but necessarily small close combat units? (MANZ, Nobz) Characters & Bosspoles as much as possible + any other sources of fearless (USRs, Relics, vehicles).

Tank Bustas, Flash Gitz, Burnas, Lootas, Kommandos and Stormboyz are all elite boyz units. All of them are 6+ armor with no ability to upgrade for any of them (including the gitz who are nobz). When you get hit in your open topped transport (Only feasible way to keep them on the table for more then 1 turn) you lose about 1/2 the unit when the transport explodes and then another D6 from Mob Rule. What you are left with is a decapitated squad that is an easy victory point for the enemy and is no longer even combat effective.

As a player of one of the following: CSM, Tyranids, Orks (or all three like my dumb ass) You have to accept that you are to play the role of NPC fall guy.

 Eldarain wrote:
As a player of one of the following: CSM, Tyranids, Orks (or all three like my dumb ass) You have to accept that you are to play the role of NPC fall guy.

Yeah I refuse to play as the NPC player to get kicked around. I have spent a lot of time and money on my army and I won't accept that.

SemperMortis wrote:

Tank Bustas, Flash Gitz, Burnas, Lootas, Kommandos and Stormboyz are all elite boyz units. All of them are 6+ armor with no ability to upgrade for any of them (including the gitz who are nobz). When you get hit in your open topped transport (Only feasible way to keep them on the table for more then 1 turn) you lose about 1/2 the unit when the transport explodes and then another D6 from Mob Rule. What you are left with is a decapitated squad that is an easy victory point for the enemy and is no longer even combat effective.

What you don't seem to be getting is that you can avoid taking hits from the mob rule table by keeping the squad under 10 and leaving out characters. Then they will never take hits from mob rule though they will only get a 1 in 6 chance of passing the morale test they failed and then only if in combat (which is when you most want to pass the test anyway). Taking Kommandos for an example, they can be kitted out for shooting or cc by either taking rokkit launchas or taking burnas. If you take rokkit launchas then you are keeping them out of cc for the most part so you will be more comfortable with them failing a morale test. Best load out for rokkit kommandos then is min squad with no nob and two rokkits. On the other hand if you are aiming for combat then you will take burnas. You can still keep the numbers under ten and leave out characters but if you really want them to get stuck in with "made in china" fearless then you can max out the numbers and put in a nob with bosspole. Now you have a squad that you know will hold its ground in cc but at the expense of becoming more vulnerable to shooting.

I think part of the problem here is not so much the implementation of mob rule but that so many players don't get it and don't know how to make it work for them. In particular Nobs with bp are not an auto-include, they are a choice with pros and cons which works better for some purposes (cc mostly) and worse for other purposes (shooting).

 CrownAxe wrote:
I don't see how mob rule is a strait nerf. You have morale shenanigans to go with it. Would you rather you just have plain Ld7 without the mob rule

Yeah, this. mob rule is bad. Unmodified LD7 is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR worse.

What you don't seem to be getting is that you can avoid taking hits from the mob rule table by keeping the squad under 10 and leaving out characters. Then they will never take hits from mob rule though they will only get a 1 in 6 chance of passing the morale test they failed and then only if in combat (which is when you most want to pass the test anyway). Taking Kommandos for an example, they can be kitted out for shooting or cc by either taking rokkit launchas or taking burnas. If you take rokkit launchas then you are keeping them out of cc for the most part so you will be more comfortable with them failing a morale test. Best load out for rokkit kommandos then is min squad with no nob and two rokkits. On the other hand if you are aiming for combat then you will take burnas. You can still keep the numbers under ten and leave out characters but if you really want them to get stuck in with "made in china" fearless then you can max out the numbers and put in a nob with bosspole. Now you have a squad that you know will hold its ground in cc but at the expense of becoming more vulnerable to shooting.

I think part of the problem here is not so much the implementation of mob rule but that so many players don't get it and don't know how to make it work for them. In particular Nobs with bp are not an auto-include, they are a choice with pros and cons which works better for some purposes (cc mostly) and worse for other purposes (shooting)

No, I think the problem here is that you don't understand the Ork faction. If I am going to be taking a Flash Gitz squad or a loota Squad or a burna squad or a kommando squad, I am paying premium points for a unit that is for all intents and purposes a boyz squad with special weapons. With LD7 those units are ALWAYS failing morale tests. LD7 = 50% pass/fail rate. So what you are effectively paying for is an expensive unit that can't take casualties because since we have to keep the units small for multiple reasons they can only afford to take 2-3 casualties before having a 1/2 chance to run away. If you include a nob to give them a bit better chance to stick around and be USABLE! you are paying for a nob/mek, you are paying for a boss pole possibly and worse, your paying for the ability to kill D6 more of your expensive Boyz models.

In other words, Orks suck as a faction because GW doesn't know how to build functioning rules for the faction and they nerfed them into the fething ground with the 7th edition and the 7th edition codex.

SemperMortis wrote:

No, I think the problem here is that you don't understand the Ork faction. If I am going to be taking a Flash Gitz squad or a loota Squad or a burna squad or a kommando squad, I am paying premium points for a unit that is for all intents and purposes a boyz squad with special weapons. With LD7 those units are ALWAYS failing morale tests. LD7 = 50% pass/fail rate. So what you are effectively paying for is an expensive unit that can't take casualties because since we have to keep the units small for multiple reasons they can only afford to take 2-3 casualties before having a 1/2 chance to run away. If you include a nob to give them a bit better chance to stick around and be USABLE! you are paying for a nob/mek, you are paying for a boss pole possibly and worse, your paying for the ability to kill D6 more of your expensive Boyz models.

In other words, Orks suck as a faction because GW doesn't know how to build functioning rules for the faction and they nerfed them into the fething ground with the 7th edition and the 7th edition codex.

In the case of Lootas you are paying 14ppm for a 6ppm boy armed with a gun that is a close equivalent to a Tau missile pod which alone would cost a Tau player 15pts.
tau missile pod Range 36" S7 ap4 assault 2.
Deffgun Range 48" S7 ap4 heavy D3.
Lootas are shooters and rangy ones at that. They are exactly the kind of unit best kept under 10 and without characters. The only reason to give them a mek is if you are putting them in a reasonably durable vehicle as mobile fire platform such as a Big Trakk or Battlewagon. If you are putting meks in large loota squads without at least giving them a battlewagon then seriously I think it is you that doesn't understand the Ork codex. The Ork codex IMHO isn't underpowered or weak but it is difficult. Similarly the SM are not overpowered (well with the possible exemption of the double demi-company lol) but it is easy. The SM codex is forgiving of mistakes. The Ork codex will burn your fingers if you misunderstand it.

Somebody probably already posted this, but you should look up mob rule in the old 4th edition codex, it was a much better, much more solid rule, and boss poles worked a lot better. It didn't entirely fix their morale problems, but it was a good rule that represented the fluff well.

 SolarCross wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

No, I think the problem here is that you don't understand the Ork faction. If I am going to be taking a Flash Gitz squad or a loota Squad or a burna squad or a kommando squad, I am paying premium points for a unit that is for all intents and purposes a boyz squad with special weapons. With LD7 those units are ALWAYS failing morale tests. LD7 = 50% pass/fail rate. So what you are effectively paying for is an expensive unit that can't take casualties because since we have to keep the units small for multiple reasons they can only afford to take 2-3 casualties before having a 1/2 chance to run away. If you include a nob to give them a bit better chance to stick around and be USABLE! you are paying for a nob/mek, you are paying for a boss pole possibly and worse, your paying for the ability to kill D6 more of your expensive Boyz models.

In other words, Orks suck as a faction because GW doesn't know how to build functioning rules for the faction and they nerfed them into the fething ground with the 7th edition and the 7th edition codex.

In the case of Lootas you are paying 14ppm for a 6ppm boy armed with a gun that is a close equivalent to a Tau missile pod which alone would cost a Tau player 15pts.
tau missile pod Range 36" S7 ap4 assault 2.
Deffgun Range 48" S7 ap4 heavy D3.
Lootas are shooters and rangy ones at that. They are exactly the kind of unit best kept under 10 and without characters. The only reason to give them a mek is if you are putting them in a reasonably durable vehicle as mobile fire platform such as a Big Trakk or Battlewagon. If you are putting meks in large loota squads without at least giving them a battlewagon then seriously I think it is you that doesn't understand the Ork codex. The Ork codex IMHO isn't underpowered or weak but it is difficult. Similarly the SM are not overpowered (well with the possible exemption of the double demi-company lol) but it is easy. The SM codex is forgiving of mistakes. The Ork codex will burn your fingers if you misunderstand it.

The difference between a Loota and a Tau model armed with that missile launcher? Well for starters you are ALWAYS firing 2 hots, Lootas can get fethed over and only fire 1 shot. Furthermore the Tau are BS3 and have easy access to buff up to BS5. Orks are BS2 meaning if you have 10 lootas on average your getting 20 shots and about 6-7 hits. For about the same price Tau can get 9 Missile pods and fire 18 shots and hit 9 times (or 12 with a single buff from Markerlights, and ignores cover from 2 markerlights.......)

And if you lose 2-3 of those lootas that unit will take a morale check and run away or lose D6 boys...feth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you don't think the ork codex is under powered or weak then your opinion is invalid.

Actually no. Because you're not factoring the platform into the points.

With 3 Crisis Suits (2 with double missile pod, one with single as it comes to 141) you're getting 7 hits on average.

This is without the aforementioned buffs, because Tau's niche is buffing their shooting - and it's more points outside the 140 spent for Lootas. In all fairness, the Markerlights is what you should be getting rid of first (which lootas can do quite easily, mind).

If you're trying to get equal shooting capabilities as Tau, especially with Orks? You're doing it wrong.

As for Mob Rule, I'm not the biggest fan of it. Not sure changing it back to Fearless would be better, as smaller units suffer then. I would propose a move first for Boss Poles to re-roll leadership, not mob rule and the +2 Mob Rule bonuses that I see becomes either +2 or -2 (Ork players choice). At least until I can think of something that works for both bigger and smaller units.

Yes I would MUCH MUCH rather have Ld 7. Ld7 with boss pole. Yes please.

Hell, boyz shouldnt even be hitting at Str4. Should be 3.

 doktor_g wrote:
Yes I would MUCH MUCH rather have Ld 7. Ld7 with boss pole. Yes please.

Hell, boyz shouldnt even be hitting at Str4. Should be 3.

I prefer mob rule as is, as it gives more control. A reroll on Ld 7 is like only equivalent to Ld10. Mob rule lets me choose between Ld7, Ld10 and Ld12 for a unit. Now there is a price for that, a blood price, but you have some control there too, painboyz and eavy armour bring down that cost some. Maybe that blood price could be cheaper, like taking hits at strength 3, just as you say. Who doesn't like a bargain?

Ghazzies modified mobrule is fairly fun too, it means you can get guaranteed Ld12 in a big mob with a character (no bosspoles required) and even the equivalent of Ld11 without any characters at all for extra robustness from snipers.

 SolarCross wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Yes I would MUCH MUCH rather have Ld 7. Ld7 with boss pole. Yes please.

Hell, boyz shouldnt even be hitting at Str4. Should be 3.

I prefer mob rule as is, as it gives more control. A reroll on Ld 7 is like only equivalent to Ld10. Mob rule lets me choose between Ld7, Ld10 and Ld12 for a unit. Now there is a price for that, a blood price, but you have some control there too, painboyz and eavy armour bring down that cost some. Maybe that blood price could be cheaper, like taking hits at strength 3, just as you say. Who doesn't like a bargain?

Ghazzies modified mobrule is fairly fun too, it means you can get guaranteed Ld12 in a big mob with a character (no bosspoles required) and even the equivalent of Ld11 without any characters at all for extra robustness from snipers.

You really don't understand the ork codex or the supplement. NO Ork unit gets leadership 12 except units with fearless, and those are few and far between, and usually pay through the nose for that benefit.

The blood price you mention is D6 S4 hits against a unit that failed the LD Check. Unless your in CC you run away 1/6th of the time, you take D6 wounds if you have a nob or other character alive 1/3rd of the time or you take D6 wounds if you have 10+ models.

For our leadership to work, orks have to pay an absurd amount of points, points that we could otherwise use for more cool toyz like mek gunz and Tank bustas (who suck but for some reason are one of the better units in our codex).

Ghazzies modified Mob rule SUCKS WORSE, yes you are never going to fail a test until you lose your character or go below 10 models but for small units you just nerfed them, they basically went from Passing 1/3rd of the time to failing 5/6th of the time. Furthermore the Mob rule for Ghaz units is D3+3, in other worse averaging 5 hits on every mob rule test, of which 2-3 will wound and unless they are in Eavy armor those 2-3 are dead.