Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I have recently noticed I have a KHRAP TON of chaos terminators and deathwing conversion into chaos termis. My main army is Death Gaurd and they have been known to have all terminator armies before so I was thinking of making a side army/project maybe to use as allies of a Chaos Death Gaurd all terminator army.

The only problems is what codex or army rules would I have to use to be able to do this? Chaos temrinators are always elites so unless theirs some wierd data sheet codex: chaos space marines is out. Could I use the Deathwing rules (in codex dark angels) but just say they are their chaos counterpart Death Guard?

Or is there some other codex army rule set that I am not thinking of where you can do all terminators and it would make some sense?



(Obviously modeling and painting them up as Death Guard, ie clearly chaos in looks, symbols, colors, and corruption)

The Purge FOC and/or Brazen Onslaught formation (though that requires a tax).

The purge detachement requires an HQ an 2 elites with 4 more optional elite slots. So you could do it with this, but the only mark allowed is a mark of nurgle.
The other option is to use the Black Legion supplement and use the chosen of abaddon formation which is 1-4 chaos lords/sorcs and a unit of chosen or terminators for each, but they may never leave the unit. You get a free gift of mutation(not the actual gift but it works the same) and fearless.
And finally you could use a Cyclopia cabal, which is 3-5 sorcerers and one of them gets a new psychic power. Oh and I guess there is the bringers of despair, which is abaddon and a unit of upgraded termies. Doesn't exactly scream deathguard though.

Using the Black Legion supplement is no big deal fluff wise, since deathguard are equally old and there is no actual Black legion fluff rule. You are forced to take Veterans of the Long War, that's it. Hell, it even features an artefact given to mortarion.
I wouldn't expect to get anything remotely playable of a pure chaos termie list mind you. It would look pretty cool though. Though using the purge detachment to sneak in some tanks would help a lot. Plus it matches death guard to a T. You even get chem flamers.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Purge FOC and/or Brazen Onslaught formation (though that requires a tax).

Where can I find the purge rules? And what is the brazen onslaught formation?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roknar wrote:
The purge detachement requires an HQ an 2 elites with 4 more optional elite slots. So you could do it with this, but the only mark allowed is a mark of nurgle.

This seems perfect, as I would only need the mark of nurgle. The purge detahcment is a formation for which army? CSM?

Just google it, it's the first picture you find . It's in Imperial Armour: Siege of Vraks. The brazen onslaught is a Khorne daemonkin formation of terminators and blood crushers. so not quite what you were looking for.
The purge detachement can be a mix of renegades & heretics and csm, including the supplement flavours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and since this is a total fluff army, you should totally take a dimensional key. An aura difficult and dangerous terrain, screw the description. That's about as close as you can get to an aura of pestilence and decay. With the bonus of accurate deepstriking depending on how much you want to deepstrike.

Roknar wrote:
Just google it, it's the first picture you find . It's in Imperial Armour: Siege of Vraks. The brazen onslaught is a Khorne daemonkin formation of terminators and blood crushers. so not quite what you were looking for.
The purge detachement can be a mix of renegades & heretics and csm, including the supplement flavours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and since this is a total fluff army, you should totally take a dimensional key. An aura difficult and dangerous terrain, screw the description. That's about as close as you can get to an aura of pestilence and decay. With the bonus of accurate deepstriking depending on how much you want to deepstrike.

Okay thanks. Yeah I probably will use the key if I do the purge as opposed to deathwing or wolves rules, since the majority of the army will be deepstirking most likely

I will say that at least Chaos Terminators are much better than Deathwing.

Wolves are pretty equal for being able to take Combi-Weapons and having stronger power weapons, but I'm pretty sure they still have to go at 5 men minimum.

The nurgle mark is one of the best marks for Chaos Terminators, especially since it's not that much of a bump but makes them exceptionally more survivable than their loyalist counterparts.

Also something to note about the Purged Detachment: It also gives you 4 heavy support slots, which gives you a lot more support since the HS slot contains probably most of the useful CSM units (I said most, not all!). So if you're like me, you'd probably spam Oblits in those slots too, to continue the theme of terminators.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The nurgle mark is one of the best marks for Chaos Terminators, especially since it's not that much of a bump but makes them exceptionally more survivable than their loyalist counterparts.

Also something to note about the Purged Detachment: It also gives you 4 heavy support slots, which gives you a lot more support since the HS slot contains probably most of the useful CSM units (I said most, not all!). So if you're like me, you'd probably spam Oblits in those slots too, to continue the theme of terminators.

Oh yeah. I mean its almost pefect. I've always loved and played nurgle for my csms but have long wanted to do a all termi army of death guard like it speaks of existing in the fluff and now I can!

And as you've said the MoN is probably the best mark for termis.

And yes I am like you and will be using some awesome Oblits too. Cause it still fits the full termi theme

MoT and MoN are equal. MoK is then 3rd place and MoS sucks.

Agreed. At least for terms

I prefer MoN over MoT most of the time. +1 to invul saves is generally only good on units that have an Invul Save to begin with (which is not all units in the codex) and MoN modifies the instant-death threshold for multi-wound units and FnP units (which is a huge thing for Obliterators and Chaos Spawns).

Also MoN is always in play, while MoT only comes into play when a unit's armor is ignored.

EDIT: Just remembered that there is one case where MoT is superior to MoN: When a unit is hit by Grav.

You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

This is definitely tempting Deathguard hate psykers so I'd do 4 lords, with around 28 (just counted my termis) termis and and oblits.

Which sounds a like an awesome army lay out so I'll look into that. Already have purge as backup



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I prefer MoN over MoT most of the time. +1 to invul saves is generally only good on units that have an Invul Save to begin with (which is not all units in the codex) and MoN modifies the instant-death threshold for multi-wound units and FnP units (which is a huge thing for Obliterators and Chaos Spawns).

Also MoN is always in play, while MoT only comes into play when a unit's armor is ignored.

EDIT: Just remembered that there is one case where MoT is superior to MoN: When a unit is hit by Grav.

Also. Yes.

 Caesar3594 wrote:

This seems perfect, as I would only need the mark of nurgle. The purge detahcment is a formation for which army? CSM?

You can found more information in https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Renegades_and_Heretics(7E)#Detachments

Roknar wrote:
Just google it, it's the first picture you find . It's in Imperial Armour: Siege of Vraks. The brazen onslaught is a Khorne daemonkin formation of terminators and blood crushers. so not quite what you were looking for.
The purge detachement can be a mix of renegades & heretics and csm, including the supplement flavours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and since this is a total fluff army, you should totally take a dimensional key. An aura difficult and dangerous terrain, screw the description. That's about as close as you can get to an aura of pestilence and decay. With the bonus of accurate deepstriking depending on how much you want to deepstrike.

Purge can be used for Chaos Marines or Renegades, but they can never be mixed within the same detachment.

Yeah I saw that when I printed out the data sheet

When you are willing to consider two backfield objective-camping Cultists you could easily do the following:

155 Sorcerer, ML3, Terminator Armor, SF, mb
155 Sorcerer, ML3, Terminator Armor, SF, mb
491 10 Terminators, 2Reapers, 5 CPlasma, 2 Chainfist, MoS, Icon of Excess
136 4 Terminators, 4 CMelta
110 3 Terminators, 3 CMelta
50 10 Cultists
50 10 Cultists
228 3 Obliterators, MoN
228 3 Obliterators, MoN
237 3 Obliterators, MoN, VotLW
1850

Or replace one of the Sorcerers with Huron to infiltrate some of the squads.

Cilithan

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

You mean the Chosen of Abbadon formation.
Bringers of Despair is Abbadon himself plus one terminator unit.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

You mean the Chosen of Abbadon formation.
Bringers of Despair is Abbadon himself plus one terminator unit.

Can Typhus be taken in any of the formations?

 Cilithan wrote:
491 10 Terminators, 2Reapers, 5 CPlasma, 2 Chainfist, MoS, Icon of Excess

Irrelevant of the rest of this list, why are you taking mark of slaanesh on terminators, especially when the OP seems to want a deathguard themed army?

 Intercessor wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Just google it, it's the first picture you find . It's in Imperial Armour: Siege of Vraks. The brazen onslaught is a Khorne daemonkin formation of terminators and blood crushers. so not quite what you were looking for.
The purge detachement can be a mix of renegades & heretics and csm, including the supplement flavours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and since this is a total fluff army, you should totally take a dimensional key. An aura difficult and dangerous terrain, screw the description. That's about as close as you can get to an aura of pestilence and decay. With the bonus of accurate deepstriking depending on how much you want to deepstrike.

Purge can be used for Chaos Marines or Renegades, but they can never be mixed within the same detachment.

I stand corrected.

For the record, MoS is so bad it isn't even worth getting FNP on your Terminators. Also, Reaper Auto cannons are garbage for 25 points. Don't even bother taking them and stick to Combi-Weapons.

 whitedragon wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

You mean the Chosen of Abbadon formation.
Bringers of Despair is Abbadon himself plus one terminator unit.

Can Typhus be taken in any of the formations?

Nope.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

You mean the Chosen of Abbadon formation.
Bringers of Despair is Abbadon himself plus one terminator unit.

Right. I named the bringers of despair formation, just couldn't remember the name of the other one. I was talking about both being options, maybe I should have separated the thought more clearly.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
You could use the Bringers of Despair formation from the updated Black Legion supplement as well as the one where you can take between 1 and 4 lords/sorcerers with terminator bodyguards.

You mean the Chosen of Abbadon formation.
Bringers of Despair is Abbadon himself plus one terminator unit.

Can Typhus be taken in any of the formations?

Nope.

Yea, for a pure termie list, you're pretty much forced to go with a purge detachment if you want to add him.

The supplement formations from the Black Legion are terrible because of the silly VotLW tax.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The supplement formations from the Black Legion are terrible because of the silly VotLW tax.

They are the only options besides the purge detachment for a full terminator list though. Totally agree for termies otherwise.
I don't mind paying the tax most of the time. It's cheap on bikes and fluffy and still bearable with min sized chosen squads. Usually I don't end up with that many VotLW units due to FW options that don't require them.
For terminators though, it's a ridiculous price to pay. 3 per dude is just way too much even for casual play. I'd only pay it for the bringers of despair or if I need to take them due to a formation tax.
Don't get me wrong, it's always paid begrudgingly, but I can live with it for fluff reasons. Except on termies. Even when I'm trying to make a fluffy list, I'll go vanilla for those.

 snykyninja wrote:

 Cilithan wrote:
491 10 Terminators, 2Reapers, 5 CPlasma, 2 Chainfist, MoS, Icon of Excess

Irrelevant of the rest of this list, why are you taking mark of slaanesh on terminators, especially when the OP seems to want a deathguard themed army?

I think they took the MoS on that squad just so they could get the icon of excess and feel no pain((totally not worth it)). But as this wonderful poster has stated this army is going to be Deathguard and I am going to use the purge detachment rules so all my marks have to be of nurgle, which I have no complaints about, +1 toughness for the entire army!!!

The Chosen of Abaddon Formation does give you something rather necessary: Fearless. Without ATSKNF, Chaos Terminators, especially in MSUs, will have to take leadership tests with almost every casualty. This is probably the only time VotLW tax isn't as heavy.

However this comes at a cost; every terminator unit will have to field a Chaos Lord or Chaos Sorceror, which can get rather expensive per unit. Not to mention not having any other options other than Land Raiders.