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Can he choose not to use the Great Axe of Khorne and strike at initiative 9?

No, the Colossal rule is in effect regardless of if he is wielding it or not due to how its worded

What about for other greater daemons? Can they choose to fight with their hands?

No, you have to choose one of the weapons you have to fight with.

But even if you were to give the Blood Thirster a second CCW and had him fight with it, he would still be at i1 because of the way Colossal is worded.

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, you have to choose one of the weapons you have to fight with.

But even if you were to give the Blood Thirster a second CCW and had him fight with it, he would still be at i1 because of the way Colossal is worded.

At least according to the Draft FAQ.

For future reference, OP, if a Weapon's rule only requires it to be "equipped" in order for it to work, it's Weapon does not need to be used in order to have an effect.

We'll see if this sticks when they release the live FAQ later on.

To answer your question specifically CKO:

Yes they can opt to not use the weapon. In your play area you'll find this is true in all the local stores and tournaments. (and the ITC in general)

This has been a contentious issue on Dakka since its release and won't be resolved until the daemons FAQ.

Until then ask your TO's or just trust me since I play in the same SWG area you do.

Fighting without a weapon with the mere type isn't permitted, that I can see. Your bare hands don't have that type.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Fighting without a weapon with the mere type isn't permitted, that I can see. Your bare hands don't have that type.

Did you mean "melee type"? Smash and Stomp both disagree on this. Unless you mean "fighting" to be "using your Attacks in the Fight Sub-Phase".

The Close Combat Weapon rule also disagrees with the last sentence. However, in order to use "both hands", you cannot have another Melee Weapon available to the model.

 Aijec wrote:

Yes they can opt to not use the weapon.

Find a rule to support this.

Because the rules state you only make close combat attacks with weapons.

 Aijec wrote:
To answer your question specifically CKO:

Yes they can opt to not use the weapon. In your play area you'll find this is true in all the local stores and tournaments. (and the ITC in general)

This has been a contentious issue on Dakka since its release and won't be resolved until the daemons FAQ.

Until then ask your TO's or just trust me since I play in the same SWG area you do.

Where does the ITC FAQ state this?

Yup, FAQ does specifically cover this.

Here's a question I saw that interested me, though. Take a chaos lord with a power fist and a lightning claw.

He'll still get an extra attack for 2x specialist weapons, but according to the FAQ, it sounds like he can no longer use lightning claws at I4, due to the power fist.

But if he uses the power fist, does the lightning claw's shred apply?

I mean, if the power fist special rules apply when using the lightning claws, it only seems reasonable that the reverse would be true.

If so, where does this 'all melee weapons rules apply' rule stop?

Could I, for example, give a warboss a 'eadwoppa's killchoppa (6s to wound are ap2 and instant death), and a power klaw, and then the power klaw gets instant death on 6s?

Where does the power fist or lightning claw state that you get their benefit by merely being equipped with them?

Well, it's the same as the colossal rule. The power fist is unwieldy, and according the FAQ, a weapon's special rules are not ignored if you're not using the weapon. So, if you have a LC/PF, you can't use the LC at initiative, because the power fist is slowing you down, just like the bloodthirster and the D axe.

The rest is just extrapolation, I suppose. I'm honestly asking how that works, based on the draft FAQ, because I'm not sure how it'll work now.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Yup, FAQ does specifically cover this.

Here's a question I saw that interested me, though. Take a chaos lord with a power fist and a lightning claw.

He'll still get an extra attack for 2x specialist weapons, but according to the FAQ, it sounds like he can no longer use lightning claws at I4, due to the power fist.

But if he uses the power fist, does the lightning claw's shred apply?

I mean, if the power fist special rules apply when using the lightning claws, it only seems reasonable that the reverse would be true.

If so, where does this 'all melee weapons rules apply' rule stop?

Could I, for example, give a warboss a 'eadwoppa's killchoppa (6s to wound are ap2 and instant death), and a power klaw, and then the power klaw gets instant death on 6s?

Does the Power Fist say "a model equipped with this weapon..." or "a model making attacks with this weapon..."? Huge difference. Colossal says 'equipped with'. Power Fist doesn't.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Well, it's the same as the colossal rule. The power fist is unwieldy, and according the FAQ, a weapon's special rules are not ignored if you're not using the weapon. So, if you have a LC/PF, you can't use the LC at initiative, because the power fist is slowing you down, just like the bloodthirster and the D axe.

The rest is just extrapolation, I suppose. I'm honestly asking how that works, based on the draft FAQ, because I'm not sure how it'll work now.

No. Its absolutely not the same. Please read the FAQ again:

Q: Do weapon special rules that say ‘a model equipped with this weapon’ or ‘this weapon’s bearer’ take effect even when not used as the attacking weapon?
A: Yes.

If it doesn't say you get the bonus by being 'equipped with' the item or 'bearing' it then you only get it when being used.

Thanks! Where exactly is that FAQ? I know I've seen it before, but I can't seem to again. I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall which page it was on.

And, yeah, the unwieldy rule says that a model attacks with an unwieldy weapon, it attacks at I1, and that is different than being equipped with.

So, thanks kris and ghaz. I thought all that sounded a little silly.

So, is a weapon having special rules that are conferred by 'being equipped' pretty rare? I don't know of any other than the D axe, and I think a imperial knight weapon.

Yeah. It is worded differently than unwieldy on a power fist in precisely the way it needs to be to cause it to be in effect regardless of weapon being actively used.

The faq is not allowing all weapon abilities to be mixed and matched. It's simply saying wargear with effects activated by "having the weapon equipped" are always active as long as the weapon is equipped.

This is for things like the great axe of khorne and the blade of blood. Not for things like lightning claws and powerfists that have completely normal weapon rules and say nothing about being "equipped" with the weapon. They follow the mix and match restriction.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Thanks! Where exactly is that FAQ? I know I've seen it before, but I can't seem to again. I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall which page it was on.

And, yeah, the unwieldy rule says that a model attacks with an unwieldy weapon, it attacks at I1, and that is different than being equipped with.

So, thanks kris and ghaz. I thought all that sounded a little silly.

So, is a weapon having special rules that are conferred by 'being equipped' pretty rare? I don't know of any other than the D axe, and I think a imperial knight weapon.

They are fairly rare. The Harlequins have a couple. As do the Skitarii.

 Aijec wrote:
To answer your question specifically CKO:

Yes they can opt to not use the weapon. In your play area you'll find this is true in all the local stores and tournaments. (and the ITC in general)

This has been a contentious issue on Dakka since its release and won't be resolved until the daemons FAQ.

Until then ask your TO's or just trust me since I play in the same SWG area you do.

Once more who are you? You know me but I don't know you, would you send me a private message with your real name? I want to put a face to your name. Also in our play area we always play by ITC rules and recently the new GW faq. This instance it is quite clear that the Daemon wielding that weapon can not strike at initiative some people may have played it wrong because they just glanced at that ruled but after being directed to the rule its quite clear.