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I was looking at a number of the big tournaments in the last year and the top Space Marine lists, and what I'm seeing is that most of the top lists are non biker, or maybe 1 bike unit and the rest drop pod/razorback Gladius Strike Forces, using the White Scars rules.

I'm just curious why their CT are so popular and seemingly effective in tournaments. I'd have thought Ultramarines with their gazillion rerolls or Imperial Fists or other such list would be the hot ones.....

Hit+run is ridiculously useful, no matter what situation you're in. You can also get Khan for scout shenanigans.

The scouting rhinos and razorbacks insure board control and allows the SM player to control the map, most of the objectives and the fight.

Being able to combine Hit and Run Gravbike Command Squads and a boat load of ObSec Tactical Squads (who also have H&R) and Razorbacks is pretty potent. Khan giving everyone Scout allows all of those Razorbacks to cruise around and gain objectives, block LOS, etc. They are really second to none when it comes to deploying a full battle company.

Khan allows Scouting Grav cannons on Tacicals in rhinos. (they now control the midfield and don't need to move, so full 24" and 5 shots on a non relentless platform)
Khan allows Scouting Grav Command Squads (scouting makes up for the lower range on grav guns compared to cannons)
Khan allows Scouting Multi Melta Attack Bikes (easier to get into double pen range turn 1 and gets board control against tanks or opposing demi-companies)
White Scars allows Ignores Cover to a squad for 20 points (see grav command squad or grav devs for why this is broken)
White Scars allows Hit & Run Grav Bikes/Command Squad/Grav Cents/Dreadnaughts etc

Hit & Run means that you can't be shot in the enemies shooting phase, which is quite handy if;
- You failed to cast invis
- You need to keep ObSec Tacs on the board after their transport has been popped
- You don't want to be shot at by a gunline

but it also means;
- That you can stop his units from moving without being stuck yourself
- You can hit and run on the last turn to get sneaky ObSec objectives or contest or capture objectives previously thought to be safe objectives
- You can't have your shooty unit (grav cents, grav command squad etc) tied up by meatshields and speed bumps (fearless cultists or conscripts, assault marines)
- You can get additional hammer of wrath hits from bikers, jump pack units and dreadnaughts (that ignore invis)
- You gain additional attacks for repeatedly charging
- You gain 4d6+3" extra movement (2d6 charge, 3" consolidate, 2d6 H&R) on the odd occassion that you need to slingshot somebody somewhere by charging a sturdy but not especially killy unit (eg, tacs, 'cron warriors etc)

Plus, ya know, +1 to jink and don't bother rolling dangerous terrain for bikes when bikes are already the strongest troops choice (closely followed by scouts).

H&R is one of the best rules in the game.

There's also the part where the Gladius gives White Scars much of the Ultramarines' rerolls as well.

As a sidenote, they really hate Cypher with power sword-wielding Chosen (Hit and Run) and I8.

 ChazSexington wrote:
As a sidenote, they really hate Cypher with power sword-wielding Chosen (Hit and Run) and I8.

I can't imagine why - they'll either feed you a worthless bit of chaff and then grav you off the board once you beat them down in a round or you'll charge something survivable and they'll H&R out and then they'll still grav you out since neither cypher nor chosen have invulnerable saves.

 Drasius wrote:

Hit & Run means that you can't be shot in the enemies shooting phase, which is quite handy if;
- You failed to cast invis
- You need to keep ObSec Tacs on the board after their transport has been popped
- You don't want to be shot at by a gunline



.

Do you mean HnR stops your units from being shot at because they are tied up by enemy units in HTH?

BTW thanks for the response.

Yep. Faced with the choice of punching on with other marines or guardsmen (or even monstrous creatures with a relatively low number of attacks and/or <5 WS) or eating fire from scatbikes/IA riptides/basilisks with ignores cover orders/grav/plasma/whatever, I'll be eating the smaller, less deadly number of attacks in CC and then leaving combat at the end of their turn so I can shoot them again in my turn. Even if you fight a carnifex or dreadnaught and lose 2-4 marines, it's still less than losing the entire squad, so overall, you're ahead. Plus you stopped one of their units from shooting.

Consider the choice of charging a carnifex or letting it shoot Twin linked devourers at you and then having it charge you. It's actually a fairly easy choice when you can just Nope. out of combat at the end of their turn.

IMO the white scars choice of tactics is in general a mistake. You do Get a lot out of Khan but the Hit and Run is actually quite useless. How does this help you vs a wraith-knight or warpsiders or scatter bikes or thunderwolves or wraiths? - the simple answer is - it doesn't. They are doing it entirely for the scout - which is useless vs an army like Necron or space-wolves 50% of your expect enemies (you just make it easier for them to assault you).

Iron Hands tactics are going to become the favorite I have no doubt. IWND on 12+ razorbacks and 6+ FNP on every model is a useful benefit.