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Hey guys and girls,

A while back I started a Chaos Daemons army as a side project and was wondering, how do Daemon players ( Or those who have vs'd them witnessed) deal with armour ? From the reading I've done the only real ways I can see is :
1 - Smash via MC ( Not my favourite as its only a single gak
2 - Flaming Chariots shots ( Seems to be one of the best options with D3 S9 shots )
3 - Soul Grinders with (IIRC) Warp Gaze
4 - Vector Striking from MC Flying (also unfavourable)

Are there any other reliable methods of popping tanks ? Even though I don't think i'll get a game in with them for some time, I find it handy to know for when I write lists to see what sort of builds are feasible. Im by no means a competitive player, but I do like balanced armies and always try to incorporate a healthy mix of anti infantry and anti tank in my armies...especially for the day I come up against a Mechanised Guard army again

Anything from the Nurgle side that has the thing that causes auto glances on a 6.

Also Bloodcrushers on the charge will have 4 S6 attacks. That would glance most things.

AV10/11: Flesh Hounds, Seekers, Screamers, Plague Drones, Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Demonettes, Plague Bearers.

AV12+: Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Plague Drones, Plague Bearers.

Renegade Knights can be kitted to your liking to solve any problem you have. Bloodthirsters of Insensate Rage bring the Strength D melee too. Be'lakor has S7 Armourbane in melee.

Greater Rewards on your Princes/Greater Demons will give them tools for dealing with higher armour values (Greater Etherblades or the Armourbane/Fleshbane reward). Slaanesh can get the Lash of Despair too, which pairs particularly nicely with the Iron Arm psychic power for some ranged shooting. Tzeentch has it even better since the Staff of Change is a Lesser Reward and will make them S8. Psychic Powers (Invisibility, Shrouding, Precognition, Forewarning, Cursed Earth etc) will give them the protection to get into combat.

I have been having way more luck against armored lists now that I've started running a Warpflame host. The boost to psychic shooting and the forced theme of the list results in alot of str 7+ shooting at 18" to 24". With pink horrors you can stretch your blob out and usually have pretty good maneuverability for line of sight, and your shooting being psychic means the squad can run out of charge range or into cover again afterwards.

Exalted flamers have popped some vehicles for me as well, they make quite good turrets in the right situation. Also, you can pepper some daemon lords or a Forgehost in there quite easily which can both help against armour.

I wrecked a monolith from full hull points with plaguebearers and a herald once. Statistically likely as long as you have about 10 or more charging. Not good against walkers or anything with a save though.

I find a unit of screamers that manages to get into combat will take out almost anything, they are great. Str 5 with armourbane is pretty strong especially with a unit larger than 3

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Anything from the Nurgle side that has the thing that causes auto glances on a 6.

Also Bloodcrushers on the charge will have 4 S6 attacks. That would glance most things.

Throwing abundance of nurgle at things could definitely do it through weight of numbers, but im after more dedicated anti armour options sorta like what a lascannon or Power Fist is to a marine

GoonBandito wrote:AV10/11: Flesh Hounds, Seekers, Screamers, Plague Drones, Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Demonettes, Plague Bearers.

AV12+: Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Plague Drones, Plague Bearers.

Renegade Knights can be kitted to your liking to solve any problem you have. Bloodthirsters of Insensate Rage bring the Strength D melee too. Be'lakor has S7 Armourbane in melee.

Greater Rewards on your Princes/Greater Demons will give them tools for dealing with higher armour values (Greater Etherblades or the Armourbane/Fleshbane reward). Slaanesh can get the Lash of Despair too, which pairs particularly nicely with the Iron Arm psychic power for some ranged shooting. Tzeentch has it even better since the Staff of Change is a Lesser Reward and will make them S8. Psychic Powers (Invisibility, Shrouding, Precognition, Forewarning, Cursed Earth etc) will give them the protection to get into combat.

Slaanesh for the rending and Khorne for the additional S ? Wouldn't those be like 5's and 6's on most things still ? As for plague drones how do they work ? I haven't had any experience with them yet (im ashamed to say as a Nurgle fan ) .

Knights would do it, but I always try to find ways to handle things without any allies as much as possible.

Are Greater Etherblades Sx2 like a PF ? Psychic abilities definitely are a core value of all non mono Khorne armies

Sorry for noobishness I used to VS Daemons way back but it was along time in a different edition. I haven't played using my daemons as a solo army yet.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:I have been having way more luck against armored lists now that I've started running a Warpflame host. The boost to psychic shooting and the forced theme of the list results in alot of str 7+ shooting at 18" to 24". With pink horrors you can stretch your blob out and usually have pretty good maneuverability for line of sight, and your shooting being psychic means the squad can run out of charge range or into cover again afterwards.

Exalted flamers have popped some vehicles for me as well, they make quite good turrets in the right situation. Also, you can pepper some daemon lords or a Forgehost in there quite easily which can both help against armour.

I wrecked a monolith from full hull points with plaguebearers and a herald once. Statistically likely as long as you have about 10 or more charging. Not good against walkers or anything with a save though.

I will admit the Tzeentch stuff seems like a great bet in terms of S , its just the special rule giving your opponent FNP that makes me cringe

Hmm yeah weight of dice is awesome and does work well, I am more looking for dedicated options. What have your experiences been with the Chariots and the D3 lascannon-esc shots ? So far that seems like the best bet bar the Blood Thirster / Daemon Princes.

I will admit the Tzeentch stuff seems like a great bet in terms of S , its just the special rule giving your opponent FNP that makes me cringe

Only relevant if you kill part of a unit. If you pick one unit and blow it to dust bunnies, it never gets to roll.

for plague drones how do they work ? I haven't had any experience with them yet (im ashamed to say as a Nurgle fan ) .

Fast as hell and with auto-glancing weapons. Plus enough toughness to take the odd hit. They're damn nice units. Plus, their unit champions can be scary as - a Plaguebringer with a Greater Etherblade and a Venom Sting has a S5, AP2 attack with Master Crafted and Instant Death. That's enough to make monstrous creatures very, very nervous.

If you want a tank dead, you can't go far wrong with the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. He's not a safe unit, or a cheap unit, and there's always a risk he'll be gunned down before he makes it to the enemy, or killed before he gets to heft his axe. But if he gets to swing, nothing, but nothing, can tank 8 WS10 destroyer attacks.

Tzeench is fine unless your opponant brings the anti psy assasin then all you have are bad cc troops hardly any shooting and you give him a load of shots in the psy phase. Soul grinders and the burning chariot are good and the skull cannon is not to be sniffed at for the odd hull point plus its grenade ability.
Unfortunatly to get the best anti armour for me is to have a mixed god list a mono can work but its tough to get everything right.

Tzeench is fine unless your opponant brings the anti psy assasin then all you have are bad cc troops

Not necessarily. A lord of change with a Kung Fu stick remains perfectly effective antitank even without his psychic powers, and with easy access to a 3+ invulnerable save, rerolling '1's, can even afford to go face-to-beak with a walker that can fight back.

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:

Slaanesh for the rending and Khorne for the additional S ? Wouldn't those be like 5's and 6's on most things still ? As for plague drones how do they work ? I haven't had any experience with them yet (im ashamed to say as a Nurgle fan ) .

Knights would do it, but I always try to find ways to handle things without any allies as much as possible.

Are Greater Etherblades Sx2 like a PF ? Psychic abilities definitely are a core value of all non mono Khorne armies

Sorry for noobishness I used to VS Daemons way back but it was along time in a different edition. I haven't played using my daemons as a solo army yet.

The way to kill vehicles in this edition is through weight of fire. Yes, Khorne and Slaanesh might only be glancing on 5s or 6s but its the weight of attacks behind it that do it. Most vehicles are only 3HP, and most of them also only have AV10 on the rear armour. Thats why Flesh Hounds make a mockery of Imperial Guard tank companies - you'll be across the board and slamming 3 S5 attacks per dog into their juicy AV10 rear armour in 2 turns. While S8 pie plates might sound nasty to your 2W T4 5++ dogs, in practice you should have complete control over the psychic phase and therefore be able to buff out the Hounds with Invisibility, Cursed Earth, Forewarning or something similar so they shrug off alot of the shooting.

Going for High Strength, Low AP, Single Shot attacks is not effective unfortunately. Its why the 'traditional' Anti-Tank stuff (Lascannons, Power Fists, the single Melta-Bomb on your sergeant, Missile Launchers etc) are outclassed by the mid-strength, high RoF shooting in the game atm (Scatter Lasers, High Yield Missile Pods, Grav Cannons, Haywire Grenades etc). I see you're focused on the Exalted Flamer's Blue Fire of Tzeentch (the d3 'lascannon' shots) - thats 100pts you're paying for an average of 1 lascannon hit per phase (after the d3 roll, then your BS4 To Hit roll), which will need to roll a 6 to pen AV14 and then another 6 to Explode! it. The odds are pretty terrible, and don't really get much better against AV13 or even AV12. The Exalted Flamer is much better off roasting MEQ with the Pink Fire of Tzeentch (S5 AP3 Torrent).

Greater Etherblades are S+1 Mastercraft. That makes your Princes/Greater Demons S7 (perfect for glancing out AV12) and Khorne will be S8 due to Furious Charge. Make sure your Princes/Greater Demons are tricked out with Psychic shenanigans first though.

locarno24 wrote:
Fast as hell and with auto-glancing weapons. Plus enough toughness to take the odd hit. They're damn nice units. Plus, their unit champions can be scary as - a Plaguebringer with a Greater Etherblade and a Venom Sting has a S5, AP2 attack with Master Crafted and Instant Death. That's enough to make monstrous creatures very, very nervous.

If you want a tank dead, you can't go far wrong with the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. He's not a safe unit, or a cheap unit, and there's always a risk he'll be gunned down before he makes it to the enemy, or killed before he gets to heft his axe. But if he gets to swing, nothing, but nothing, can tank 8 WS10 destroyer attacks.

Hmm solid definitely sound nasty which is fantastic since I've been wanting to get some for their aesthetic for some time now. Are they 12 inch movement like jump infantry?

Skullhammer wrote:
Unfortunatly to get the best anti armour for me is to have a mixed god list a mono can work but its tough to get everything right.

Yeah I originally had written mono-Tzeentch lists but found that the army was far more flexible by integrating at least 3 of the 4. Also helps to stop things getting stale for painting purposes !
The lists I am writing now days are typically a mix between : Khorne - for the face smashing goodness of the Thirsters and ranged attack of the cannon, Nurgle for the higher T and 'touch of rust ' (IIRC) special rule for the glances, and Tzeentch to fulfill the psychic phase.

GoonBandito wrote:
The way to kill vehicles in this edition is through weight of fire. Yes, Khorne and Slaanesh might only be glancing on 5s or 6s but its the weight of attacks behind it that do it. Most vehicles are only 3HP, and most of them also only have AV10 on the rear armour. Thats why Flesh Hounds make a mockery of Imperial Guard tank companies - you'll be across the board and slamming 3 S5 attacks per dog into their juicy AV10 rear armour in 2 turns. While S8 pie plates might sound nasty to your 2W T4 5++ dogs, in practice you should have complete control over the psychic phase and therefore be able to buff out the Hounds with Invisibility, Cursed Earth, Forewarning or something similar so they shrug off alot of the shooting.

Going for High Strength, Low AP, Single Shot attacks is not effective unfortunately. Its why the 'traditional' Anti-Tank stuff (Lascannons, Power Fists, the single Melta-Bomb on your sergeant, Missile Launchers etc) are outclassed by the mid-strength, high RoF shooting in the game atm (Scatter Lasers, High Yield Missile Pods, Grav Cannons, Haywire Grenades etc). I see you're focused on the Exalted Flamer's Blue Fire of Tzeentch (the d3 'lascannon' shots) - thats 100pts you're paying for an average of 1 lascannon hit per phase (after the d3 roll, then your BS4 To Hit roll), which will need to roll a 6 to pen AV14 and then another 6 to Explode! it. The odds are pretty terrible, and don't really get much better against AV13 or even AV12. The Exalted Flamer is much better off roasting MEQ with the Pink Fire of Tzeentch (S5 AP3 Torrent).

Greater Etherblades are S+1 Mastercraft. That makes your Princes/Greater Demons S7 (perfect for glancing out AV12) and Khorne will be S8 due to Furious Charge. Make sure your Princes/Greater Demons are tricked out with Psychic shenanigans first though.

I can definitely see what you mean here and that is a good point, it's going to make me re-evaluate things for sure. I think I was just stuck in the ways of the Marine style player from my past experiences and was looking for a similar structure, which I learnt very fast the Daemons are anything but.

While you're here, I wanted to ask in terms of Psychic abilities , do you prefer to run one big caster such as say Kairos or a LoC , or multiple smaller Heralds for that extra diversity and extra dakka ? Most of the lists I've been writing feature both a LoC big boy and a smaller Herald on Disc for some flanky / mobile support goodness.

Also, not the best option, but nobody seems to have mentioned it: Skull Cannons shoot at S8. It's AP5 only, so you're not going to explode anything, but it's a large blast at BS5 so you're pretty likely to hit the target and maybe something next to it. Better for hordes, but if you have nothing else it'll do in a pinch.

Fateweaver has a Str D shooting attack, should sort out most armour.

People worry about the Warpflame rule, but when you're slinging str7+ down the field you can pick your powers and their targets appropriately to deny it in most cases. Just don't shoot a small amount at something T6 or higher.

Another reason a Forgehost does wonders with the Warpflame host... they aren't psykers and they're 4 cc attacks at str 10 so they can hunt targets your Warpflame is less efficient at. They also have good shooting weapons.

I'll second what khornes right hand said, skull cannons are surprisingly good against open topped skimmers, especially if they're grouped together.

Tzeentch chariots are alright, but squishy for 100 points. I personally like the exalted flamers (chariot guy with no chariot) planted in horror squads or advantageous firing lanes. If nothing else they will keep things away from your model's line of sight. They get +1 str from the bonus so str6 ap3 torrent and str10 ap2 d3 solid shot.

I can indeed attest to the exalted flamers doing work in a Warpflame Host. I ran one with 4 in as many units of Horrors and when my opponent was less than cautious with his WK (sword and shield variety) they put enough wounds through that my LoC could finish it in CC before he had a chance to swing.

wtnind wrote:Fateweaver has a Str D shooting attack, should sort out most armour.

I'll admit I haven't looked into Fateweaver all that much, though I have noticed he is a cornerstone of a lot of lists and it isn't hard to see why particular with the reroll shinnanniganz and casting badassery he has. Though I hate the model and will be coming up with my own conversion

KharnsRightHand wrote:Also, not the best option, but nobody seems to have mentioned it: Skull Cannons shoot at S8. It's AP5 only, so you're not going to explode anything, but it's a large blast at BS5 so you're pretty likely to hit the target and maybe something next to it. Better for hordes, but if you have nothing else it'll do in a pinch.

True enough, I did notice it was S8 while going through the codex. Definitely handy to have on the field for both infantry hunting and anti tank plan B (unless as mentioned its open topped or skimmer, then its just awesome.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:

Another reason a Forgehost does wonders with the Warpflame host... they aren't psykers and they're 4 cc attacks at str 10 so they can hunt targets your Warpflame is less efficient at. They also have good shooting weapons.

And just like that I completely missed the "Iron Claw' listed under the Grinder. Up till now I have been looking at it wondering how it's only S6 Makes me glad I have two of the fellas on sprue I got for a good deal online

Reavas wrote:I find a unit of screamers that manages to get into combat will take out almost anything, they are great. Str 5 with armourbane is pretty strong especially with a unit larger than 3

I'll admit I had looked at the screamers and had not really taken them all that seriously, though I guess armour bane being 2D6 could add up to a fantastic potential of 17 (IIRC correctly about Armour bane, haven't played in many months.

astro_nomicon wrote:I can indeed attest to the exalted flamers doing work in a Warpflame Host. I ran one with 4 in as many units of Horrors and when my opponent was less than cautious with his WK (sword and shield variety) they put enough wounds through that my LoC could finish it in CC before he had a chance to swing.

Is this a tactic used to prevent people charging Horror squads or anything that might stray too close ? I will admit I hadn't thought of attaching an Exalted Flamer to anything bar a unit of flamers, which Im not entirely keen on. Do you have much use for Flamer units or are they over shadowed by the awesome Horrors ?

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
While you're here, I wanted to ask in terms of Psychic abilities , do you prefer to run one big caster such as say Kairos or a LoC , or multiple smaller Heralds for that extra diversity and extra dakka ? Most of the lists I've been writing feature both a LoC big boy and a smaller Herald on Disc for some flanky / mobile support goodness.

The main thing you need is Warp Charge dice, and lots of them. Due to how the Psychic Phase works, casting powers is really unreliable unless you have the large pool of dice to throw into them. A single dice in a WC1 spell only has a 50% chance of succeeding. 2 Dice is only 75%. 3 Dice is probably your goal, which gives you 87.5% chance. When talking about a WC2 spell, you need 5 dice to give you ~82% chance to cast the spell. WC3 you need 8 dice to get ~85%. You can drop back to 4 dice for WC2 and 6 dice for WC3 if you're happy with only having roughly a 65-68% chance of casting, but even so the pool of dice you need to reliably cast spells needs to be pretty large.

That means lots of psykers. Luckily, Pink Horrors are pretty good at being Warp Charge batteries (take them in units of 11 for the extra WC die, and hide them out of LoS on an objective). ML3 Tzeentch Horrors are also quite cheap, and you can put them on a Disc to make them very mobile. If you can generate around 12-15 dice per psychic phase, that should put you in a really good position to cast a WC3, WC2 and a couple of WC1 spells per turn.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
While you're here, I wanted to ask in terms of Psychic abilities , do you prefer to run one big caster such as say Kairos or a LoC , or multiple smaller Heralds for that extra diversity and extra dakka ? Most of the lists I've been writing feature both a LoC big boy and a smaller Herald on Disc for some flanky / mobile support goodness.

The main thing you need is Warp Charge dice, and lots of them. Due to how the Psychic Phase works, casting powers is really unreliable unless you have the large pool of dice to throw into them. A single dice in a WC1 spell only has a 50% chance of succeeding. 2 Dice is only 75%. 3 Dice is probably your goal, which gives you 87.5% chance. When talking about a WC2 spell, you need 5 dice to give you ~82% chance to cast the spell. WC3 you need 8 dice to get ~85%. You can drop back to 4 dice for WC2 and 6 dice for WC3 if you're happy with only having roughly a 65-68% chance of casting, but even so the pool of dice you need to reliably cast spells needs to be pretty large.

That means lots of psykers. Luckily, Pink Horrors are pretty good at being Warp Charge batteries (take them in units of 11 for the extra WC die, and hide them out of LoS on an objective). ML3 Tzeentch Horrors are also quite cheap, and you can put them on a Disc to make them very mobile. If you can generate around 12-15 dice per psychic phase, that should put you in a really good position to cast a WC3, WC2 and a couple of WC1 spells per turn.

Thanks for that.
I like the randomness of my games and so usually dont look at in depth statistics and rather throw what I think will work or be fun. Needless to say most of my games are friendly

However, I hadn't thought of camping Horrors on objectives as their psychic Dakka ability had always made me think frontline troopers or flanking units. I was taking them in squads of 16 in all my lists to get max WC dice

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
While you're here, I wanted to ask in terms of Psychic abilities , do you prefer to run one big caster such as say Kairos or a LoC , or multiple smaller Heralds for that extra diversity and extra dakka ? Most of the lists I've been writing feature both a LoC big boy and a smaller Herald on Disc for some flanky / mobile support goodness.

The main thing you need is Warp Charge dice, and lots of them. Due to how the Psychic Phase works, casting powers is really unreliable unless you have the large pool of dice to throw into them. A single dice in a WC1 spell only has a 50% chance of succeeding. 2 Dice is only 75%. 3 Dice is probably your goal, which gives you 87.5% chance. When talking about a WC2 spell, you need 5 dice to give you ~82% chance to cast the spell. WC3 you need 8 dice to get ~85%. You can drop back to 4 dice for WC2 and 6 dice for WC3 if you're happy with only having roughly a 65-68% chance of casting, but even so the pool of dice you need to reliably cast spells needs to be pretty large.

That means lots of psykers. Luckily, Pink Horrors are pretty good at being Warp Charge batteries (take them in units of 11 for the extra WC die, and hide them out of LoS on an objective). ML3 Tzeentch Horrors are also quite cheap, and you can put them on a Disc to make them very mobile. If you can generate around 12-15 dice per psychic phase, that should put you in a really good position to cast a WC3, WC2 and a couple of WC1 spells per turn.

Kairos is good because he knows 13 psychic powers (7 Tzeentch powers + each head knows 2 book powers + 1 malefic power). It's the same reason Bel'kor is so great because he knows ALL the telepathy powers which includes Invisibility (also he can punch out imperial knights with his Armourbane sword but that's beside the point). Kairos is also the cheapest source of guaranteed ranged Str-D we have.

A 75% chance is what I try to go for, bear in mind that the chance of perils goes up exponentially with the more dice you roll. So a sorcerer with a spell familiar can happily try to cast psychic scream with only one dice because his re-roll gives him a 75% chance to cast. If you perils on Bel'kor or Kairos and then they fail their roll to stay in the air after taking a wound you just lost 300 points and a core piece of your army! So I roll (2 dice for WC1, 5 for WC2 and 7 for WC 3) unless its super important that I get it off or I don't have anything else I want to use the WC on.

3 dice on a WC 1 power has a 7% chance to peril (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/596285.page) up from 2% with only 2 dice. For me the 5% increased risk of perils isn't worth it for a 10% increase in cast success (unless it's on pink horrors who don't matter if they die).

Screamers are rather good. They will be hitting a value of 11 half the time, and have chances to pen AV14 with AP2 hits.

Exalted flamers are extremely good.

Plague drones can score lots of glances due to the number of attacks they get.

Flickering fire from a warpflame host (STR 7) can do a number against weak rear armor. 4d6 of those shots from a prescienced's herald into the rear of a brass scorpion is not that bad. (8/9 to hit * 1/2 to wound * 14 shots = 6.2 hull points)

Daemon princes with the right rewards can be nasty. A staff on LoC hits rather hard, since its +2 STR.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Screamers are rather good. They will be hitting a value of 11 half the time, and have chances to pen AV14 with AP2 hits.

Exalted flamers are extremely good.

Plague drones can store lots of glances due to the number of attacks they get.

Flickering fire from a warpflame host (STR 7) can do a number against weak rear armor. 4d6 of those shots from a prescienced's herald into the rear of a brass scorpion is not that bad. (8/9 to hit * 1/2 to wound * 14 shots = 6.2 hull points)

Daemon princes with the right rewards can be nasty. A staff on LoC hits rather hard, since its +2 STR.

I am definitely starting to see the Daemon codex is littered with potential candidates for a role I once thought was pretty empty

Is this a tactic used to prevent people charging Horror squads or anything that might stray too close ? I will admit I hadn't thought of attaching an Exalted Flamer to anything bar a unit of flamers, which Im not entirely keen on. Do you have much use for Flamer units or are they over shadowed by the awesome Horrors ?

Flamers have their uses - a unit of jump troops each with a flamer will always be good. They are, however, emphatically aggressive light infantry hunters - summoned or deployed, bouncing up cover to cover to kill off something with a 3+ or 2+ cover save. They're not bad, because Tzeench doesn't have access to much that's ignore cover, and (lacking grenade analogues) daemons don't generally like having to charge assault units into cover to dig someone out.

The Exalted Flamer is also good, but as noted pairs far, far better with horrors than other flamers. All his attacks are heavy weapons - fine when he's on his ride as he gains relentless, but on foot it makes him static. Horrors are a static footslogging unit that wants to dig in on an objective and occasionally fling warpflame up the board (or more likely pass warp charge to someone else to do the same). An exalted flamer with them provides them with the 'heavy weapons' you'd normally want an infantry squad to have - and in a Warpflame host, essentially has a pair of (short range) railguns in his back pocket.

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
Is this a tactic used to prevent people charging Horror squads or anything that might stray too close ? I will admit I hadn't thought of attaching an Exalted Flamer to anything bar a unit of flamers, which Im not entirely keen on. Do you have much use for Flamer units or are they over shadowed by the awesome Horrors ?

This is my current list, and I use 27 flamers. Thus far it has been doing rather well.

Anybody use Daemonology Summoning? It's probably in the Daemon codex but can Daemons charge on the turn they're summoned?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Anybody use Daemonology Summoning? It's probably in the Daemon codex but can Daemons charge on the turn they're summoned?

No, they cannot. Summoning is pretty keen, and a nice way to boost your army. It's not uncommon in an 1850 point game for me to summon 500 points of extra models.

Edit : That sounds amazing, but it's not that over the top. The models you summon are not optimized. For example, a D-thirster with 2 greater rewards is much more powerful than a vanilla thirster. 10 daemonettes, while nice, alone don't do that much.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Anybody use Daemonology Summoning? It's probably in the Daemon codex but can Daemons charge on the turn they're summoned?

No, they cannot. Summoning is pretty keen, and a nice way to boost your army. It's not uncommon in an 1850 point game for me to summon 500 points of extra models.

I'm not using Chaos to summon these things so it's pretty risky for me, but extra models are hard to pass up.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Anybody use Daemonology Summoning? It's probably in the Daemon codex but can Daemons charge on the turn they're summoned?

No, they cannot. Summoning is pretty keen, and a nice way to boost your army. It's not uncommon in an 1850 point game for me to summon 500 points of extra models.

I'm not using Chaos to summon these things so it's pretty risky for me, but extra models are hard to pass up.

For the most part I use them to bog enemies down.

One of my favorite things to summon are plague drones. They are great for just clogging the wheels behind an enemy. Sure, they might kill a squad of devastators or something, but usually they just hold up a knight for a turn or two then die. I'm OK with this, as they were summoned units.

Another common summon are daemonettes or plague bearers. I will summon plague bearers to squat on an objective, a task they excel at. I'll summon daemonettes to be aggressive. 10 Daemonettes assaulting can be very nasty to a lot of units.

Poping out more heralds is always nice. Remember, they don't wind up automatically joined to the squad, so they have to spend a turn alone before they can join up. This can be a problem if you are summoning a nurgle herald with a FNP loci to join a summoned unit of plague drones.

The D-Thirster is the final summon I make. I usually throw it at an enemy knight or something. Sometimes I'll use it to draw away an enemy deathstar for a turn or two.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Anybody use Daemonology Summoning? It's probably in the Daemon codex but can Daemons charge on the turn they're summoned?

No, they cannot. Summoning is pretty keen, and a nice way to boost your army. It's not uncommon in an 1850 point game for me to summon 500 points of extra models.

I'm not using Chaos to summon these things so it's pretty risky for me, but extra models are hard to pass up.

For the most part I use them to bog enemies down.

One of my favorite things to summon are plague drones. They are great for just clogging the wheels behind an enemy. Sure, they might kill a squad of devastators or something, but usually they just hold up a knight for a turn or two then die. I'm OK with this, as they were summoned units.

Another common summon are daemonettes or plague bearers. I will summon plague bearers to squat on an objective, a task they excel at. I'll summon daemonettes to be aggressive. 10 Daemonettes assaulting can be very nasty to a lot of units.

Poping out more heralds is always nice. Remember, they don't wind up automatically joined to the squad, so they have to spend a turn alone before they can join up. This can be a problem if you are summoning a nurgle herald with a FNP loci to join a summoned unit of plague drones.

The D-Thirster is the final summon I make. I usually throw it at an enemy knight or something. Sometimes I'll use it to draw away an enemy deathstar for a turn or two.

You seem to know exactly what I'm trying to do. What Daemons would make the most tempting targets to draw enemy fire away from my own units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm using the Heralds of the Great Wolf formation as my summoners. As long as the Wolf Priest is alive in the formation the Heralds each have 'It Will Not Die' meaning that the wounds generated by perils might be recovered, lowering the risks but still not completely negating them - after all there's still the chance of getting sucked into the warp.
It also makes Sacrifice a viable option.
Still, that dice might be painful.

Belakor is usually a pretty decent Tank killer and othe princes if the roll well on psychic or a greater reward that gives armourbane. also touch of rust on nurgle buddies works well

The D-Thirster is the final summon I make

Are you talking about summoning a D-Thister? Are you sure you can? I think it has to be the Bloodthirster from the CD codex.