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I just saw on drudgereport. When will this hate end?


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Here is a link

http://news.sky.com/story/1718871/nearly-50-killed-in-istanbul-airport-attack

I for one would really appreciate a summary of the politics involved here if anyone in the know could help me put it together.

As I gather Turkey is traditionally Muslim but not pro IS, though Erdogan has been tacitly supporting IS in the eradication of the Kurds (for which he's being pursued with a war crimes wrap) and a some brave Turkish intellectuals have been appealing for his removal from power. And Erdogan has been publicly anti-IS though he's fooling no one... Except maybe IS who just went and did that...

I know the above is a hasty and no doubt ill informed synopsis. I'd appreciate anyone who can correct me where I'm way off and fill in the blanks. Thanks.

 theCrowe wrote:
I for one would really appreciate a summary of the politics involved here if anyone in the know could help me put it together.

To be brief;

Turkey doesn't like Assad. Turkey dislikes the Kurds even more. You know how the US sometimes seems like it treats all Muslims as terrorists in waiting? Well Turkey does the same thing with Kurds, and that accusation actually has meat behind it now with how much support the Kurds have gotten to fight ISIS.

The conflict with ISIS is complicated by the regional powers involved all basically hating each other almost as much as ISIS. Please reference this flow chart for a general idea of who hates who;





But seriously it's kind of like that, and the various groups that hate each other, will work together against other groups they both hate. Turkey will "help" ISIS attack Kurds or Assad. Assad helps ISIS attack Syrian rebels. The Kurds/Jordan/Turkey/Syria all helped ISIS smuggle oil out of Iraq for awhile (not really caught up on how that's going now though). They're all one big collection of frenemies and recognize at least among themselves that just because they can work against one enemy, they're not really friends. That's how you get Turkey helping ISIS blow up some Syrians one week, and ISIS blowing up Turkey the next (and it's not like everyone in ISIS is talking to everyone else in ISIS about what they're doing either).

Erdogan doesn't support ISIS per se. ISIS would actually seem a threat to his long term goals of Ottoman revival. Turkey is not an Islamic State (capital letters), but it is a State mostly populated by Muslims. Turkey's government is nominally secular, but it's very ethnocentric. Non-Turks have limited rights in Turkey, especially Kurds. And that's kind of how we come full circle. Turkey might not like Syria, ISIS, or the Kurds, but for Turkey's part they probably like the Kurds the very least if only for very established cultural and historical reasons.

Hope that helps.

 Laemos wrote:
When will this hate end?

When there is no more radical Islam. That is, when ALL of the Muslims in the world decide to grow up and "live and let live". That said, until this happens, radical Muslims will continue to practice their "convert or die" philosophy toward non-Muslims. Now, I'm NOT saying all Muslims are evil or any such thing. I've known some Muslims personally, and the ones I knew certainly weren't about to strap on a suicide vest and blow themselves up in the local mall/airport/other crowded place. The problem is the radical ones, and the threat of violence from them will not end until they are all dead or until they somehow give up their hate and adopt a more realistic viewpoint of the world.

Now the honest answer is that it will never end. Hate will always exist.

more from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/28/europe/turkey-istanbul-airport-attacks/

 LordofHats wrote:
Turkey might not like Syria, ISIS, or the Kurds, but for Turkey's part they probably like the Kurds the very least if only for very established cultural and historical reasons.

No, I think the Turks like the Armenians the very least.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
No, I think the Turks like the Armenians the very least.

Probably true, but the Armenians aren't much invovled in the ISIS conflict as far as I know

BBC has slightly different numbers than was first reported.

A gun and bomb attack on Istanbul's Ataturk international airport has killed 36 people and injured more than 140, officials say.

Still way too many dead but less than the initial reports so there is that, at least.

yellowfever wrote:
Now the honest answer is that it will never end. Hate will always exist.

History is full of conflicts, some dragging on for centuries, that went away. Conflict is hard and horrible, people don't just do it for no reason. When the underlying reasons disappear, then in time so does the conflict.

Thanks for the breakdown (if you'll pardon the expression)

I really should also say that I've holidayed in Turkey and I've got to say we found the Turkish folks to be really lovely, its sad that there's so much anti-Turkish sentiment flying around while they're getting targeted by terrorists too. I feel like the western media will go quiet on this pretty sharpish and the Turks will be left stuck in the middle between Erdogan and ISIS with as many syrian refugees as can be kept within their borders.

Would it be incredibly Eurocentric of me to ask if the targeting of the Istanbul airport had anything to do with the high profile sponsorship of the Euro2016 by Turkish airways?

Stepping back a bit, there's this:
"Would the world be more peaceful without religion?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zcnm82p

Horrible news.

I am really happy I went to Istanbul before all these horrible attacks started.
In any case, when I was there last year, security at Ataturk airport seemed very good. A lot better than at Schiphol in the Netherlands actually.

 theCrowe wrote:
Thanks for the breakdown (if you'll pardon the expression)

I really should also say that I've holidayed in Turkey and I've got to say we found the Turkish folks to be really lovely, its sad that there's so much anti-Turkish sentiment flying around while they're getting targeted by terrorists too. I feel like the western media will go quiet on this pretty sharpish and the Turks will be left stuck in the middle between Erdogan and ISIS with as many syrian refugees as can be kept within their borders.

Would it be incredibly Eurocentric of me to ask if the targeting of the Istanbul airport had anything to do with the high profile sponsorship of the Euro2016 by Turkish airways?

It might be that Euro 2016 has drawn more attention to Turkey. I've seen a lot of advertising by Turkish Airways recently.

Essentially though, Turkey is being targeted because it is a western-aligned nation of predominantly Islamic religion with a secular western style constitution -- hateful to ISIL -- and borders Syria making it easier to get people into the country and to radicalise some of the citizens.

Or, more likely, it's that the Turks met with Israel and are normalizing diplomatic relations with them. That overt support of the Zionists was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for who Daesh is, and what their geopolitical aims are.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Or, more likely, it's that the Turks met with Israel and are normalizing diplomatic relations with them. That overt support of the Zionists was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for who Daesh is, and what their geopolitical aims are.

Turkey has always generally been friendly with Israel though. They're no Arabs, and in terms of government and politics they don't find the existence of a non-Islamic country as a neighbor an insult (or play it that). The recent spat between Turkey and Israel was just that. Recent, and not significant enough that it wouldn't eventually blow over. I'm sure that Daesh, being from the region and all are already aware of that. It's reason to dislike Turkey, but not a new reason and probably unrelated to this attack.

 theCrowe wrote:
I really should also say that I've holidayed in Turkey and I've got to say we found the Turkish folks to be really lovely, its sad that there's so much anti-Turkish sentiment flying around while they're getting targeted by terrorists too.

Well, that's the thing. Turkish people are generally quite friendly and practice their religion quite a bit less stringently than some others (if they do at all) but there are a few matters of national pride that can make even the most laid-back Turk explode. Referring to the Armenian genocide of 1915 as such is absolutely not a good idea, and saying something good about Greece (or bad about the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus after the Cypriot Greeks tried a military coup) isn't something I'd recommend either. Though the most irritating thing for them right now is the Kurds, no questions asked. It's hard enough Turkey had to admit there is such a language and people (it used to be illegal). You should absolutely not imply the Kurds might deserve to have their own nation. Because then they'd want the Kurdish area or Turkey too, and that's unacceptable.

And that drawing surely illustrates how messed up the whole area is. Not just them, but everyone outside who tries to get involved for some reason of their own too! Like the way powers like the USA, UK or France conveniently decide why some party is good or bad, supports them and then has to support another and another after the first becomes useless and has to be stopped. Evil Saddam uses chemical weapons on the poor innocent Kurds? Well, that's different from using them in heroic defense against the evil Iranians so better bomb him. The Kurds have some totally illegitimate beef with Turkey? Well, a fellow NATO member can't be wrong about that so let them bomb some Kurds while we don't look.