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I have made this blood angel list ready for throne of skulls in September, How viable is this list?

I have been advised to replace my libbys with a conclave ally but this would prevent them from joining my tac squads in their rhinos and limit their mobility. Would this be worth it or would they just become a bolter sponge?

I had planned on using the vet squad to babysit my warlord, the tacs squads to cap any objectives, and the assault squads are to drop in and take out enemy heavy armour. The knight is my fire support and should be able to keep the pain coming and the scouts are more opportunistic, I may leave them on my objectives or use them to infiltrate and take try to suppress my opponent. I am aware the list is 3pts over and I'm looking to take them off from somewhere, this is just a first draft.

+++ ToS 1 (1750pts) +++

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (620pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Relics and Detachment-rules [Codex: Blood Angels]

Sanguinary Discipline

+ HQ (190pts) +

Librarian (95pts) [Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, Psyker (ML2)]

Librarian (95pts) [Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, Psyker (ML2)]

+ Troops (430pts) +

Tactical Squad (215pts) [Flamer, Heavy flamer, Rhino, 9x Tactical Marine]
····Tactical Sergeant [Chainsword, Hand Flamer, Melta Bombs]

Tactical Squad (215pts) [Flamer, Heavy flamer, Rhino, 9x Tactical Marine]
····Tactical Sergeant [Chainsword, Hand Flamer, Melta Bombs]

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (BA Baal Strike Force) (705pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Relics and Detachment-rules [Codex: Blood Angels]

Sanguinary Discipline

+ HQ (105pts) +

Librarian (105pts) [Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, Psyker (ML2), The Veritas Vitae, Warlord]

+ Elites (190pts) +

Furioso Dreadnought (190pts) [Magna-grapple]
····Drop Pod [Deathwind Missile Launcher]
····Power Fists [Frag cannon, Heavy flamer]

+ Troops (140pts) +

Scout Squad (70pts) [Camo Cloaks, 4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle]
····Scout Sergeant [Sniper Rifle]

Scout Squad (70pts) [Camo Cloaks, 4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle]
····Scout Sergeant [Sniper Rifle]

+ Fast Attack (270pts) +

Assault Squad (135pts) [4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun]
····Assault Sergeant [2x Inferno Pistol]
····Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Assault Squad (135pts) [4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun]
····Assault Sergeant [2x Inferno Pistol]
····Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) (425pts) ++

+ Lord of War (425pts) +

Knight Crusader (425pts) [Heavy Stubber, Thermal Cannon]

Take the heavy weapons out of the sternguard. And don't use plasma cannons, ever.

If I take the plasma cannon away and replace them with combi gravs and replace the infernus pistols with melat guns, I can give the warlord libby terminator armour, is this worth it?

BO0MER wrote:
If I take the plasma cannon away and replace them with combi gravs and replace the infernus pistols with melat guns, I can give the warlord libby terminator armour, is this worth it?

Meh. What's your libby's role?

hes cheaper than a captain and could potentially be more usefull since he can cast wither buffs or physic attacks. The terminator Armour is just to make him tougher

X

idk if a sangunairy priest is worth it, the FNP is nice and the +1 WS may help my tac marines to cap objectives but I think the libbys are more adaptable albeit unreliable. As for the warlord? I dont intend him or his vet squad bodyguard to get to close so I think the libby is the better option as even with techmancy he could buff the knight

I am surprised at the lack of DC.

That being said I would drop the BP/CCW from the Tac sergeants and give him a combi weapons of some sort or at least bolters. The extra attack isn't going to be worth anything anyway.

True, I think ill look into the combi-weapons. I tried to get my DC in as an elite choice for the baal strikeforce but I didnt think the 5 men I could afford would be very effective and chose to have a unit to guard my warlord instead. But I could be wrong about how effective they are

Did you go with a CAD because you want to get ObSec?

yeah, I think the standard CAD detachment still has obj sec for the BA? i usually run baal and haven't checked in a while. if not i could always switch the scouts and tacs and make the CAD a normal space marine chapter and will have to push the scouts up behind the tacs but then the scouts would probably do better with a more cc loadout

Yea they still get ObSec from the BRB.

How are the Sternguard getting where they need to go?
What are the Tacticals going to be doing?

I would look into maybe dropping an Assault Squad adding a grav bike squad in their place.

Also Rhinos can only carry 10 models so your Libbys couldn't join the Tactical Squads in the Rhino.

Sanguinary priests are quite nice for buffing vanguards and beat stick captains in biker squads. For everything else, I'm not so sure. I guess they go well in 10X ASM squads.

A primary feature of BA is mobility. Your Imperial Knight fits this scheme perfectly, but you need to make sure all your squads are mobile in some way. Foot scouts are the slowest units I use in my lists.

My sternguard are going to be a rearguard unit, they will either camp an objective or be used to repel any pods or DS units that may land behind my main group, They are also my warlords guard unit. The scouts will either infiltrate and hoefully kill and pin some units or if their is little opportunity i will use them to secure objectives in the rear of my guys providing support with their rifles. The Tac squads in rhinos will be my fast moving obj secured units. And the assaults will land and hopefully take out heavy armour or snipe some HVT's. A bike squad may fit the function for one of the assault squads and i will have to check the libbys/ tac situation

"My sternguard are going to be a rearguard unit,"

You still want them to at least have a Rhino. Mobility is key.

The +1 WS FNP and the +1 init of the priest and the baal strikeforce may help my Tac squads if they have to forcefully evict someone from an objective but I lose obj secured and I still think the libby could prove more useful.


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Giving them a shell would help them survive and react quicker, I could probably take the carapace weapon off the knight and scrape some points elsewhere to get them one

BO0MER wrote:
The +1 WS FNP and the +1 init of the priest and the baal strikeforce may help my Tac squads if they have to forcefully evict someone from an objective but I lose obj secured and I still think the libby could prove more useful.

Tac squads aren't beating anyone even with a priest and Baal strike force. Let's be realistic here.

Get points from dumping infernus pistols. They suck.

What about dropping the Tactical squad size down to accommodate and using them to backfield objective sit?

They really aren't going to be beating anything serious anyway 5 man squad with a heavy bolter just to give them some extra dakka and sit in the back in a Rhino holding an objective.

That give you points for a rhino for the sternguard.

Do you already own all the stuff in this list? Or are you planning on making purchases?

I own the majority of whats on the list, but I am planning some purchases

 TheMostWize wrote:
What about dropping the Tactical squad size down to accommodate and using them to backfield objective sit?

They really aren't going to be beating anything serious anyway 5 man squad with a heavy bolter just to give them some extra dakka and sit in the back in a Rhino holding an objective.

That give you points for a rhino for the sternguard.

Do you already own all the stuff in this list? Or are you planning on making purchases?

Also, as BA, you might want to consider not having backfield objectives. I put as many objectives as I can over by my foe. Or at least, on the way. BA don't do backfield shooting very well at all.

Martel732 wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:
What about dropping the Tactical squad size down to accommodate and using them to backfield objective sit?

They really aren't going to be beating anything serious anyway 5 man squad with a heavy bolter just to give them some extra dakka and sit in the back in a Rhino holding an objective.

That give you points for a rhino for the sternguard.

Do you already own all the stuff in this list? Or are you planning on making purchases?

Also, as BA, you might want to consider not having backfield objectives. I put as many objectives as I can over by my foe.

That could be useful as well considering they do have speed on their side often.

That is food for thought, I like the idea and it would certainly let me use my scouts more effectively. I have made some corrections to my list and its now exactly 1750pts

If you drop an Assault Squad you can get a bike Squad with 2 grav and combi grav and then put a libby on a bike and toss him into the unit.

I still like the idea of only running a single Libby and running a beat stick Captain with Priest on bikes in a bike squad with 2 grav and a combi grav.

Reason behind wanting so many librarians?

I find that 5 man tacs in a Rhino with a heavy flamer are quite useful in an aggressive list. The heavy flamer is a decent approximation of an assault. Sometimes better, if your target has 4+ armor, as melee strikes are not AP4.


Also consider a cheaper Warden IK. I'm definitely getting one for my list, as D-slapping things like Riptides is very useful.


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 TheMostWize wrote:
If you drop an Assault Squad you can get a bike Squad with 2 grav and combi grav and then put a libby on a bike and toss him into the unit.

I still like the idea of only running a single Libby and running a beat stick Captain with Priest on bikes in a bike squad with 2 grav and a combi grav.

Reason behind wanting so many librarians?

Librarians get better the more you have.

I figured as much just didn't know with the other HQ options available to boost squads why only take Librarians.

I still plan on using a Librarian but perhaps I will shelf them until I can run a full conclave or something.

Take the c grav and grav pistol off the Sternguard. Use those points to get a 3rd Drop Pod. This will do a few things for you:

1. Allow you to be more flexible with what to put in the 3rd pod; combat squad tac with hvy flamer, sternguards and libs, etc.

2. Odd pods are magical, so you get 2 down first turn, so you could get both melta squads on a high threat target for example.

How important is objective secured? Who is really taking advantage of I5 on the charge in your list? Consider taking 2 CADs (assuming 2 are allowed).

Otherwise looks good, just keep in mind what units you want your Libs to buff and plan accordingly.

I have so many in the list more as choice, I quite like the unit and the powers they can have also they are fluffy for my particular breed of BA. I had originally planned to run dual captain with my tac squads but figured the librarian was the better choice especially with the new physic powers. It is the melta gun i want primarily on the IK so a cheaper knight is possible. I could add 5 man flamer guys in rhinos but I don't have many rhinos and using only 5 men would mean I lack bodies or would have dismounted squads. I plane to run the squads I have in the rhinos as combat squads so I can disembark half of them if need be


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I like Ghost_Rapturs idea of a third pod,I could try to add a dread pod but I am doubtful I could fit that in, or I could just add a small suicidal tac squad w/ H.Flamer

I personally don't like the crusader as S10 AP 2 is relatively weak CC against other super heavies and GMCs. The D-chainsword takes away all FNP saves and causes around 2 wounds per hit on overage. This ends up translating to so many more wounds cleared vs S10 AP2.

I don't like drop pod sternguard, as that is a good way to get very expensive meqs murdered. My BA make their career off of murdering drop pod contents. Rhino is much more flexible, as sternguard lose nothing by piling out and shooting and are available turn 1 to respond. And you don't have to commit them early like with a drop pod.

Drop pods are much better for melta ASMs, fragnoughts, and heavy flamer tacs that are much more expendable.

Note that after the FAQ, I have a hard time not putting at least one pod fragnought in every list. They murder MCs now in CC as well as fragging infantry of virtually any type right off the table. Nice marker lights bro. Nice heavy weapon team. Nice devs. All dead with remarkable consistency.

One more thing: consider triple technomancy libbies to run with the knight. Generating its hps and giving it extra armor would be epic.

hopefully they wont get near the IK, although it best to prep for the worst I guess. I agree drop pod sternguards is just giving points away. Rhino is probbaly much better especially as a rapid react force. Fragnaught may be an idea.

BO0MER wrote:
hopefully they wont get near the IK, although it best to prep for the worst I guess. I agree drop pod sternguards is just giving points away. Rhino is probbaly much better especially as a rapid react force. Fragnaught may be an idea.

The IK is too expensive to just shoot, imo. You need it in there D-slapping enemies that your other units can't handle. Nothing will last long against the D-weapon, so you'll probably get to shoot MORE with the warden because you can't be tarpitted as easily.