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I penned a few thoughts on some specific Matched Play armies...




It is going to be a while before anyone can claim to be anything like an expert in Matched Play, but that is not going to stop people from trying to put together the most lethal combinations they can find. This has some relevance to me, as I will be attending The Seeds of Hope event at Warhammer World next month – this is the final event of the summer campaign (and free, so I hope to see you there if you can travel to Nottingham!), and will be using the Matched Play rules with 1,000 point armies.

So, my mind has started turning… Just what can you get for 1,000 points.

Note, I am not going to even try for the foul/nasty/’unbeatable’ combos, so if you are looking for a gamebreaker, I am afraid you will have to try another blog. What I am going to do here is just put together a few ideas that may lead to some ‘robust’ armies – those that are strong and can be ‘competitive’ but will not leave you looking like a complete twerp with no friends.

I will also be concentrating on the models I have in my collection and those I am prepared to put together over the next few weeks, so if you are looking for tips with Bretonnians, I am afraid (again) you’ll have to look elsewhere.

At 1,000 points, you need 2 Battleline units with a Leader, and can have up to four Leaders, and two each of Artillery and Behemoths. It should also be noted that the Matched Play Battleplans are primarily objective-based (with the usual caveat that if you table your opponent, you usually won’t have to care about the objectives).


(This article is actually quite long - the full text is at: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/07/20/matched-play-1000-points/)

Interesting to hear your thoughts on Matched Play, Matt!

Your Deathlords one sounds nasty in theory but in practice AI think it would fall flat. Why? Take scenario 1. Take and Hold. You need 5 models to capture an objective. As your entire army is 5 models you would not be able to hold 2 so those skeleton would be a must. And that's a scenario with only 2 objectives.

Now your second one, the skeleton horde! I would be terrified of playing that! (Would look amazing on the battlefield though). I am playing my first Matched Play game tonight but launching in at 2000 points. I find 1000 to be so limiting, but I look forward to seeing other contributions from others.

I agree with Bottle. There's not enough Deathlords, but the regenerating Skellies with Bravery 10 is a daunting prospect indeed. That said, the Seraphon list is probably my favourite, since it's pretty versatile and everything in it has a job. Plus, you know, lizards that wear jewellery are cool. That said, I'd expect shooty paladin Stormcast would give it some trouble.
Still, I would hate to be opposite those skellies.

That lizard list looks interesting, showed it to my friend who plays them to see what he thinks since I've already figured out my 1k sylvaneth list pretty easy and I think they'd probably be on pretty even footing.

I will also be concentrating on the models I have in my collection

So you limited yourself quite badly, oh wait no you didn't

 Bottle wrote:

Your Deathlords one sounds nasty in theory but in practice AI think it would fall flat. Why? Take scenario 1. Take and Hold. You need 5 models to capture an objective. As your entire army is 5 models you would not be able to hold 2 so those skeleton would be a must. And that's a scenario with only 2 objectives.

It is the old Imperial Knight problem - your best strategy may be going for the wipe out.

I should also point out that one reason that list is in there is because I find the idea of taking just five models to an event quite attractive

Not to mention a low count army tends to be a group of nice centerpiece models.

I haven't been all for the points but it seems that in the shop I play in, 1000 seems to be pretty standard. Simply because the games are relatively quick, its easy to have 2v2 or 3v3 when lots of people are waiting, the armies are small enough to be easily portable yet enough points to bring some big nasties. Imo with matched play I think the sweet spot is 1000 points. I think 1000 points would be good for tournaments because the rounds can go by quick (id put them at 90min) and it is pretty easy to accumulate an army of that size based and painted.

I do prefer open play but when you have table and time constraints it doesn't lend so well to allowing more people to be involved. We did start playing mega battles 3v3 open play 8 drops and a 2 drop graveyard of box sized units. Its pretty balanced and works well played over 3 hours. The armies are generally around 1500 points with that number of drops.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

Your Deathlords one sounds nasty in theory but in practice AI think it would fall flat. Why? Take scenario 1. Take and Hold. You need 5 models to capture an objective. As your entire army is 5 models you would not be able to hold 2 so those skeleton would be a must. And that's a scenario with only 2 objectives.

It is the old Imperial Knight problem - your best strategy may be going for the wipe out.

I should also point out that one reason that list is in there is because I find the idea of taking just five models to an event quite attractive

I actually quite like the first list. You win or lose quickly, and the summoning pool for Death Wizards is actually rather deep.

I agree that it's similar to IK armies - if they can counter you or outscore, you're screwed, if they struggle against big monsters, you win. But, unlike the frustration of fighting IKs, the Deathlords are not actually Immune to anything, so it's not as binary.

You'd have to play some games with it and tell us how it goes. AoS is still being figured out, so I think anything can work at this point. In 40k, I would highly suggest against an army like that - the reason you don't see much of things like Deathwing or Grey Knight Paladin Fun Times is because it's too easy to kill elite units unless they're basically invincible or have insane stats for their price (cough*WK*cough). But, AoS doesn't have the sort of crazy ranged obliteration that you see in 40k, nor the same sort of silly Deathstars that roll through anything no matter how much you paid for them. So, small model count, high efficiency models might actually have found a good niche in AoS.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

Your Deathlords one sounds nasty in theory but in practice AI think it would fall flat. Why? Take scenario 1. Take and Hold. You need 5 models to capture an objective. As your entire army is 5 models you would not be able to hold 2 so those skeleton would be a must. And that's a scenario with only 2 objectives.

It is the old Imperial Knight problem - your best strategy may be going for the wipe out.

I should also point out that one reason that list is in there is because I find the idea of taking just five models to an event quite attractive

Oh yes I have been smashed by an army that was just Nagash, Neferata and Arkhan and 6 summoned up Morghast Harbingers before. It can look really cool on the table and allow you to really go to town on the paint jobs.

I don't think the game is much fun in 1000 because of the battleline restrictions... At my store the standard format is 2000.

Hey, so im playing on building a Wandereres army, simply because i love the models.
I´d take:
Waywatcher (General so Sister of the Watch are Battleine) 100
2* Spellsingers 200
2* Sister of the Watch 480
1* Sisters of the Thorns 220


Edit: exactly 1000 points btw ^^
The modell count kinda got me thinking but i just love the idea!

 Haechi wrote:
I don't think the game is much fun in 1000 because of the battleline restrictions... At my store the standard format is 2000.

Yes I would agree. 2000 points is a much better sized game. 1000 point armies are good for big multiplayer games or doubles matches though - but even before matched play the standard army size I saw in PUGs was much closer to 2000 than 1000. 2000 lets you play with most of your toys.

 Haechi wrote:
I don't think the game is much fun in 1000 because of the battleline restrictions... At my store the standard format is 2000.

I haven't noticed people running into that too much. The issues with battle line come in when taking specific factions rather grand alliances. Playing ogres I haven't run into any issues with battle line but its much easier taking beastclaw raiders since everything is battle line. If I didn't I would be pretty much stuck with regular ogres or sabretusks but neither pose an issue at 1000pts.

 namiel wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
I don't think the game is much fun in 1000 because of the battleline restrictions...

I haven't noticed people running into that too much.

Aye, two battleline isn't an issue for me, since I always take a couple core units anyway. It's that third copy of the same unit that feels like a tax for me, but then it unlocks an extra ~900 points of cool stuff, so meh.

While I liked 1000 points, 2000 points felt much more like I had an army, as well as most of the toys I wanted

- Salvage

I agree with Haechi. In a 1000 point game, I don't want to spend almost a third of my points on battle line. I want to spend them on interesting stuff like Celestants on Dracoths, not archers! I mean lets be honest, battle line units rarely have interesting or great statlines, and even the ones that do are quite steep pointswise. By playing 2000 pts, you've got more room to play formations, monsters and heroes.

It's the same playing 40k at low points, you always end up with just your HQ and 2 Troops and then maybe one or two other units (depending on army, of course). That's why Combat Patroll and Kill Team have different setups.

To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

Troops end up something like 60 points for cheap ones (inefficient and small units) to 180/200 for expensive ones. Of course, super elite armies like Everchosen or Deathlords have 240-400 point Battleline, but they're outliers. Depending on your army, they can be nothing or a major chunk of your forces, but the points seem to be alright on the whole (some outliers).

What army are you playing?

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

Sure, there's nothing wrong with smaller games, I find myself playing small games of 40k all the time. However, the difference is that Battleline units in AOS seem to cost more than Troop units for 40k, meaning there's even LESS space to play around with more elite units.

At least for the armies I've been playing around with lists for - Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Stormcast, Ironjaws - the battleline seems more like an actual tax than just a pointless expense - ie you get something out of being forced to spend a certain amount of points on them.

Partly it's just because the way AoS is set up very little is totally immune to enough of something else, so the battleline doesn't seem useless by any stretch - but that might be different for some other factions. I think what would have been nicer is if, say, taking a double sized unit would count as two choices for battleline etc, so for units where you benefit from hording out you could horde out on one and have it count for your restrictions.

 WarbossDakka wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

Sure, there's nothing wrong with smaller games, I find myself playing small games of 40k all the time. However, the difference is that Battleline units in AOS seem to cost more than Troop units for 40k, meaning there's even LESS space to play around with more elite units.

That's the trade off though. I have been playing 1000 points of beastclaw raiders with a thundertusk, hunter, 3 yhetee, and 2 units of 2 mournfang. 9 models and a slow character that is not overly beefy and lacking special rules but it works. It is quite unfair playing the model kill count scenario since I have only 9 models all of which are not easy to kill. I played one against undead at turn 4 I had already amassed 50+ kills losing 3 models. The other day we played a 2v2 using scenario #5 where you have to capture objectives with heros only. Having one hero was brutal but since we played the scenario and scored 3 points then killing their characters, it was turn 4 and we had enough to survive turn 5 so we wouldn't be tabled and they could not score any more points we won a major victory 3-2. If I had been using another army and loaded up on cheaper heros it might have been easier but playing the scenario is more important than army composition.

Longstrider wrote:
At least for the armies I've been playing around with lists for - Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Stormcast, Ironjaws - the battleline seems more like an actual tax than just a pointless expense - ie you get something out of being forced to spend a certain amount of points on them.

Partly it's just because the way AoS is set up very little is totally immune to enough of something else, so the battleline doesn't seem useless by any stretch - but that might be different for some other factions. I think what would have been nicer is if, say, taking a double sized unit would count as two choices for battleline etc, so for units where you benefit from hording out you could horde out on one and have it count for your restrictions.

Alliances also have lots of choices - Order has everything from cheap but bland Freeguild Guard to expensive but powerful Judicators (especially depending on your Allegiance). Even if you are sticking to one army within an alliance, some have multiple options to choose from.

I agree with the second point for sure! Nothing being immune or all-but-invincible really makes the difference and keeps some units from feeling pointless.

Requizen wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

Troops end up something like 60 points for cheap ones (inefficient and small units) to 180/200 for expensive ones. Of course, super elite armies like Everchosen or Deathlords have 240-400 point Battleline, but they're outliers. Depending on your army, they can be nothing or a major chunk of your forces, but the points seem to be alright on the whole (some outliers).

What army are you playing?

At the moment, basically a bit of everything order, mostly Freeguild, Wanderer Elves and a handful of Stormcast right now but expanding to have Sylvaneth and Dispossessed options as well...

Actually, if anyone does have the GHB handy, how many points would I be looking at for:
15 Freeguild Guard
10 Handgunners
Freeguild General on horse
Freeguild BSB
5 Liberators
3 Retributors

That's obviously not the whole force, but it might help me get a feel for game sizes if anyone can give me a ballpark figure.

 Paradigm wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
To be honest, I like the choice that low points forces. I've been playing 40k at 750 points a bit recently and it really does change things up. Troops choices have to pull their weight rather than camping at the back on an objective, you can't bring all the toys so you have to make sacrifices, and a handful of casualties that wouldn't matter at 1500+ are a lot more meaningful. I've not seen the GHB yet so I don't know how AoS points scale in terms of game size, but I'm definitely going to be sticking to smaller games where possible myself!

Troops end up something like 60 points for cheap ones (inefficient and small units) to 180/200 for expensive ones. Of course, super elite armies like Everchosen or Deathlords have 240-400 point Battleline, but they're outliers. Depending on your army, they can be nothing or a major chunk of your forces, but the points seem to be alright on the whole (some outliers).

What army are you playing?

At the moment, basically a bit of everything order, mostly Freeguild, Wanderer Elves and a handful of Stormcast right now but expanding to have Sylvaneth and Dispossessed options as well...

Actually, if anyone does have the GHB handy, how many points would I be looking at for:
15 Freeguild Guard
10 Handgunners
Freeguild General on horse
Freeguild BSB
5 Liberators
3 Retributors

That's obviously not the whole force, but it might help me get a feel for game sizes if anyone can give me a ballpark figure.

Can we post points here? I'll remove if not.

BSB is literally what the yellow text says it is, a Standard Bearer. I do believe it comes under Freeguild General in the GHB.

Standard Bearers aren't their own separate thing in AoS, they're just an upgrade to a unit. Unit upgrades cost 0 points and don't replace other wargear, so just put him in a unit.

Requizen wrote:
Standard Bearers aren't their own separate thing in AoS, they're just an upgrade to a unit. Unit upgrades cost 0 points and don't replace other wargear, so just put him in a unit.

Thus him being a second Freeguild General. This means Para's list would come to 710 points.

Requizen wrote:
Alliances also have lots of choices - Order has everything from cheap but bland Freeguild Guard to expensive but powerful Judicators (especially depending on your Allegiance). Even if you are sticking to one army within an alliance, some have multiple options to choose from.

Yea, those playing at the Alliance level have plenty of cheap options if you're set on seeing your battleline troops as a tax. I've seen Chaos lists including 10 Marauders for IIRC 60 points, alongside the one big battleline unit they're actually interested in. I'm definitely a subfaction player tho, so I typically have just one, maaaaybe two choices that I have to spam 2-3 times ... which is cooler in some subfactions than others.

- Salvage

Cheers for the points, folks, gives me an idea of where I'm at and what I need to add.