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Just wondering about this and wanted to hear some opinions. Please feel free to discuss fluff reasons, gameplay reasons, balance issues or anything else that might be of interest to do with the topic.

Couple of friends think he could do with it, and that eternal warrior should be an upgrade for all chaos lords and as standard on every special character in the chaos codex.

I think Typhus, as it stands, is a bit overcosted for what he brings to the table. Actual, no-baloney Instant Death is pretty uncommon, whereas S10/D isn't that rare.

So, I vote that he should get T6 without a price hike - though not EW. Let the few guys who pay for genuine ID have their day in the sun, on the occasions where it comes up.

As a bonus, he stands up better to any shooting with less than S8 (and obviously far better against S10).

 HANZERtank wrote:
Just wondering about this and wanted to hear some opinions. Please feel free to discuss fluff reasons, gameplay reasons, balance issues or anything else that might be of interest to do with the topic.

Couple of friends think he could do with it, and that eternal warrior should be an upgrade for all chaos lords and as standard on every special character in the chaos codex.

He could do with T6 as the prime Nurgle worshipper, but as for giving EW to him or the other special characters? No. Not unless every special character in every codex gets it. It does suck that the named characters can be killed by a lowly guy with a power fist/klaw, but that's standard.

As for buying it for upgrades, it *could* be done, perhaps for around 35 points, but if it is, it should be for all codexes, yet again.

TL;DR - T6 is fine for Typhus, but no EW.

I'd be alright with Eternal Warrior OR T6. Both is a bit much.

I personally feel that all named unique characters should have Eternal Warrior as standard. If one can survive for long enough in the 40k universe to make a name for yourself with legendary deeds, you clearly are an eternal warrior.

However I don't think that would ever happen, but definitely all chaos codex because they have been kicking about for almost 10,000 years.

I included the option for both just for completeness sake. I've seen some polls that don't include enough options just because they want to prove a point and it gets on my nerves.

 HANZERtank wrote:
I personally feel that all named unique characters should have Eternal Warrior as standard. If one can survive for long enough in the 40k universe to make a name for yourself with legendary deeds, you clearly are an eternal warrior.

However I don't think that would ever happen, but definitely all chaos codex because they have been kicking about for almost 10,000 years.

I included the option for both just for completeness sake. I've seen some polls that don't include enough options just because they want to prove a point and it gets on my nerves.

Well time is weird so it probably isn't 10k years. Some definitely aren't that old.

 HANZERtank wrote:
I personally feel that all named unique characters should have Eternal Warrior as standard. If one can survive for long enough in the 40k universe to make a name for yourself with legendary deeds, you clearly are an eternal warrior.

However I don't think that would ever happen, but definitely all chaos codex because they have been kicking about for almost 10,000 years.

Generally agreed. They should feel more viable than a no name officer, but would need pricing appropriately.

However, your remark on Chaos ones needing it more because they've been in combat for 10,000 years isn't strictly true.
Because of time shifting in the Warp, they might not have felt the full 10,00 years of time pass, so cannot directly equate to experience. They exist out of the standard time stream, so that point can't be made for them.

They have definitely been around longer than anyone else though right? And even then they still survive in the warp, which as I hear isn't the friendliest of neighbourhoods in the galaxy(or where ever it exactly is)

 HANZERtank wrote:
They have definitely been around longer than anyone else though right? And even then they still survive in the warp, which as I hear isn't the friendliest of neighbourhoods in the galaxy(or where ever it exactly is)

Technically, Eldrad, any daemons or the any Necrons would have been around longer. Dark Eldar and regular Eldar could have done the same even in realspace.

Again, the Warp bends time - even if they were in it, and it was hostile, they might come in M31, and when they come out after a quick resupplying, it's M40. They may not have 10,000 years of experience.

 HANZERtank wrote:
They have definitely been around longer than anyone else though right? And even then they still survive in the warp, which as I hear isn't the friendliest of neighbourhoods in the galaxy(or where ever it exactly is)

You can say that about most characters though. None of them live in friendly places.

Varies by individual. Some are amongst the oldest some aren't massively old.

I know that warptime is a funny one so I'll just go with what you say. Don't keep up much on my warp fluff, I just know it's something I don't want near me.

The Phoenix lords all have it don't they, because they have there spirit transferred by the suit or some such. So how does that grant them eternal warrior?

 HANZERtank wrote:
I know that warptime is a funny one so I'll just go with what you say. Don't keep up much on my warp fluff, I just know it's something I don't want near me.

The Phoenix lords all have it don't they, because they have there spirit transferred by the suit or some such. So how does that grant them eternal warrior?

Phoenix Lords are the masters of their form of combat, the very best at it, literally unkillable and the forgers of fate. Chaos Lords lead Space Marines in the name of Chaos.

You can be a supreme master of sword fighting and hiding, but how does that stop an AT shell just completely evaporating you?

 HANZERtank wrote:
You can be a supreme master of sword fighting and hiding, but how does that stop an AT shell just completely evaporating you?

It doesn't. Not having a body and being animated armour does. How does a Chaos Lord get eternal warrior for being old?

I thought Phoenix lords had bodies. The suit just imprints the original spirit onto the new body every time the previous body was destroyed. My eldar knowledge isn't the greatest but thats what I've heard it is.

And I don't think all chaos lords should be eternal, just the named ones because they have been around since Emperor times and even with warp time wierdness they must have been out campaigning for a very long time. Iirc Kharn barely ever goes into the eye of terror, he's too busy murding everything.

 HANZERtank wrote:
I thought Phoenix lords had bodies. The suit just imprints the original spirit onto the new body every time the previous body was destroyed. My eldar knowledge isn't the greatest but thats what I've heard it is.

And I don't think all chaos lords should be eternal, just the named ones because they have been around since Emperor times and even with warp time wierdness they must have been out campaigning for a very long time. Iirc Kharn barely ever goes into the eye of terror, he's too busy murding everything.

And? Their bodies haven't altered to be tougher. Everything one of the chaos champions has, Phoenix Lords also do. Necrons have been around for longer than the Emperor. Eldar like Eldrad were around since the Heresy itself, talking to Fulgrim. He's lived this long in Realspace, and doesn't have EW, IIRC. If you want to say that their age has made them EW worthy, then why not the other unnamed Lords? They've been through exactly the same stuff.

Chaos warriors are also not fighting ALL of the time - they need to plan attacks, wait for new warp rifts to open, gather men to make an attack and gather support and resources. Yes, even Kharn. He still needs to gather more men to fight, settle rivalries with other lords in the Eye, and plan which worlds would be best to slaughter for Khorne.

They haven't been fighting for 10,000 years - Warp time dilation has altered the flow of time according to them. They could have easily experienced it like Calgar has his own military career.

I would not object to them getting EW, as long as all named Characters in all codexes got access to it, at a points premium of 35 points if they didn't already have it. GW could even tie it into the Unique special rule. They should not get it free though.

Definitely all the named characters sjould get it if I had to give eternal warrior out. Don't know about a flat cost of 35 points is appropriate though. Some will definitely get more use out of it than others. Lower toughness would rely more on it but generally just get blasted out by weaker guns through wound stripping. And it's a big increase for lower priced characters as well. Creed and Kell spring to mind, as it's almost half the cost again of Kell.

I think there's a lot more that could have been done to some of the named characters to truly make them unique as some just pale in comparison to what you can make with the rihte relics and wargear.

 HANZERtank wrote:
Definitely all the named characters sjould get it if I had to give eternal warrior out. Don't know about a flat cost of 35 points is appropriate though. Some will definitely get more use out of it than others. Lower toughness would rely more on it but generally just get blasted out by weaker guns through wound stripping. And it's a big increase for lower priced characters as well. Creed and Kell spring to mind, as it's almost half the cost again of Kell.

I think there's a lot more that could have been done to some of the named characters to truly make them unique as some just pale in comparison to what you can make with the rihte relics and wargear.

I'd go 30. If I remember right that's what it cost in the old SW codex when sagas were nice.

I don't think Eternal Warrior is a good fix all as some characters need different fixes. Like Azrael. Who doesn't have AP2 for some reason.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 HANZERtank wrote:
I thought Phoenix lords had bodies. The suit just imprints the original spirit onto the new body every time the previous body was destroyed. My eldar knowledge isn't the greatest but thats what I've heard it is.

And I don't think all chaos lords should be eternal, just the named ones because they have been around since Emperor times and even with warp time wierdness they must have been out campaigning for a very long time. Iirc Kharn barely ever goes into the eye of terror, he's too busy murding everything.

And? Their bodies haven't altered to be tougher. Everything one of the chaos champions has, Phoenix Lords also do. Necrons have been around for longer than the Emperor. Eldar like Eldrad were around since the Heresy itself, talking to Fulgrim. He's lived this long in Realspace, and doesn't have EW, IIRC. If you want to say that their age has made them EW worthy, then why not the other unnamed Lords? They've been through exactly the same stuff.

Chaos warriors are also not fighting ALL of the time - they need to plan attacks, wait for new warp rifts to open, gather men to make an attack and gather support and resources. Yes, even Kharn. He still needs to gather more men to fight, settle rivalries with other lords in the Eye, and plan which worlds would be best to slaughter for Khorne.

They haven't been fighting for 10,000 years - Warp time dilation has altered the flow of time according to them. They could have easily experienced it like Calgar has his own military career.

I would not object to them getting EW, as long as all named Characters in all codexes got access to it, at a points premium of 35 points if they didn't already have it. GW could even tie it into the Unique special rule. They should not get it free though.

Kharn may also never die, because whenever he does, he is resurreceted by Khorne. So another point for the "Eternal Warrior" camp. At least for kharn.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 HANZERtank wrote:
I thought Phoenix lords had bodies. The suit just imprints the original spirit onto the new body every time the previous body was destroyed. My eldar knowledge isn't the greatest but thats what I've heard it is.

And I don't think all chaos lords should be eternal, just the named ones because they have been around since Emperor times and even with warp time wierdness they must have been out campaigning for a very long time. Iirc Kharn barely ever goes into the eye of terror, he's too busy murding everything.

And? Their bodies haven't altered to be tougher. Everything one of the chaos champions has, Phoenix Lords also do. Necrons have been around for longer than the Emperor. Eldar like Eldrad were around since the Heresy itself, talking to Fulgrim. He's lived this long in Realspace, and doesn't have EW, IIRC. If you want to say that their age has made them EW worthy, then why not the other unnamed Lords? They've been through exactly the same stuff.

Chaos warriors are also not fighting ALL of the time - they need to plan attacks, wait for new warp rifts to open, gather men to make an attack and gather support and resources. Yes, even Kharn. He still needs to gather more men to fight, settle rivalries with other lords in the Eye, and plan which worlds would be best to slaughter for Khorne.

They haven't been fighting for 10,000 years - Warp time dilation has altered the flow of time according to them. They could have easily experienced it like Calgar has his own military career.

I would not object to them getting EW, as long as all named Characters in all codexes got access to it, at a points premium of 35 points if they didn't already have it. GW could even tie it into the Unique special rule. They should not get it free though.

Kharn may also never die, because whenever he does, he is resurreceted by Khorne. So another point for the "Eternal Warrior" camp. At least for kharn.

Is that an instant return or does time pass?

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 HANZERtank wrote:
I thought Phoenix lords had bodies. The suit just imprints the original spirit onto the new body every time the previous body was destroyed. My eldar knowledge isn't the greatest but thats what I've heard it is.

And I don't think all chaos lords should be eternal, just the named ones because they have been around since Emperor times and even with warp time wierdness they must have been out campaigning for a very long time. Iirc Kharn barely ever goes into the eye of terror, he's too busy murding everything.

And? Their bodies haven't altered to be tougher. Everything one of the chaos champions has, Phoenix Lords also do. Necrons have been around for longer than the Emperor. Eldar like Eldrad were around since the Heresy itself, talking to Fulgrim. He's lived this long in Realspace, and doesn't have EW, IIRC. If you want to say that their age has made them EW worthy, then why not the other unnamed Lords? They've been through exactly the same stuff.

Chaos warriors are also not fighting ALL of the time - they need to plan attacks, wait for new warp rifts to open, gather men to make an attack and gather support and resources. Yes, even Kharn. He still needs to gather more men to fight, settle rivalries with other lords in the Eye, and plan which worlds would be best to slaughter for Khorne.

They haven't been fighting for 10,000 years - Warp time dilation has altered the flow of time according to them. They could have easily experienced it like Calgar has his own military career.

I would not object to them getting EW, as long as all named Characters in all codexes got access to it, at a points premium of 35 points if they didn't already have it. GW could even tie it into the Unique special rule. They should not get it free though.

Kharn may also never die, because whenever he does, he is resurreceted by Khorne. So another point for the "Eternal Warrior" camp. At least for kharn.

If you use resurrection logic, same can apply for:
Lucius the Eternal
Any Daemon
Any Eldar Phoenix Lord
Any Dark Eldar (because of their cloning tech)
Any Necron
Any Tyranid

However, the issue with resurrection in Kharn's case is that Khorne doesn't bring him back MID BATTLE. He might resurrect him AFTER the battle, but after the battle is irrelevant here.

Kharn CAN die. He is just resurrected afterwards, which still classes him as "dying". That doesn't make him less susceptible to losing his entire upper torso to a lascannon than, say, Captain Sicarius. Kharn dies, but after the battle, Khorne brings him back. Sicarius is crippled, but his plot armour (same as Kharn's) keeps him alive long enough to be rescued later and healed back up.

It still baffles me how most CSM characters don't have eternal warrior, as two of them can literally come back from the dead (Kharn and Lucius), one suffered a life-threatening injury, lived and is more machine than man (Huron) and the last three are either a crazy mad doctor, a sorceror who is literally looking to the answer to the universe, and a super-zombie that is little more than an animate suit of armor possessed by insects.

All of which (but one) have lived since (and through) the Horus Heresy and still going strong. Yet somehow a commissar born in this millenium that got krumped by Orks has it and they don't?

On that matter, same goes for Daemons. Literal Eternal Warriors don't have Eternal Warriors rule either. This would go a long way to solve a lot of problems with Daemon princes (debatable on Greater Daemons though since they are actually pretty tough) and the multi-wound daemons.

T6 sounds interesting and was my original plan to fix Typhus.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

On that matter, same goes for Daemons. Literal Eternal Warriors don't have Eternal Warriors rule either. This would go a long way to solve a lot of problems with Daemon princes (debatable on Greater Daemons though since they are actually pretty tough) and the multi-wound daemons.

Probably because Grey Knights having force on every weapon would suddenly become null against Chaos Daemons . Still doesn't make sense regardless.

Warp Rider wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

On that matter, same goes for Daemons. Literal Eternal Warriors don't have Eternal Warriors rule either. This would go a long way to solve a lot of problems with Daemon princes (debatable on Greater Daemons though since they are actually pretty tough) and the multi-wound daemons.

Probably because Grey Knights having force on every weapon would suddenly become null against Chaos Daemons . Still doesn't make sense regardless.

That's how it was in 5th.

Of course, in 5th you couldn't even deploy against GK as daemons, but still...

It's not like Nemesis Force Weapons would become useless against Daemons though. They still have the Daemonbane rule (which requires Force to be used).

T5 is fine.
EW is BS.

He's just a pile of goo in Terminator armour. He's already got FnP, which makes sense from a fluff standpoint, meaning he's tougher than T5 already.

Consider that a lasgun hit has a 0.028 chance of wounding him, before FnP.

EW is nothing more than a design cheat- allowing a multiwound creature to defeat the very countermeasures that exist for multiwound creatures(high strength/force weapons).

There was a point in the game somewhere between 4th and 5th where most targets you'd want to ID (TMC, Daemon princes etc) had EW, making force weapons pointless (if you need to kill T4 captains, just being a power fist)

 =Angel= wrote:
T5 is fine.
EW is BS.

He's just a pile of goo in Terminator armour. He's already got FnP, which makes sense from a fluff standpoint, meaning he's tougher than T5 already.

Consider that a lasgun hit has a 0.028 chance of wounding him, before FnP.

EW is nothing more than a design cheat- allowing a multiwound creature to defeat the very countermeasures that exist for multiwound creatures(high strength/force weapons).

There was a point in the game somewhere between 4th and 5th where most targets you'd want to ID (TMC, Daemon princes etc) had EW, making force weapons pointless (if you need to kill T4 captains, just being a power fist)

EW would be fair on him though for his ridiculously expensive price tag though.

I'd rather just T6, but don't pretend that EW doesn't fix a lot of issues on different characters.

Khârn should have some variation on Yarrick's rule where he can get back up with a single wound or something. Isn't there some AOS character who can come back if enough wounds are caused near him?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
T5 is fine.
EW is BS.

He's just a pile of goo in Terminator armour. He's already got FnP, which makes sense from a fluff standpoint, meaning he's tougher than T5 already.

Consider that a lasgun hit has a 0.028 chance of wounding him, before FnP.

EW is nothing more than a design cheat- allowing a multiwound creature to defeat the very countermeasures that exist for multiwound creatures(high strength/force weapons).

There was a point in the game somewhere between 4th and 5th where most targets you'd want to ID (TMC, Daemon princes etc) had EW, making force weapons pointless (if you need to kill T4 captains, just being a power fist)

EW would be fair on him though for his ridiculously expensive price tag though.

I'd rather just T6, but don't pretend that EW doesn't fix a lot of issues on different characters.

Ahriman being a FMC would be fair given his ridiculously expensive price tag- that doesn't mean it makes any sense.
Typhus being T6 would make him as tough as a greater Daemon, but in terminator armour with FnP and possibly riding a transport.
I don't see that any character being instant killed by S10 demolisher cannons or force weapons is an issue that needs fixing.

Just for the record, Mephiston had S and T6, 5 wounds and Initiative and WS 7 during 5th edition and only recently got dialed back to *just* S and T5. And unlike Typhus all I can find about how he got such a ridiculous profile was cuz he had willpower or something (Cassius I can at least understand since he's 80% metal now).