The Stormsword

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**ExFideFortis**

36" Str 10, AP1, Ignores Cover, Primary Weapon, Apocalyptic Blast. Is this not the best Baneblade variant for a game on a regular 6x4 board ? I ask because I can't find much discussion on it anywhere and I'm wondering why. I've just recently started using my newly minted Baneblade (magnetized to use all the variants) and so far I've used the Baneblade and Shadowsword in two games. In contrast to what I had read on various forums, about how underwhelming Baneblades are, the former has done quite well, racking up quite the kill count in both the games I've used it as well as absorbing a huge amount of firepower and surviving (though I haven't fought any ranged D weapons with it yet). However, Str 9 is just one point away from Str 10, which is infinitely better with all the T5 multi-wound TWC and so forth I play against. The Shadowsword is neat but seems underwhelming for the points it costs. Sure it can take out a high priority unit (with a 6 on the D table) but the Baneblade will take out the entire army if left unchecked. The Shadowsword seems like the best of both worlds; same size blast as the Baneblade with a weapon Str that isn't far off Str D when shooting at most targets. And it ignores cover! Does anyone have experience with this variant? Why don't I see more discussion on this tank?

**CrownAxe**

485 pts is a lot to pay for a single gun. And in the 7.5 edition meta baneblade chassis aren't hard to kill at all. Especially since blasts are weak against MC and vehicles because they can only ever do a single hit to them (which is why StrD is so much better then just Str10 because it does multiple wounds/HP for a single hit).

**Drasius**

The blasts are neutered by invis for anyone who doesn't play ITC, it can't kill MC's and while it ignores cover, most scary melee units have a strong invulnerable save (like TWC, wraiths etc) and as CownAxe said, killing a single superheavy with 9 hull points isn't hard in a meta that's built around killing free transports, imperial knights and multiple wraithknights.

At least the shadowsword works 1/6th of the time, deleting anything it hits.

**Gibblets**

As someone who has used half of the Baneblade variants they are definitely over costed for what they do. Having said that, the Stormsword has an excellent cannon, hell it fires a Deathstrike missile every turn. It has done lots of work for me in the past. If I have the points I'll upgrade it to a Hell Hammer which is far and away the best variant available (which is reflected in it's insane price) because it has 2 Str 10 blasts which helps with the multi Wound/Hull Point weakness.

Then there's the Shadow Sword, it's mostly garbage now with the changes to the D table. Unless you're having a Super Heavy duel don't use it. I play with with lots of terrain so cover saves ruin this tank most of the turns in a game. On average you'll get a 6 once in a game while the rest of the time it will be neutered by cover saves.

For me the funnest is the Stormlord with a bunch of heavy weapons guys inside and Phase Form cast on it, blistering fire power. Really there's probably 5-6 different ways to run a Stormlord that's fun and effective.

**ExFideFortis**

Gibblets wrote:
As someone who has used half of the Baneblade variants they are definitely over costed for what they do. Having said that, the Stormsword has an excellent cannon, hell it fires a Deathstrike missile every turn. It has done lots of work for me in the past. If I have the points I'll upgrade it to a Hell Hammer which is far and away the best variant available (which is reflected in it's insane price) because it has 2 Str 10 blasts which helps with the multi Wound/Hull Point weakness.

Then there's the Shadow Sword, it's mostly garbage now with the changes to the D table. Unless you're having a Super Heavy duel don't use it. I play with with lots of terrain so cover saves ruin this tank most of the turns in a game. On average you'll get a 6 once in a game while the rest of the time it will be neutered by cover saves.

For me the funnest is the Stormlord with a bunch of heavy weapons guys inside and Phase Form cast on it, blistering fire power. Really there's probably 5-6 different ways to run a Stormlord that's fun and effective.

Thanks, I haven't tried the Hellhammer yet but it does look amazing, in your experience the demolisher cannon and turret are worth the smaller blast? I agree with you all above too, they are a big points sink, but the few games I've played with any of the variants have been better than my games without them (I use pure guard/ABG without any further allies). They bring a lot to the table that Guard doesn't have otherwise, like truly mobile firepower and a weapons platform that can't be disabled until it dies, independent targeting and Thunderblitz. I'd rather have a BB variant than 3 Russes at this point. Then again, my meta doesn't feature any Eldar or ranged D weapons beyond Stormsurges, so that is probably why I've been having success with it.

**chrispy1991**

I'm just going to quote what I've stated and mathhammered in a previous threat about this very comparison.

IMO the Stormsword is vastly superior to the Baneblade and Hellhammer for 2 reasons. Point cost, and ignores cover. 7th is all about ignoring as many saves as you can. The Stormsword is also 485 points base, vs 525 for the Baneblade and 540 for the Hellhammer. With the points you save, you could buy those oh so shmexy side sponsons you want. Every single battle I have used the Stormsword I was pleased with its performance. It gives the middle finger to literally everything but flyers and invul saves.

To the argument that you get a demolisher cannon for 55 points by taking the Hellhammer this goes over why you aren't just paying 55 points for the demolisher cannon:

Demolisher cannon blast area covers about 19.6 square inches
Hellhammer cannon blast area covers about 38.5 square inches
Stormsword cannon blast area covers about 78.5 square inches

You are not paying 55 more points for a demolisher cannon. You are paying 55 points, and about 40 square inches of STR10 AP1 ignores cover cannon, to get a demolisher cannon and a 10pt autocannon.

While having 2 cannons means you have the possibility of dealing 2 wounds instead of 1 to the same target, the fact that both cannons are much less accurate (because they cover less surface area, even combined), and that one of them doesn't ignore cover, is AP2, and only has 24 inch range, makes it seem like a poor trade off to me. The advantage of having a turret is not a particularly significant one on a super heavy with a good range either IMO.

I would just take the extra lascannon/TW HB sponsons with the points you save, and keep the 78.5 square inch super doom cannon that you have to literally roll a 9 or higher on the deviation to miss the target with (and that's assuming the target is a small infantry base, vehicles are almost impossible to miss). You could alternatively put those 55 points elsewhere in the army to keep your SH from becoming a point sink. As one of the previous posters pointed out, all it takes is a melta deepstrike, and the tank reliably goes 'splody in 1 turn.

As far as the Shadowsword goes, I'm not particularly fond of it because it's a 1 shot cannon that only covers 19.5 square inches, and even IF it hits, you have to roll a 6 on the D table to ignore cover and invul.

**CKO**

I thought ITC didn't allow apocalyptic blast weapons that are str 10 ap 2 with ignore cover!

Am I wrong again?

**pumaman1**

CKO wrote:
I thought ITC didn't allow apocalyptic blast weapons that are str 10 ap 2 with ignore cover!

Am I wrong again?

not everyone plays ITC. The ITC may do its best to try and balance the game out by ignoring rules/adding rules etc.. but non-itc, that weapon is still in play

**ExFideFortis**

When I'm up against Canoptek Harvests, Decurions, Ghost Arcs, Stormsurges and TWC biker stars as IG, I feel little remorse unleashing such weapons. I remember unleashing 1850 points of firepower, with plenty of str 10 AP2 in the form of Manticores, Demolishers and Medusa guns, into a Necron Force and being unable to penetrate the shields on even a single Ghost Arc due to jinking. Never again!

I think the point cost of the Stormsword is what is really going to make me take it over the Hellhammer, as well as that math posted above. Not to mention the fact that the ABG list doesn't seem to have access to a Hellhammer anyway.

Does anyone know if this is the case? The ABG only has access to 3 Baneblade variants in battlescribe and the IA book doesn't list any Lords of War for the army. Is this a result of a FAQ? Seems odd they could only use a few of the variants...

**whembly**

Drasius wrote:
The blasts are neutered by invis for anyone who doesn't play ITC, it can't kill MC's and while it ignores cover, most scary melee units have a strong invulnerable save (like TWC, wraiths etc) and as CownAxe said, killing a single superheavy with 9 hull points isn't hard in a meta that's built around killing free transports, imperial knights and multiple wraithknights.

At least the shadowsword works 1/6th of the time, deleting anything it hits.

If you can play the Stormsword...

Apoc blast is bitch'n. Even if you can't use it to target an invis unit... couldn't you target closer non-invis unit, and let the apoc blast cover the invis unit?

**malamis**

I have the triumverate of ShadowSword, Stormsword and Hellhammer together, but the one that's seen the most use outside apoc is the Stormsword.

Combined with a Culexus and suddenly my guard tank line doesn't have to worry about Tiggie Smalls and his drop pod goons.

**whembly**

Heh... Imma steal that.

"Tiggie Smalls and his drop pod goons."

**Backspacehacker**

a much cheaper version of this would be 3 vindicators that fire the line breaker shot, yes the range is shorter but there are few times you actually can go a full 72" on a board.

Its still a apoc blast, S10, AP2 ignores cover. When you blasting hordes, AP 2 and 1 wont make much difference.

**malamis**

Stormsword range is 36", and the big difference is that Vindicators will actually feel a Krak missile, or more to the point, Scatter Lasers to the side.

**commander dante**

Cant the Stormsword also Transport Some Men?

**CrownAxe**

commander dante wrote:
Cant the Stormsword also Transport Some Men?

Thats the Stormlord, different vehicle

**ExFideFortis**

Backspacehacker wrote:
a much cheaper version of this would be 3 vindicators that fire the line breaker shot, yes the range is shorter but there are few times you actually can go a full 72" on a board.

Its still a apoc blast, S10, AP2 ignores cover. When you blasting hordes, AP 2 and 1 wont make much difference.

AP1 is pretty great though, erasing open topped vehicles on a 4+ is nice, and a 5+ sure beats a 6+ for the rest of them. As well as the other benefits mentioned above. I am also just looking at BB variants here.

**slowclinic**

I've been battling which variant to go for since buying the model back around Christmas. It's still in the box, untouched. Stormsword looks like the way to go for overall effectiveness. I've got enough melta in the army already to keep me comfortable, and will be rolling out beast hunter shells pretty soon.

Thanks for helping make this decision!

What I have noticed by quickly referencing the Mont'Ka book is that the Stormsword initially comes with TL heavy flamers on it's sponsons as opposed to TL heavy bolters like the rest of the variants. Free to swap out, so it doesn't make much of a difference, but is there any tactical advantage to taking the TL heavy flamers over the bolters?

**ExFideFortis**

I think heavy flamers are a bad idea on a BB; very limited arc of fire and if something is that close to you there is nothing to stop you from thunderblitzing them or moving away and unloading on them (which you probably want to do so you can use the main weapon). Heavy Bolters are the way to go.

Also, have fun with those Beast Hunter shells! That Vanquisher Command Tank is probably the best Leman Russ in our arsenal. They can often earn their points back in a single shot

**slowclinic**

ExFideFortis wrote:
I think heavy flamers are a bad idea on a BB; very limited arc of fire and if something is that close to you there is nothing to stop you from thunderblitzing them or moving away and unloading on them (which you probably want to do so you can use the main weapon). Heavy Bolters are the way to go.

Also, have fun with those Beast Hunter shells! That Vanquisher Command Tank is probably the best Leman Russ in our arsenal. They can often earn their points back in a single shot

I was discussing builds in the local GW today. One of the guys was building up a stock BB for his traitor guard (they can only take that one). We all agreed the flamers seemed pretty pointless, but it was just strange to see them listed as the stock sponson choice on the Stormsword.

With regards to the Beast Hunter shells, they'd be with my secondary Tank Commander in a Vanq with a matching buddy. One of the players got a little salty over the idea of playing against them, but he's fine with his Tau gun lines of course. They're not slightly OP at all

**ExFideFortis**

Well I had a disappointing experience with my Stormsword, having it take out only 2 Razorbacks before it died. It was vs an Ironwolves formation and a Knight Lancer, so it really didn't have any good targets to shoot at, as he spaced out his Razorbacks properly so that I could only hit one each turn with the blast. Granted, it destroyed everything in touched and it was definitely the wrong variant for the list I was facing, but of course I didn't know what I would be fighting. I think the additional demolisher cannon for the second shot would have been more valuable against that particular list.