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2016/08/09 17:31:53
Subject: Which is better......
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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I have a question for the group: Using mathhammer, what is the better choice of weapon, a Heavy flamer S 5 AP 4 or a chemical flamer S 4 AP 5 with shred and gets hot special rules?
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2016/08/09 18:18:57
Subject: Which is better......
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I don't even know what army this is for, but the answer will always be the standard Heavy flamer. Shred definitely evens out the difference in str (and actually str4 shred will cause more wounds on average than str5) but the "Gets Hot" kills it entirely. Flamers and Blasts with gets hot don't get to fire 1 in 6 times. That means at least 1 turn per game the template might not do anything, which often happens when you really need it.
Plus, Str5 has an occasional bonus of being useful against light vehicles. And more units depend on a 4+ armour that the Heavy Flamer would ignore.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/09 18:22:10
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4016/08/09 18:33:54
Subject: Re:Which is better......
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Been Around the Block
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I created a google doc spreadsheet that confirms what Galef's saying.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B2NRBxigMyY1jeUEihU3MiWzSUrsir0w8s4aMvbqcgI/edit?usp=sharing
Against pretty much everything the heavy flamer is better. The only scenario I could get the chemical flamer to be better at was a T7 5+ target.
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2016/08/09 19:03:28
Subject: Re:Which is better......
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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exaltedrage05 wrote:I
The only scenario I could get the chemical flamer to be better at was a T7 5+ target.
Which doesn't exist to my knowledge. At first I thought Artillery fit the bill, but even if the crew only have a 5+/6+ save, the gun model will have a 3+. And if you have managed to get close enough to flame Artillery, just charge them.
#Heavyflameralldayeveryday
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2016/08/09 20:31:20
Subject: Re:Which is better......
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Thanks for the replies guys. This is for a chaos renegade army using the Purge formation. Is it safe to say that upgrading to a chemical flamer from a standard infantry flamer is a no-brainer though?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 19:09:55
It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2016/08/09 19:19:40
Subject: Re:Which is better......
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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 sub-zero wrote:Thanks for the replies guys. This is for a chaos renegade army using the Purge formation. Is it safe to say that upgrading to a chemical flamer from a standard infantry flamer is a no-brainer though?
If it's a free upgrade, sure. If you pay 5pts, maybe, if more than 5, no.
5pts is a "maybe" because Gets Hot can really ruin your day, especially on models who don't; have a good save. Roll a 1 to hit, now your dude not only can't shoot, but will probably fail his save and die. If your dude is expendable, go for it, Shred makes flamers pretty brutal
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2016/08/09 20:16:54
Subject: Re:Which is better......
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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 Galef wrote: sub-zero wrote:Thanks for the replies guys. This is for a chaos renegade army using the Purge formation. Is it safe to say that upgrading to a chemical flamer from a standard infantry flamer is a no-brainer though?
If it's a free upgrade, sure. If you pay 5pts, maybe, if more than 5, no.
5pts is a "maybe" because Gets Hot can really ruin your day, especially on models who don't; have a good save. Roll a 1 to hit, now your dude not only can't shoot, but will probably fail his save and die. If your dude is expendable, go for it, Shred makes flamers pretty brutal
Yea, the Purge formation lets you upgrade to a chemical flamer for free.
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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