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What's the thought on blackshields?

From what I understand the optimal loadout would be shield and hammer, but would it get his points back?

Or are his rules easily overlooked for the RoC factor that he brings in?

I've started building my vanguard vets, and the loadout I have so far for the five man squad is two guys with HTH and two guys with TH and SS (to help protect the two HTH guys...), and I'm not sure what my fifth guy should be....

I'm thinking either:

a- Dual pIstols, to soften the targets a bit, grav and plasma comes to mind...
b- Another shield, with either a claw, a hammer, or a pistol...
c- Something else that will be more useful...

Hmm... call me stupid, but I don't get how to use a killteam - which are supposed to stay a coherent unit - where there are footsloggers, bikes and jump infantry... My initial analysis and thoughts is that it can be used to extend the reach of a squad as it changes direction of faces different foes, since the faster troops can move from the back to the front, for instance...

What is it that I'm not getting?

I'm quite tempted to make my army a CAD, where the vanguards and the bikes are free to roam the table without worrying and foot traffic, and where the footies can be delivered by drop pod as nature intended...

Thoughts on drop pods for a deathwatch force?

They can be taken as dedicated transports for the veterans, and can carry any of the other footslogging infantry, and even the dreadnoughts, but not the vanguards and the bikes... (if my understanding of transport rules is correct...)

In the context of a kill team that has ten models, if one of them is a terminator, then a drop pod deployement for that killteam is out of the question, since there is no room in the pod for the whole killteam to be deployed together, right?

Or is there somewhere a rule that says that a squad can be deployed in several transports?

I have a feeling that at least my venerable dreadnought will be drop-podded in, but then I would need two more pods to fill to get to an 'optimal' three pods... If mixed kill teams can't fit in them, then are they simply worthless in a decurion-style force of killteams?

Am I missing something?

Ah, right, you mean get the pod as dedicated transports for each of the veteran squads, even those that are part of killteams that cannot embark in a pod, and if they are not the squad in the pod during the pod assault, is that it?

Oh, that is sneaky... I like it...

Basically I pay a 35 point tax to buy an extra empty pod that never needs to come in (unless I want to put a beacon and missile launcher in it....) so that the two drop pods that have something in it come together on the first turn...

 Selym wrote:
Can't you buy one as FA?

Yes, but then I would have get out of the Black Spear Strike Force decurion chart, wouldn't I?

So far on my list I have three killteams, so by default three veterans squad who can each take a drop pod as dedicated transport...

Hold on, there is something I'm missing, here... I thought that squads couldn't begin the game in a transport that was the dedicated transport purchased for another squad...
(dammit, now I'm getting confused....)

Ok, let's say my list is this:

Captain
Killteam 1 with 5 vets, a chaplain, a librarian and a terminator, taking a drop pod 1 as DT
Killteam 2 with 5 vets, 3 vanguards and 2 terminators, taking a drop pod 2 as DT
Killteam 3 with 5 vets, 4 vanguard and a bike.
Venerable dreadnought, taking a drop pod 3 as DT.

On the first turn I deploy drop pods 1 (with killteam 1) and 3 (with the dread), and drop pod 2 is never used, since the squad doesn't fit in it...

Finished putting together the models for my killteams, so far I have, for a 1500 point list (I have a few more built, enough for an extra 250 points...):

Black Spear Formation

Captain Artemis, 145 pts
Jensus (Librarian L2), 95 pts

Killteam 1
Cassius (Chaplain) 95 pts
1 Terminator Librarian (L2) 115 pts
5 veterans (Sarge with SS and Xeno blade, 1 hellfire HB, 1 Blackshield with claws, 1 shotgun, 1 TH + SS) 250 pts
3 Vanguard veterans (HTH, TH + SS, Claws (Edryc)) 145 pts

Killteam 2
Terminator (Assault Cannon + Meltafist) 70 pts
Garran (Heavy Flamer + Meltafist) 60 pts
5 Veterans (2 Frag cannon, Powerfist, Shotgun, Blackshield TH +SS) 230 pts
3 Vanguard Veterans (HTH, TH+SS, Hand flamer (Antor)) 145 pts.

Venerable Dreadnought (Las Cannon, Flamer) 150 pts.

For a total of 1500 points, and 23 models!!
Am I going overboard with the equipment? Any thoughts on what I'm doing horribly wrong?

tetrisphreak wrote:

Ok, first off in Kill Team 1 a chaplain isn't a choice for any of the kill teams (I recommend they all be Aquila but that's personal preference), but you do have a 3rd command slot available for the chaplain so that's really just a formatting issue, not an illegal list.
Secondly - on upgrades - the venerable upgrade for your dreadnought could be left off. Your lascannon is twin linked so bs5 is less necessary, and while you can force a re-roll on penetrating hits you're still losing hull points when taking damage so overall save the 25 pts there. If you're going to pay the points for the Xeno Blade it's more useful on a character with more attacks so a captain would be a better place to spend the same 25 points and get 2x the attacks. Other than nitpicky stuff though, deathwatch are natively going to be a low model count army. You have to make sure that you hit first and hit hard with your units or they could take some serious losses from return fire and then you'll be gutted.

You can take the list you have and certainly play some games with it - it should be fun for you. That's the best way to figure out what you need to add/delete/change in your army, really.

tetrisphreak wrote:I just realized kill team 1 might be a strategium command. If so my apologies.

Thanks for the feedback.
My guy with the Xenophase is modeled with a sanguinary guard chestplate and helmet, so he's captain-y enough... ( ) But with an extra captain I can't afford all those vanguards, so I'll take to extra "vanilla" vets on killteam 2...
I made the list only with my excel sheet of point values, not with the codex in hand, so the chaplain mistake was all mine, since I wanted to make two aquila kill teams. Now, that being said, the benefit of having it be a strategium command team is quite relevant, since the chaplain gives them furious charge, so that is what I'll do... The other one I'll also turn into a strategium, using one of the Librarian as leader, for the Deny the witch bonus...

So with that changed around, I get:

Black Spear Formation

Captain Artemis, 145 pts
Captain with Xenophase and shield, 135 pts

Killteam 1 (Strategium, Chap+aquila)
Cassius (Chaplain) 95 pts
Terminator (Assault Cannon + Meltafist) 70 pts
Garran (Heavy Flamer + Meltafist) 60 pts
5 veterans (HTH, 1 hellfire HB, 1 Blackshield with claws, 1 shotgun, 1 TH + SS) 240 pts
3 Vanguard veterans (HTH, TH + SS, Claws (Edryc)) 145 pts

Killteam 2 (Strategium, Lib+aquila)
Jensus (Librarian (L2)) 95 pts
1 Terminator Librarian (L2) 115 pts
7 Veterans (2 Frag cannon, Powerfist, Shotgun, Blackshield TH +SS) 274 pts

Dreadnought (Las Cannon, Flamer) 125 pts.

For a total of 1499 points, and 23 models!!

I agree, the overkill models as a squad feel very skizophrenic, that's why I'm peppering them between the kill teams...

The concept of three killteams, one "assaulty", one "shooty", and one "general", does feel like the right way to do it... but it gets expensive fast... I can easily see that it would fill up a 1850 list with only those...

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Even the deathwatch need a few bullet catchers though.

That's why there are so many storm shields on my guys... although I do get your point, 3+ invul do fail 33% of the time...

Our cheapest bullet catchers are 22 points, though, that is still quite expensive to catch a bullet... I'd rather not give enough time to the enemy to send bullets my way...

 SonsofVulkan wrote:


Not enough model count, and foot slogging marines will get ripped apart fast.

Well, the formation rules gives everything deep strike, so I'm not sure how much footslogging there will be...
What do you suggest?

Landraiders? Drop Pods?