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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 15:45:25
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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All that needs to be done with 40k setting progression is to ensure that no faction gets wiped out and no one sits there out of luck with a defunct army. This can be done by shifting the narrative to the Eldar and their End-times prophesies. - Which have been recently been released on FB.
WARNING - WALL OF TEXT - How i think it could be logically played out.
Eldrad and Ceogorach team up to bring about the end times so that Ynnead can come to life. All the stories need to end at a great battle for Terra.
Primarch Demons are now now leading the various chaos legions in battle.
The Loyalist Primarchs Return/ Awaken / Heal
Corax returns after finding out what's happened
Leman Russ returns after Magnus returns to attack Fenris
Eldrad cuts a deal with Vect and the Harliquins and Jaghatai Khan is allowed to leave the webway
Vulkan is indeed a perpetual and has coalesced back into his normal form
Roboute Guilliman healed
Sanguinus - Alive in spirit as the Sanguinor
Lion El'Jonson -
Dorn - is the marine taken by Trazyn and then healed and released in secret after Anrakyr is proclaimed the new Silent King. Dorn cannot explain where he's been but remembers dying when storming the bridge.
Nid hivefleets merge into 1 super fleet controlled primarily by the Leviathan hive mind. We also find out that it's true, the nids are running from something. The super hive fleet is actually all that remains of the nids species
Eldar and Necrons bury the hatchet to stop chaos. They seek out the Tau and we discover that the Tau we're created BY THE ELDAR. They were originally intended as the new living hosts for the necrontyr to move their consciousness into and thus an olive branch to end hostilities. The necrons however when into hibernation after the war and the Eldar never created the Tau. Ceogorach though, stole the genetic plans and technology to seed a planet and created the Tau millennia afterward. With Aun'va dead the Tau unite under Farsight and Shadowsun and are promissed a place in the reborn galaxy along side the Eldar.
The necrons and Eldar of course don't trust each other but Anrakyr and Orikan are swayed by the Eldar and Tau when they unveil plans to awaken all the tomb world at once, fix the memory loss of the necrons and support the claim of Anrakyr as the new Silent King, and unification of all the dynasties. Because advanced technology - this happens in 6 months.
The orks have all come to the Octarius Sector and Ghazkul is now leader of the unified ork race. The pyskic repercussions are huge causing tears in real space. Demonic incursions are everywhere. Mork and Gork have risen to near equal strength of the chaos gods. They are tricked to assaulting Terra by Ceogorach. The Ork Pyskic shockwave also gets the attention of the Hive Fleet who also divert course to Terra.
The Warp rifts cause mass evacuations of the IOM to Segmentum Solar. The Warp storms and tears in the fabric of reality are opening everywhere. The this serves to strengthen the Chaos gods. The 13th Crusade has arrived at Segmentum Solar. It is total war in the Segmentum Solar as Chaos, Demons, Nids, Orks and the IOM all fight it out.
We find out that Alpha legion did succumb to Chaos and that it was actually Alphairus that was killed by Girlyman. Omegon is real and he did not succumb to Chaos but infiltrated the Dark Angels. Omegon is actaully Cypher. The sword he carries is Lion's sword and he wants to present it to the emperor and ask for not only the unforgiven but also Alpha legions forgiveness. He then will await the emperors command.
The billions of necron legions arrive in the Segmentum Solar and are aiding the IOM along with Eldar and Tau.
Vect and Malys war that purposely allowed demons into Commorah has backfired. Dark Eldar have fled the webway. Vect has won the game but the dark eldar are depleted and Commorah is gone. Vect has no choice, and after confronting Eldrad, he begins to collapse the webway. This act causes all the crafworlds to move to the Segmentum Solar to protect the Black Library. The black library emerges from the webway before it completely collapses and crashes into Saturns' moon, Titan. This causes the entirety of the SOB, Inquisition and GK forces to defend GK HQ. To help protect the knowledge of Chaos from escaping, 1/3 of all space marine chapters are sent to the Moon.
The battle at Titan rages until the last day.
Another 3rd of all the chapters and successor chapters are sent to the new front lines of the war and the last 3rd are guarding the Terra system in General.
Eldrad, Vect, Ceogorach, Cypher and a few other Heroes approach the Primarchs with their plan. The Primarchs that listen are Leman, Vulkan, Corax.
This grand alliance based on the belief that the Emperor must Die to be reborn a true god. Eldrad also reveals that he plans to sacrifice the Eldar so that they as a race can be reborn and their gods freed.
Ceogorach reveals himself to all. They all stand in Awe of an actual god in their midst. He informs them that Gork and Mork are now fully realized entities in the warp and they too need to be quelled because they unknowingly are giving the Chaos gods power.
The Marine Primarchs agree to the terms as they know that all will come to an end unless measures are taken. - based on the fluff they would be the most likely primarchs to do so, imo.
So this ultimate strike force of Eldrad, all the phoenix lords and dozens of units of aspects warriors of each aspect - Vect and his Cabal - Space Wolves, Salamanders and Raven Guard - Farsight and his 8 + cadre of his finest units - Orikan and a legion of elite Necrons board a fleet of necron shroud-class cruisers (the same that infiltrated MARS).
They head to Mars and war erupts all around them. They sneak onto the planet and retrieve the Tesseract Labyrinth at the core of Mars. This actually does contain the Void Dragon. As they leave Mars the Void Dragon wakes and wrecks havoc on technology throught the solar system. Only the protected necron ships are unaffected.
The ship carrying the void dragon then departs for necron space to hid the labyrinth forever.
This disruption allows the strike force to penetrate the Imperial Palace's defenses. The leaders of the strike force make it to the throne room where they battle the Custodes.
There, Cypher/Omegon, presents the sword. The emperor lets out a sigh. He really is an emaciated looking skeletal being now. Psychically, he says thank-you. Lion El Johnson wakes up and heads to earth. The Rock is in the Terra system now.
The emperor then asks Cypher to kill him with the sword. Cypher does. The emperor turns to dust and vanishes. The other primarchs appear to see whats happened and find their brothers have taken up arms against them and allied with Xenos. Ceogorach tells them the end has begun and vanishes. Everyone sits there as Eldrad explains what will happen.
Cut to the Warp
The emperor appears - looks different than before. - Good chance to re-imagine him. Beside him stands - Ceogorach and 2 other figures - Sanguinus and Malcador. Ceogorach tells him what has transpired. They head to Nurgles garden and free Isha. Ceogorach makes sure nurgle knows he did it.
Nurgle is enraged and blames Slaanesh for the Eldar incursion. The team get the Chaos gods to fight each other and get Gork and Mork involved.
The last act has all the gods so enraged that the emperor is in their realm and is now a god, that they all seek him out. The Emperor opens a portal to reality and goads them into following him to fight once and for all for complete ownership of the material realm. The chaos gods, and Gork and Mork leave the warp and appear on Terra.
Malcador and Sanguinus are reborn - Sanguinus fuses back with the Sanguinor.
An epic battle takes place - Terra is destroyed. Everyone is killed but the Gods. Ynnead is born when the last eldar dies - Eldrad.
*MCGUFFIN ALERT*Then the Old Ones appear - they did not die. Just left to another galaxy/universe. The nids were running away from them. They were yet another creation of the Old Ones - who go out of hand. The old ones are much more powerful than before. They're power is greater than that of the chaos gods. The old ones Kill the Chaos gods. Tzeech is the last to die. He's been blinded and lost his ability to see all possibilities. This was done by the Old Ones prior to entering this galaxy again.
Gork and Mork disappear as all the Orks are destroyed. The chaos gods were also highly weakened by all their followers dying out. The emperor a being of pure light now, is filled with grief. He never wanted to be revered as a god and now was akin to one. His children are dead. He has no purpose now.
The Old Ones tell the Emperor and Ynnead, Cegorach and Isha that this universe was a failed experiment. They tell the emperor of a parallel universe to this one they created that has no gods or warp. "Everything is as it should be" they tell him. The emperor is pleased and vanishes. Ynnead, Cegorach and Isha enter a pocket dimension where they can watch the eldar from afar. The Old Ones begin a process of destroying the current 40k universe via Big Crunch scenario.
8th ed.
8th ed takes place in the parallel universe. All the Races are present. The current time is as it was then. Each race is an empire within the universe vying for control of their sectors of space.
Religion as a concept still exists however there are no gods or warp to manifest this belief into reality.
Psykers still exist however their power comes from within and they're really just Telepaths/marvel super heros etc...
Interstellar travel is done via traditional Sci-fi Methods - warp drive/worm holes/hyperspace etc...
-The Imperium of Man(Astra Mil, Inquisition, Grey Knights) is still a sh!thole of infighting bureaucracy and fear mongering. They are united in their hatred of xeno species. Theocracy run.
-The Admech is its own empire of humans that fethed off from the imperium and embraced machines. They have trade deals cut with IOM, Sisters and Marines to provide technology in exchange for raw materials.
-Sisters are reimagined as another human empire - matriarchy
-Each space marine chapter is their own small empire lead by their primarchs. Marines serve as the soldiers for their Empire. The Empire itself would be named after their home worlds. The chapter name would be the force name for the army. Ex "The Fenrisian Empire has sent the Space Wolves into battle". Each Primarch is a clone of the original primarch and dons the name of the original primarch. They live in their own small cultish societies rooted around their various belief systems depicted in the fluff about the primarch homeworlds.
-Orks have their own small empire and mainly act as mercenaries or junkers. Their no longer made of fungus.
-Eldar craftworlds and Dark Eldar each act as their own empires that occasionally ally in various disputes. Harlequins have no empire but have roving troupes that perform or fight for the highest bidder.
-Necrons were the Necrontyr of old but chose to enter metal bodies in a quest for immortality. Their dynasties are small empires in the galaxy that occasionally fight each other and will unite to fight greater threats
-Tyranids - Tyranids are flipped - Genestealer cults are actually the rulers of the tyranid race. They're a freakish race of humanoids whose technology moved entirely into biotech. Tyranids are all various weapons of war for the Genestealers.
-Chaos Demons / Chaos Marines - A long time ago a number of wars occurred that included a variety of biological weapons. Chaos Marines and Demons are the biproduct of this war. They were once marine empires that are now so mutated and twisted that their worlds resemble various depictions of hell Their primarchs mutated into their demonic forms because of all the gene therapies and augmentations they went through to become supermen. Other Marine worlds that were not/less affected by these weapons are just ruled by the the same primarchs who are megalomaniacs and not benevolent.
-Tau - the Tau function in pretty much the same way. However they are not led by Ethereals. They're a Meritocracy race. The caste system is still in play. The Ethereals are their spritual healers that the society as a whole still like to have around as they find they provide a good moral compass.
- I don't think i have left anyone out?
The galaxy is still at war as each of the empires looks to increase their control. No ones army got messed with. Demon primarchs and 40k primarchs get to be included in the story going forward.
The tone of a few armies has changed. But i think its for the better. My idea is to grow the setting up a bit more. Doing something like this means that we can have more campaigns and various warzones happen more often. GW could have a galaxy map and even track progress of how each empire grows or contracts with different engagements.
IOM is still grim and dark. Their the version of humanity that happens when religion, greed and fear take over. Everyone is vying for power. Everyone is roughly equal. Even more can happen now to really individualise marine armies. No more evil god shenanigans.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/12 15:47:16
9000
8000
Knights / Assassins 800 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 16:24:04
Subject: Re:How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
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Wow.
That is one huge document on the "End Times".
There are a multitude of documents that could all be tied together to make for a smashing event without going too crazy (the hives of Tyranid combining is scary in it's own right).
Another Black Crusade from our good buddy Abaddon.
There were notes that the black obelisks on Cadia were somehow holding back the warp but were developing cracks over time: On the big invasion a bunch of them "blow" and the warp comes to the "gate" of the imperium.
The Grey Knights have to make a decision of opening the mysterious box Malcador left 'when all hope is lost".
Heck, just the orks finding out about it would not want to be left out of a good fight... the Wagh to end all could happen.
The Eldar would duck and cover as Slanesh grows in power in the materium.
More Necrons could awaken, I suspect they would find Chaos more irritating than the other races.
Tau would circle the wagons and entrench I think.
Dark Eldar: business as usual, or at the very least some good "opportunities".
I know there were specific codex's put out for "end times" events so that would always be fun.
Armageddon I got my first Black Templar rules so I welcome these kinds of things.
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A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 16:27:14
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Its just going to be an other black crusade with a ton of cool models. Nothing is really going to end if you ask me.
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Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 16:39:49
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte
United States
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I see one big problem with this scenario. Necrons. Necrons would not care, at all, about the Eldar, or the old ones, or any of that nonsense. If they found out the Tau were intended to be their new necrontyr vessels they would swoop in, take some to put in stasis, and then wipe the floor against the old ones while letting everyone else kill themselves and then have themselves a whole bunch of shiny new C'Tan shards and an empty galaxy for them to rule unchallenged.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 17:14:48
Subject: Re:How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Regular Dakkanaut
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That's a very impressive story, I liked a lot of it. The only race I can speak on with any authority is the necrons, so if I may critique just a bit. First, as necessary as it may be for the end times, I cannot see the Necrons forming an alliance with the eldar. They might hate each other more than any other two factions, which is saying a lot. And I'm not sure how the Eldar could behave built the tau for the necrons to inhabit, since they were fighting bitterly up until hours before the great sleep. The other thing is that the silent King is real and operating in the galaxy in the 41st millennium. Further more, Anrakyr has shown no interest in replacing him yet. I'm also not sure how orikan fits in, since he is currently working for Imotekh, the most powerful Phaeron in the galaxy, who doesn't appear in your story. You've inspired me though, so I'll see if I can create a detailed end times scenario just for necrons and post it. Other than the necrons though, everything looks good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/12 17:16:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 17:26:06
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
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I don't think that would keep many people happy at all. Don't get me wrong, there's some great elements to your story and I like what you have written, but if that's how the game and the fluff went I'd be mightily peeved.
It answers too many questions and spoils a lot of the mystery, it destroys the universe and starts everything over.
One of the greatest draws for me to 40k is the background and how rich and deep it is. Tearing it up basically makes the whole think empty and vapid.
Personally end times would be a bad idea for 40k in general. Moving the hands of the clock from five minutes to midnight to four minutes to midnight would be a big enough progression for me.
Sure bring back some Primarchs, start some new big conflicts, but do it in the established universe we have that's already pretty much IN the end times.
Basically don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 18:06:37
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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General Kroll wrote:I don't think that would keep many people happy at all. Don't get me wrong, there's some great elements to your story and I like what you have written, but if that's how the game and the fluff went I'd be mightily peeved.
It answers too many questions and spoils a lot of the mystery, it destroys the universe and starts everything over.
One of the greatest draws for me to 40k is the background and how rich and deep it is. Tearing it up basically makes the whole think empty and vapid.
Personally end times would be a bad idea for 40k in general. Moving the hands of the clock from five minutes to midnight to four minutes to midnight would be a big enough progression for me.
Sure bring back some Primarchs, start some new big conflicts, but do it in the established universe we have that's already pretty much IN the end times.
Basically don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I agree with this. What you have written, whilst interesting and might make a good story, would not leave the player base happy. I can't speak for other factions but as a chaos player: killing off the chaos gods!? Much blood would be spilt.
Personally I would say advancing the fluff to the point that the imperium as a whole has crumbled: Terra was destroyed by the successful black crusade and the emperor is 'dead' (perhaps hints can be given that he is still alive somewhere so that those who actually like the emperor (!!???) are not too peaved), the nids and the orks have split apart the lower areas of the galaxy (that was horribly phrased I'm sorry) and the Necrons have started waking up all over the place leading to galaxy wide termoil. The Tau, now that they aren't being hounded by the imperium have expanded their empire.
This way the xenos and chaos players can actually catch a brake and feel like they aren't backing armies that just get pounded by the imperium because we're the bad guys, and those who support guard and space marines still can as individual chapters and companies of guard are still defending their home land.
I can't speak for everyone but from what I think and from what my friends think (imperial, xenos and chaos alike) the only thing all factions of 40k hate is the Emperor and his ability to hold the imperium together. A fractured Imperium would make for a much more interesting background.
But of course that is just my opinion.
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 21:04:19
Subject: Re:How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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"How to bring about the End Times in 40k and progress the Story Line without angering the fan base"
I don't see this promise fulfilled in the stories I have seen in this thread....
Option 1 :
- driving away all the fans, then End Times and progress for a non-existent "story line" could work, no one left to be angry.
Option 2 :
- 40k is a Galaxy. A story line for a Galaxy and millions of inhabited worlds? Really?
- End Times. They are always there, you can't add what we already have...
- angry fan base. Easy to get, hard to evade.
Conclusion: Realize the scale of the "playing field" of 40k + give up on a "single story line" covering the lifes and thus "stories" of an uncountable number of beings + keeping you hands off of the "squat button" goes a very long way.
Yes, I don't like this idea of a restart button and the , IMHO false hope , of things getting better afterwards.
In wh 40k the rise and fall of civilizations and empires is common practice in the background, where do you think artifacts and ruins come from?
But playable factions usually create angry fans when you remove them or change their tone, too far. Thats where I agree with everyone the Hobby deserves a lot of caution when you move something.
GW in their wisdom put new guys and ancient ones in their basket. If you pick Necrons for example, they are one of the oldest space farers, just beaten by the old ones and maybe some we don't get to know.
Eldar and Orks can be found in stories of Necrontyr vs old ones. The chaos creatures seem to really start their chaotic life back then too. Tyranids recently arrived in this Galaxy but who knows how old they are?
Now this means it is just Humans an Tau who are not millions of years active. Humans had some time and Tau are the new kids on the block.
A reboot is hitting Humans a lot, Necrons / Eldar / Orks / Chaos / ( Tyranids ) had their time in the sun and the Tau won't know what they are missing.
Maybe we end the "stories" ofthose who had eons ( Eldar Orks Necron chaos ) before we kick the Humans over the cliff ? Please ?
Lets assume GW blows everything to bits and pulls the "get out of jail free cards" ( also known as Primarchs , Plastic T-Hawk, Plastic sisters ) , how many times can they do this?
2017. ? 2018 ? 2019? 2020?
Because to reboot more than 1x or if really troubled 2x , is something you do with a PC, not a tabletop game system if you want to have fans ( maybe even customers ).
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Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/12 21:20:19
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Renesco P. Blue wrote:I. Necrons would not care, at all, about the Eldar, or the old ones, or any of that nonsense.
Lol are you kidding us. This is the main story of 40k.
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Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/13 19:17:18
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Point of order... Tau technology is laughably primitive in comparison to the Necrons. If the Tau somehow developed something the Necrons wanted, the Necrons would take it. Full stop. The Tau try to stop them? The Necrons have a host of tools to destroy the Tau. Mindshackled Ethereals. Deathmark Assassins. Tesseract Labyrinth "diplomatic gifts". Lychguard. The Celestial Orrery. Time-traveling Orikan the Diviner. Better and faster ships. Dolmen Gates. Gauss Rifles. The entire Tau population is a fragment of any one Dynasty. They are, in no way, shape or form, a challenge to the Necrons. Necrons do not serve anyone (any more... they learned that lesson with the C'Tan over 60 million years ago). Other races are either vassals or victims, never allies or equals.
Gork and Mork are already present in the Warp as fully-realized Warp Gods. They fight one another constantly, except when another god in the Warp interferes, in which case Gork and Mork beat the piss out of that god until it goes away.
The Old Ones are lizard people. They aren't gods. You cannot kill a Chaos God, not really. They are formed by mortal emotions and drives. Kill Tzeentch? You just eradicated ambition from the galaxy. Kill Khorne? You just ended warfare and violence. Rather, what you've done is destroyed that named manifestation of those concepts... but they will return, so long as thinking mortals exist in the galaxy to shape the Warp, and be shaped by it.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/13 19:23:37
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Psienesis wrote: The Old Ones are lizard people. They aren't gods. You cannot kill a Chaos God, not really. They are formed by mortal emotions and drives. Kill Tzeentch? You just eradicated ambition from the galaxy. Kill Khorne? You just ended warfare and violence. Rather, what you've done is destroyed that named manifestation of those concepts... but they will return, so long as thinking mortals exist in the galaxy to shape the Warp, and be shaped by it. You can kill the chaos gods. Just adopt the good old "death to vermin" motto and start eradicating warp sensitive species starting with the IoM, until that whole warp nonsense is finally over. Is it a practical approach, no. Are there alien races who are seriously considering this, yes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/13 19:25:20
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/13 19:25:12
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Fixture of Dakka
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This idea is incredibly flawed. There isn't any way you're going to advance the story without 'upsetting' anyone. GW certainly can't.
Definitely not what you wrote either.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/13 19:26:35
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/13 19:33:53
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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My guess would be that they simply plan to feed slanesh enough souls preferable some legendary hidden vault of soul stones until he becomes what he eats. This could go two ways. - The lord of boobtastic and unmarketable models becomes the lord of dead space elf nuns making the marketing team happy. or. - Something goes horrible wrong and slaanesh scatters. The Eldar part gives birth to eldar stuff. Avatars, food for reviving death gods who knows. And the SM part becomes a god of all things Slaanesh that don't have boobz all over the place. Making the marketing team happy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/13 19:35:23
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/16 23:36:04
Subject: Re:How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator
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"How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base"?
Not possible...
Next!
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1st, 2nd & 10th Co. 13000 pts
Order of the Ashen Rose - 650 pts
The Undying - 1800 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 00:34:41
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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There are heaps of things you could do to advance the storyline which wouldn't impact the game mechanics/codices at all. It'd be smart to start with something like this in order to prepare for the next release of codices (really the only time you can advance a story line or change an army). I don't think anyone would become upset if an army list or codex changes a bit after 3-4 years in a current edition etc.
Would it make ANY difference if they showed a map of the Imperium and said "oh these thousand planets have fallen to the Tyranids/Tau/Necrons" etc? Nope. Not a bit. You could remove a few special characters (to be replaced eventually) which wouldn't be a disaster for anyone. Then in a couple years when the next codices come out you can start to introduce impacts.
That being said as long as 40K sells they'll avoid a "reset" button approach. Personally I'd like to see the Imperium pushed heavily onto the back foot (even if nothing changes in-game I'd like to see them taken down a peg or two). The strength of 40K is definitely in the fluff/story so they'll avoid a reset/destruction of everything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 00:54:44
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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You'd have to crack the status quo in a way that ends in a comparatively similar status quo. That said the things the rumour mill is saying about the Daemon Primarchs and the loaded guns pointing at the setting right now (the Void Dragon, the Golden Throne failing...) suggest Abaddon is finally going to get thrown a bone and the Fourteenth Black Crusade is going to succeed.
That said knowing GW Eldrad is going to bring about the birth of Ynnead by shutting the Golden Throne off, because he's been the Emperor all along.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 03:15:40
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Preacher of the Emperor
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I disagree with a lot of this, but I appreciate that you're trying. I have some major concearns, and minor nitpicks based on what I think are broad differences of opinion in the way we characterize some of the 40k races:
-If the Eldar did engineer the Tau (which wasn't really clear even when it was most strongly hinted) there's no way the did it to benefit anyone other than themselves, most certainly not the Necrons. Necrons are not Eldar, they therefore do not matter.
-You don't need to 'heal' every primarch, they can come back injured, Dorn as Big Boss would be awesome.
-You likewise don't need to bring back definitely dead primarchs, let Sanguinius rest.
-Tyranid hive fleets are obstensibly directed by one force, you don't need them to be lead by 'leviathan' or any of the existing fleet inteligences, just say the 'hand' for which the existing fleets are 'fingers' has finally arrived in bulk.
... also...
-You don't need to actually end the universe and start a fresh one all over again, you can advance the narrative in a way that keeps the factions around and keeps them fighting.
Broad strokes, how I'd do it:
Either a 14th or retconned 13th Black Crusade. Abaddon sets out intending to break the Imperium's back over his knee, the actual subtlety of his objectives from previous black crusades is abandoned in favour of wholesale slaughter and the success of which flies in the face of the fanbase's common misconception that his previous crusades have been ineptly executed failures. Their arrival is preceeded by massive warp storms sweeping through the galaxy.
A large tendril of the tyranid hive fleet (from which all previously encountered hive fleets have been branched off of) makes a big splash in the Ultramar Segmatum before consolidating and trying to make way towards Terra. The Ultramarines and their many successors rally to try to stop it.
A massive Waaaaagh underway, preparing to smash the 'umies right proppah is likewise weylaid by the massive nid fleet, more smaller Waaaaaghs crop up in the absence of imperial attention and end up flocking to fight the nid fleet as a sort of ork Valhalla.
The Eldar are engaging in a psuedo-civil war as their half-aborted god of death is demanding a tithe of souls to complete itself and Eldrad is driving it on.
As the imperials struggle with two major crises at once, the Tau push out and expand again. Able to circumvent the containment measures taken against them in the Damocles campaign by developing a longer range warp drive.
The Imperium of Man is beset on all sides, struggling as it has all this time.
Then something happens.
And everything changes.
The Astronomicon goes out.
On Terra, there is wailing in the streets. The Emperor is dead.
This throws the campaign underway into complete turmoil. Imperium forces are thrown off hard, everybody's defending individual planets and the Imperium at large is literally collapsing just beyond sight. The Tyranids stop with the b-line for Terra and start spreading outward laterally from whereever they are in the galaxy, Necrons awoken by them are fighting them as well, Orks are still quite happy. Tau are also now fighting nids as they spread out backwards towards Tau space, but it's not as bad there.
Even the Chaos forces are startled by this sudden development. But Abbadon is eventually able to rally and give them purpose: Consolidate the gains they've made now, and then, make way for Terra. They may be empeded by the lack of the Astronomicon (are they? I don't know that about Chaos lore...) but not so much as their enemies are. They'll turn the tomb of the Dead Emperor into a glorious daemon world. At this point if there are any Daemon Primarchs who are not already engaged in the crusade in some cappacity they also show up the join in.
Doom descends upon the Imperium of Man, its fleets struggle with minute warp jumps of 4-5 light years at a time, Space Marine chapters are split apart, fleets are decimated, evil is everywhere. But here and there, there are glimmers of hope. The surviving loyalist primarchs begin to reappear, Guilliman awakens, his wounds healed, though he still feels the burning poison, Lion El'Jonson awakens, Dorn, Russ, Kahn, etc, all appear and begin rallying humanity behind them (not all of them with space marines of or descended from their legion too, I think it'd be neat if like Dorn lead a fleet and guard regiment until meeting up with a few marine chapters and rolled them all together with legion tactics.) while elsewhere tales of heroism shine brightest as the darkest of nights close in. They come to realize Abaddon is making his way towards Terra and pursue, spreading the word as best they can through strained astropathic communication.
Forces furthest from Terra are no less desperate to get home, and in time, Tau overtures involving their new warp drive become tempting, even if it's just the promise of being able to skim across 8 or 9 light years per jump, in turn the Tau believe they can ingratiate themselves to the Imperium by defending their seat of power in their time of need... for the Greater Good (and frankly, the Tyranids convince them they want to make friendly with humanity if at all possible).
Meanwhile the roiling avalanche of fighting orks, necrons and tyranids are also gradually making its way towards Terra, the galactic map looks like it has a big fissure running through it.
The battle for Sol is just... nuts. The Grey Knights are seated there, they're fighting with everything they've got but are driven back as fleets crumple against the onslaught of chaos forces, which take up station around Jupiter and it's moons in preparation for a massive assault. Eventually the Grey Knights fall back to Terra, but not before blowing up Titan and somehow taking out Jupiter with it.
Abaddon's fleet sets out for Terra, issuing an ultimatum to Mars: No one is coming to save them. Stand by and watch as Terra is destroyed, and prepare to serve me- or join them now and die. Mars sends Terra reinforcements.
The battle for Terra is bloody and desperate, Abaddon's vanguard consists of splinters of the larger ork/necron/nid battle, perhaps through warp trickery or something... I'm not 100% on how to keep all the races involved at this point...
In the ruins of the imperial palace, the battle is all but lost. Abaddon forms an advancing battle line, marching triumphantly towards the central compound. Custodes, Astartes, and Sororitas stand shoulder to shoulder with civilians and peasants of all stripes. All with weapons in their hands, all with tears in their eyes. They'll defend the resting place of their Emperor to their last breath and nothing will deter them. As the final battle lines are drawn, a drop pod descends from the sky, tearing through cloud cover and trailing smoke, it touches down hard close to the defenders' line, and the doors open.
A stunned silence falls upon all gathered, as a figure emerges from the drop pod. It's a space marine, in blue Corvus pattern armour. His team files out of the pod and forms a battle line behind it, using it as cover, as he activates the pod's locator beacon. He looks back at the crowd defending the imperial palace almost as an afterthought, and just as more drop pods descent below the cloud cover, he voxcasts four words in the open: "The beacon is lit."
The Astronomican is lit up again. The Emperor is dead and the Astronomican is lit. 40k is briefly swept up in noblebright.
The final battle for Terra is played out as an extra long campaign event in GW stores across the country. Fragments of tyranid, ork, necron forces are fighting all comers, Chaos and the Imperium are fighting each other, Eldar are pouring out of the webway portal beneath the palace and silently lending their aid, up in orbit massive fleets duke it out at close range just in time to launch the new Battlefleet Gothic specialist game. Tau are there, helping out, every spurned or forgotten chapter from the Celestial Lions to the Rainbow Warriors are on the ground taking names, and Warhammer 40k ends with a war.
Following the outcome as decided by said store campaign, the players are introduced to the 42nd millenium. The galaxy has changed drastically, a section looks like it has a massive tear in it pointed right at Terra, where there are still pockets of Tyranids gnawing at the edges while everything inside of that rip is dead (save the necrons who have taken up ownership of that rather large swathe of the galaxy). The smaller side of that split includes the Tau's existing territory, and they're expanding, taking advantage of the fact that the Imperium forces on the larger side need to travel around it in order to get at them. The Imperium itself lives on, but in what form is the factor that's been decided by this campaign.
Whether the Imperium or Chaos win the day determines whether the surviving Imperium is based on Terra or not, if Chaos won, Terra is a daemon world and the surviving Imperial remnant is based in the Ultramar Segmatum, and in both cases the Astronomican is still lit, and no one can figure out why, or can figure out how to shut it off (in the case of the Chaos forces)
The 42nd millenium has seen the Imperium forcibly, and quite painfully, shrunk by the massive onslaught by multiple sides, the current status quo is less stable than that of the 41st, but still, somehow, humanity endures. There is no time for respite though, as Chaos has made intolerable advances into realspace, enigmatic aliens from the far reaches of the universe, the dawn of time, or even right next door have claimed territory they have no right to own, and no true means of keeping from its rightful owners, and in every corner the mutant and the heretic scheme and plot their own petty victories against the faithful. In the grim darkness of the 42nd Millenium, there is still only war.
... Or something like that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 03:20:54
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The rumors say Tau will be having a breakout. So this sounds like they have/will conquer the Damocles gulf. Which puts them ins striking distance of Ultramar. I think they will finally invent a new type of FTL or they will catch up and discover warp drives.
My bets are they set their sights on Ultramar but might be slowed or stopped from conquering it depending on unseen threats (Necrons and Orks).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/17 05:29:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 04:37:44
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Following the outcome as decided by said store campaign, the players are introduced to the 42nd millenium
If it is anything like how the EoT Campaign ended, then Chaos wins a crushing victory against the Imperium, Terra burns to the ground, and it is now WH40k: Age of Abaddon.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 05:06:33
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They are not completely resetting the story or moving it that far. They want to advance it and that's it. Not reboot AoS style or move so far ahead it may as well be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 05:10:54
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Opened up this thread expecting "oh great this bloody Thea's again." Saw the op, looked at my clock, looked at the op looked back at the clock, it's 10.
This is a lot more then I expected its way to late to read al this. If some one could give me a Tl;dr for tomorrow much love from the emperor or respective xeno God you worship.
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To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 07:34:05
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
Warsaw
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You can't. Because 40K is a setting, not a story and every attempt at progress would result in simialr disaster that happened to WFB.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 15:14:50
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Gamgee wrote:They are not completely resetting the story or moving it that far. They want to advance it and that's it. Not reboot AoS style or move so far ahead it may as well be.
The 'present' of 40k is already in the the final century of the 41st millennium, advancing to the opening century of the 42nd isn't such a leap.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/17 15:26:37
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Xathrodox86 wrote:You can't. Because 40K is a setting, not a story and every attempt at progress would result in simialr disaster that happened to WFB. I would strongly disagree with that, WFB was a colossal gak up on a monumental scale, akin to warddian fluff of necrons and blood angels being bros. You could very easily progress the story ill do it in short bullet points. -Primarch come back. -impirum gets on its high horse and space marine legions return since their primarchs can now lead them -Cypher finally gets to terra, and absolves the dark angels, doing so, he pulls the plug on the emperors life support. -The big E gone, the warp explodes causeing a crap tone of demons to start pouring out. -Eldar take some hits, -cadnian gate is lost -The demon portal in the imperial palace basement has demons flooding out of it. -Cypher looks like a dick now but was the only one who remembered the Big E was a perpetual -Said Big E steps outta the portal in the palace is like im back yall -In the time it took for the Big E to come back, demons went on a gak storm ripping apart anything near the eye of terror. -impirum loses half its crap, but with the Big E back in town he has taken the IoM by the horns and is on the war path, technology comes back, Tau are on the brink of destruction but the IoM swings on in and saves them resulting in a quazy alliance between the two. -dark eldar have a field day with looting. -Eldar make a reluctant alliance with man because their leader who is not a total bell end knows how to fight a war. -Orks declare a massive universal WAAAAHG since all of the animosity going on causes them to want to kill and destroy very orky. -Necrons are still salty ass holes -Nids still eating the galaxy BAM! story is now advanced to a point where factions are actually making head way and if we want to do an AOS look at it you can now break down the forces into their respective orders Order: IoM in all flavors Eldar Tau Chaos: Demons Chaos marines Nids Destructions Dark eldar Ork Death Necrons Everyone suffers massive losses save for the bad guys, and with leaders back it puts the game in a story and rule wise, in a good place.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/17 15:27:09
To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/19 09:31:15
Subject: How to bring about the End Times in 40k and Progress the Story line without angering the fan base
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
Warsaw
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Backspacehacker wrote: Xathrodox86 wrote:You can't. Because 40K is a setting, not a story and every attempt at progress would result in simialr disaster that happened to WFB.
I would strongly disagree with that, WFB was a colossal gak up on a monumental scale, akin to warddian fluff of necrons and blood angels being bros.
You could very easily progress the story ill do it in short bullet points.
-Primarch come back.
-impirum gets on its high horse and space marine legions return since their primarchs can now lead them
-Cypher finally gets to terra, and absolves the dark angels, doing so, he pulls the plug on the emperors life support.
-The big E gone, the warp explodes causeing a crap tone of demons to start pouring out.
-Eldar take some hits,
-cadnian gate is lost
-The demon portal in the imperial palace basement has demons flooding out of it.
-Cypher looks like a dick now but was the only one who remembered the Big E was a perpetual
-Said Big E steps outta the portal in the palace is like im back yall
-In the time it took for the Big E to come back, demons went on a gak storm ripping apart anything near the eye of terror.
-impirum loses half its crap, but with the Big E back in town he has taken the IoM by the horns and is on the war path, technology comes back, Tau are on the brink of destruction but the IoM swings on in and saves them resulting in a quazy alliance between the two.
-dark eldar have a field day with looting.
-Eldar make a reluctant alliance with man because their leader who is not a total bell end knows how to fight a war.
-Orks declare a massive universal WAAAAHG since all of the animosity going on causes them to want to kill and destroy very orky.
-Necrons are still salty ass holes
-Nids still eating the galaxy
BAM! story is now advanced to a point where factions are actually making head way and if we want to do an AOS look at it you can now break down the forces into their respective orders
Order:
IoM in all flavors
Eldar
Tau
Chaos:
Demons
Chaos marines
Nids
Destructions
Dark eldar
Ork
Death
Necrons
Everyone suffers massive losses save for the bad guys, and with leaders back it puts the game in a story and rule wise, in a good place.
End Times were partially written by Ward, but even without him they were horrendously bad. The way that GW closed plot points in WFB was akin to a monkey with a scalpel, performing a neuro surgery.
As for your points: sure they're doable, but from fluff point, most of them would make many people mad. I'm not saying that they would not work, only that it would be extremly hard to pull something like that off.
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