3000 Serrated Sun from a new 30k player

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**Slayer-Fan123**

So I tried to not apply my main 40k list building principles to this, but at the same time I tried to not make it inefficient. Here's what I have so far:

HQ:
x1 Zardu Layak w/ Blade Slaves

Troops:
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Legion Drop Pod
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Legion Drop Pod
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes, Dark Channeling
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes, Dark Channeling

Elites:
x5 Tartaros Terminators
. 5 Combi-Meltas, 2 Power Fists, Dark Channeling
x5 Tartaros Terminators
. 5 Combi-Meltas, 2 Power Fists, Dark Channeling
x10 Veteren Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Legion Drop Pod, Dark Channeling
x10 Veteren Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Legion Drop Pod, Dark Channeling

Fast Attack:
x1 Anvillus Drop Pod

Heavy Support:
x1 Predator
. Lascannon Sponsons
x1 Predator
. Lascannon Sponsons
x1 Predator
. Lascannon Sponsons

So that leaves 130 points left over if I'm correct. I have read the books several times but there's so many things to memorize and try to counter for, along with only so many points to spare!
So the main plan is to obviously drop units where they'd be most effective. Gal Vorbak and Veterens can pop lighter transports, and Ashen Circle can clean up the remains as they actually hit reasonably hard. However, I haven't played 30k and I'm unsure if the two Terminator Squads and the Predators will be enough for larger vehicles, and I'm unsure on how to spend the last points in the list as well. Any advice is of course welcome so long as it just doesn't make the list super ineffective but still presents nicely.

**jhe90**

You could get a apchery for bonus to a unit or artificer armour for seargents in squads?

**Slayer-Fan123**

jhe90 wrote:
You could get a apchery for bonus to a unit or artificer armour for seargents in squads?

I don't have the book in front of me, but if Apothecaries can take Jump Packs I can attach them to the Ashen Circle I suppose...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, was the limit 4 or 5 Elites? If only four I can't do that without having removed one of the Terminators or Veterans.

**combat engineer**

I think, still, that veterans are to expensive for their worth. The Apothecaries joining the Ashen Circle squads would help them out.

**Matt.Kingsley**

You need either a Centurion (without Consul Upgrades) or a Chaplain Consul as a second compulsory for this to be a valid list (the joy of being Word Bearers), so that's what you'll have to spend some of those 130 points on.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Thanks! Sorry I don't know how it TOTALLY works yet!

**combat engineer**

Any thoughts on dropping the Vets and Terminators, add in a cheap Chaplain like Erebus, some apothecaries and the WB possessed dreadnought?

**Slayer-Fan123**

I can definitely tell you that the Possessed Dread is too expensive.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
You could get a apchery for bonus to a unit or artificer armour for seargents in squads?

I don't have the book in front of me, but if Apothecaries can take Jump Packs I can attach them to the Ashen Circle I suppose...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, was the limit 4 or 5 Elites? If only four I can't do that without having removed one of the Terminators or Veterans.

You can get them Jump Packs now and attatch them to any Legions:____ Unit out of terminator armor.

**Forcast**

I'm not 100% on my understanding of the orbital assault rite of war (which I assume you are using). But I don't think you can take the Preds since they can't use deep strike.

**gorgon**

He's using a WB rite, not Orbital Assault. The Preds are fine.

But I'm not clear how Zardu and one unit of Terminators are arriving. All Infantry units have to arrive via DS, a pod, or teleport, right? But that rite doesn't grant Terminators DS, IIRC.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I gave Zardu and his guyson their own pod.

I swear that Tartaros Armor Terminators had Deep Strike. If not I have more rules to reread!

**gorgon**

30K Terminator Armor doesn't come with DS. Note how the Orbital Assault RoW specifically grants DS to Terminators. Same thing for the Black Reaving RoW for SoH.

What Tartaros armor gets you is the ability to perform sweeping advances.

**Forcast**

Oh ok, I was just looking at generic ROWs.

Looks like I was on the right track though not with the right units.

**Slayer-Fan123**

gorgon wrote:
30K Terminator Armor doesn't come with DS. Note how the Orbital Assault RoW specifically grants DS to Terminators. Same thing for the Black Reaving RoW for SoH.

What Tartaros armor gets you is the ability to perform sweeping advances.

Never assume, as that makes an ass of you and me!

I'll likely remove the Terminators entirely then and get more AT. Would another Predator be okay or should I look elsewhere?

**Forcast**

You might still be in a 40k mindset with your list building.

Will you be able to chew through 2x 20 man 3+ 5+++ blobs with more AT?

Will your smaller squads be able to live through a volley of 10 plasma guns rapid firing?

These are some questions I don't normally have to answer in 40K, but I have run into these alot in 30k.

Not gospel by any means, just a suggestion.

**Ashiraya**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I can definitely tell you that the Possessed Dread is too expensive.

It is very expensive, though it has its uses - it is my go-to Leviathan killer.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'll post my fixes tonight.

The games won't be happening in a few weeks. What would be the absolute hard counters to what I'm working with so far though?

**calypso2ts**

combat engineer wrote:
I think, still, that veterans are to expensive for their worth. The Apothecaries joining the Ashen Circle squads would help them out.

Unfortunately the Ashen Circle cannot be joined by an IC due to their Bitter Duty rule.

I have 10x Ashen Circle and I have used them a few times. They are overpriced but I like their unique flavor for a WB force. I would consider adding a Phosphex Bomb to the Ashen Circle and Artificer Armor to the Sgt.

**jhe90**

At that level with 25% lord of war they could br 750 points.

Knights. Primarch and super heavy tanks. Even small titans
Something to think about

**gorgon**

Swapping the terminators for assault marines could also be an option. They got a lot cheaper in the new army list book, and they'd probably interface well with all the jump infantry and deep strikers you have there.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Alright, so here's the redone list:

HQ:
x1 Zardu + Blade Slaves
x1 Centurion
. Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Burning Lore

Troops:
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Drop Pod
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Drop Pod
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes

Elites:
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod

Fast Attack:
x1 Dreadclaw Drop Pod
x3 Attack Bikes
. 3 Multi-Meltas

Heavy Support:
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor

I think the updated list is still pretty cohesive. I decided that the Dark Channeling might not be worth it, but I'd like to hear from you guys on that matter. It's several points saved after all.

**SirDonlad**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I can definitely tell you that the Possessed Dread is too expensive.

You appear to still have your '40k' hat on sir.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Alright, so here's the redone list:

Spoiler:

HQ:
x1 Zardu + Blade Slaves
x1 Centurion
. Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Burning Lore

Troops:
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Drop Pod
x5 Gal Vorbak
. Power Maul, Artificer Armor, Drop Pod
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes
x10 Ashen Circle
. 2 Power Axes

Elites:
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod
x10 Veteran Tactical Marines, Marksmen or Machine Killers
. 2 Plasma Guns, 1 Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod

Fast Attack:
x1 Dreadclaw Drop Pod
x3 Attack Bikes
. 3 Multi-Meltas

Heavy Support:
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor
x1 Vindicator
. Laser Destroyer, Combi-Bolter, Extra Armor

I think the updated list is still pretty cohesive. I decided that the Dark Channeling might not be worth it, but I'd like to hear from you guys on that matter. It's several points saved after all.

Okay, you definitely still have your '40k' hat on, sir!
Be prepared for a couple of these vindicators to become cabinet pieces; that was the fate of my quad mortar teams.