[Spoilers] HH Book 34 Pharos - Just as planned?

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**Thairne**

Last night I read the "dialogue" that happened between two important members.

Spoiler:

The part I am refering too is the talk Konrad "Noo I'm Night Haunter" Curze has with Sanguinius in his throne room.
While for the first time I felt some kind of sympathy for that wretch (while still despising his Legion) I believe he, as he claimed, was telling the truth.
For those that did not read the book yet and opened the spoilers - he basically nearly BEGGED to be understood by Sanguinius and was comparing himself to him.
Both being Angels, him being a sinister angel and Sanguinius being the bright, noble symbolic version. He also reiterated his view of fate and that only pain and suffering can be the result of everything yadda yadda.
And, I hate to admit, he had a point. It was written in such a way that one HAD to kind of agree with him since his paragraph long rants where only countered by one-liners by his opponent, but he made an important case.
He made the claim that the kidnapping of the primarchs was part of the Emperor's plan. How else did everyone end up on a planet that basically fit his character? Obviously sometimes it didn't went as planned, since Angron was rather supposed to be a martial Warrior, formed in combat and not a frothing berserker through the nails. Whatever Curze was supposed to be, he turned into the wretched version of that. Others, like Guilliman and Sanguinus turned out as planned.
He also claimed to have been in the warp and seen the Emperor's TRUE intent and plans. Well we know that is possible, since Horus did that in an earlier book.
He also had a point that if he can see his fate as can Sanguinus in a lesser form, it should have been easy for the Emperor to do the same.

His first claim matches one of the visions Horus was given when he was turned. The Emperor SAW what happened to his primarch genitor capsules... turned around and walked away. Up to this date, I considered that to be Chaos propaganda. This however lends some crecendence to it. It is a bit on conflict with the bit where Fulgrim was supposed to go the Khan's planet and Khan unto Chtonia, but as seen in Angron's case, things didn't always turn out. Or did they?

I've known the "just as planned"-theory about the Emperor basically planning the crusade, the heresy, the Imperial Truth so he can ascend to TRUE godhood via worship. Which might basically be the only chance to truly fight Chaos - basically the human Ynnead.
This sounds exactly like something he would do. Basically the Thunder Warriors story executed again, but on a galactic scale.

As so often, there is an opposing side... There is another short story in which the Emperor itself admitted (only in his thoughts) that he cannot see past the point when he teleports unto the Vengeful Spirit.
Is this what Curze could have seen? This would plug so many plotholes we've seen in the Emperor's errant behaviour. Treating his sons so STUPIDLY that noone can grasp it. The tolerance of the Cult Ommissiah which basically already extented unto him.
It was all planned and necessary.

For me, it makes sense. But I like the benevolent Emperor more than the scheming one, although it might be the only way to free humanity... which would be so, so grimdark.

**locarno24**

Sounds about right.

Spoiler:

Also:

Spoiler:

**Thairne**

But why would he protect them with a Gellar field if he'd WANT them stolen?
Yet another "just as planned"-thing? After all, leaving your most valuable asset without protection is rather fishy. So you have to protect it to simple seem like you don't want it to be stolen.
Another ruse.

Yes, that is definately part of his character. It has to be. If you live 30k years, you see people pass. First your parents, then your friends. Everyone you ever know will die. You can only take that so often until you realise that a single life, or in that timefrime, billion of lifes ultimately do not matter compared to the survival of an entire race and establishing an utopia free of Chaos.
It just makes sense.
Piecing this all together is hard through. 34 books and counting, not even thinking of the various other books and lore pieces... e.g. how does the Terminus Decree fit in this?

The Outcast Dead however torpedoes my interpretation. Since I figured he not only must have known, but actively must have planned for it to happen...
I guess I'll have to reform my train of throught a bit. Give him less of a "meticulously planned plan" role but more of a general guideline of events to happen to reach his ultimate goal.
Fits the Dr- Whovian timelime of fixed events that HAVE to happen which a presciencer can see and those blind spots like his battle with Horus which can not be prescienced at all or until the event is rather close.
Is not that how the Eldar Skein does work? Multiple threads, singling down as you approach the time the event happens?

My head hurts. Headcannon is in shambles.

**Formosa**

He didn't want them stolen, he fully intended to seed them on certain world's himself, the chaos gods just messed that up by taking them, magnus confirms that some ended up in the wrong place or wrong order.

Its also possible that the chaos gods didn't steal them at all and it was the emp himself that opened the portal and sent them away, knowing that he'd get them at a later date, otherwise why would the incubation chambers have geller fields at all.

**endlesswaltz123**

The guy is a master manipulator, what sociopath doesn't at least attempt to cover their tracks? The gellar field could be just that, if he plans the heresy and for his sons to learn of chaos, and then that he always knew of chaos, then they would ask questions as to why he didn't make an attempt to protect them? His answer is he did, with the field.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

What benefit would the Emperor get from letting the Primarchs be taken or from letting the Heresy happen? He's been in constant agony for 10,000 years.

I find the Chaos blinded his foresight to explain most of the things. Also, he could have planned to say, ascend to Godhood yet still not have been able to see the future. He may not have managed to find his ideal path.

**BrianDavion**

one thing to consider, just because a primarch ended up on a world seemingly perfect for them, doesn't nesscarily mean it's true. it comes back to the nature/nurture debate. are the primarchs perfect for their home world, or did their homeworld mold them perfectly?

**locarno24**

In a lot of cases, they did the molding of their homeworld, too.

Fits the Dr- Whovian timelime of fixed events that HAVE to happen which a presciencer can see and those blind spots like his battle with Horus which can not be prescienced at all or until the event is rather close.
Is not that how the Eldar Skein does work? Multiple threads, singling down as you approach the time the event happens?

Very much so. There are points that are unavoidable and visions which are immutable but which tend to be a 'snapshot' with little context, points that you can't see no matter what you do, and the rest is what Ahriman describes as 'looking up a tree trunk, seeing decisions branch and branch until it becomes too complex to follow and all you see is green.'

Given that his unhesitating response when asked how to manipulate destiny along a certain course was "burn down the tree", though, I feel that whilst he's undeniably effective, he's not reached the same level of delicacy that farseers have.

It's not just the chaos gods blinding the Emperor - there are also moments when precognition gets murky - according to Ahriman, Eldrad and The Emperor (and technically Paul Atreides in Dune) at different times, your ability to predict the future gets disrupted when the other actors in the event can also predict the future - because unless it's a fixed event, you're trying to hit a moving target; they forsee you forseeing them forseeing what will happen, and the number of possible outcomes increases exponentially.

With the Cabal, Eldrad, Kurze, Sanguinius, Erebus' coven and the Emperor all seeing their own visions of the future, the precognitive fatescape is getting pretty murky.