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Hey guys,

Probably a stupid question, but a friend and I are looking at playing a 6K game, 'Crons Vs IG.

What sized table is appropriate? And if its like a 6x6+ table, how do you reach the centre to get to models?

Table size depends on how many super-heavies & other big things you're using. Last Apoc game I played was on a 6x8 I think.

As for reaching the centre - carefully ;-) (but in reality how much stuff is going to survive long enough to get there...)

By 6k what do you mean? To me that means 6k per side for 12k total but I know some people do that differently, especially when they're talking about apocalypse, probably just to make the game sound bigger.

You could squeeze 6k total onto a 6x4 board depending on the armies and how much terrain you use, although 8x4 would be better.
For 12k I'd go for at least double that in whatever arrangement. 4x12, or 6x8 or even 12x6 if you have space.

I've never had a problem reaching the centre of a 6ft deep board and can stretch to 8ft deep but then I suppose that depends on your table height, your height and arm length.

In short bigger the better. The standard 6'x4' is already getting too crowded in standard game sizes(1500-1850 pts). Case of board sizes not growing as army sizes(and in particular footprint it takes) grows.

I would say it's less of a crucial you to worry how much you should rather than how big you can make it.

At that size, i would do a 4x8 or play on a 2 4x4s connected by a 2x2 bridge.

A piece of advice for bigger apocalypse games: agree with your opponent to not put objectives near the middle of whatever sized table you are using. It's a recipe for aggravation and broken models. I played a game on an 8 X 8 table with an objective smack in the exact center and nobody could reach it without climbing up on the table. Keep all the objectives within 3 feet of the table edges and you'll be fine.

IandI wrote:
A piece of advice for bigger apocalypse games: agree with your opponent to not put objectives near the middle of whatever sized table you are using. It's a recipe for aggravation and broken models. I played a game on an 8 X 8 table with an objective smack in the exact center and nobody could reach it without climbing up on the table. Keep all the objectives within 3 feet of the table edges and you'll be fine.

This, honestly done play on anything wider then 4 feet, less you want to knock over everything, you need to have places of access in order to actually play the game.

If you are spry and dont mind crawling, 2 4x6 tables, connected by 2 2x2 tiles and crawl under the table to stand in the middle.

You can never go wrong with a 4" width. 8x4, 10x4 and 12x4 are all fine for Apocalypse games. There's no reason for you to stretch across the table when a usual width is fine to play on IMO.

There will be 1 baneblade and 1 tesseract vault.

The markers not in the middle is a good idea, never thought of this.

Having a 4" wide table max is a good idea, i feel this would hamstring me a fair bit, I'm not a fan of playing against IG most of the time, it seems that it just boils down to trying to get to the very back corner lol. Does make sense for games of this size however.

You could buy those brushes they use for generals' tables and push models around. "GOOOOOOO!"

An important aspect of designing a game of Apocalypse is knowing the forces and forcing them to play against their strengths. In the example of Guard camping in the corner it's good to provide high incentive objectives or miniature missions just to get them to move a bit. There's nothing fun about playing against a refused flank on a 12ft board.
Apocalyptic games need to have a decent level of gentleman's agreement in order for them to be fun so I'd suggest sitting down with your list of models, a list of terrain and table sizes and constructing a game that will be fun for both of you.
It's nice to have some surprises so perhaps allow a 25% hidden sideboard but for the most part you want to balance superheavies, foc and power levels.
Also remember that a little bit of fluff goes a long way, try and otroduce some smaller missions, moral victories or fun things to do throughout the game. All to often I've played apocalyptic games where one side gets smashed on turns one or two from the opening barrages. If they then have a chance to consolidate their force and rescue the garrison force of guardsmen who are desperately trying to relay a comms message on a lonely flank then at least they are getting a chance to do something productive and heroic rather than just sweeping the rest of their models off with a dustpan.

I wish I had pictures of it, but we did a 10' by 8' by setting tables together, with some plywood stretched across. There was a 3'x3' (or so) hole in the middle that you had to crawl under to get to. You could easily reach areas that you couldn't from the side.

This was 3 vs 3, 30,000 points per side. We had a VERY strict "Don't fething lean on the tables, donkey-cave!" policy in place. Also, we're all good friends and treat each other's gak appropriately! Also, also, only one person was allowed in the hole at a time. Further, we called it a massive geyser created by orbital bombardment of the planet prior to the start of the game. Plate tectonics and gak. Science, bitch! If your flier or other model ended up in the "hole", it was immediately lost.

Good times.

Thinking back, we should have used clamps to keep the boards from moving/shifting when bumped. Live and learn!

Also, also, also, I'd never play on the above tables with a bunch of strangers with my precious 40k plasti-crack.

We did a 40K points HH game on a 10 x 6 board with a secondary board which was 4 x 4 Zone Mortalis. Worked out pretty well. Armies we seperated enough where the first turn didn't result in tons of units being taken off and there was room to maneuver and deep strike.

Awww man, the FW fortress walls. What an amazing chunk of resin.

Thanks guys! I think a proper conversation is in order with my mate. All the input is super helpful!

 Ifurita wrote:
Armies we seperated enough where the first turn didn't result in tons of units being taken off and there was room to maneuver and deep strike.

This this this. When you have tons of models shoulder to shoulder it's obviously going to result in easy times for any templates which means in turn more casualties. The 1st turn wipes would be less of a issue if boards weren't shoulder to shoulder walls.

Add in no room to manouver etc...

That issue is already in normal 40k and then you have people cramming in 4k per side apoc game on same boards...Brr.

 Portugal Jones wrote:
Awww man, the FW fortress walls. What an amazing chunk of resin.

RIGHT! shame they dont make it any more, probably because so few people bought it at the ungodly price tag it was.

Consider both hammer and anvil and a time limit instead of a turn limit.

The first because it means some ranged weapons will actually be out of range, the second because you'll find in a good apocalypse game that it's deadlocked right until one crucial model dies and the whole thing slides one way or the other.

Last one I did was 12x4" under that circumstance, and 'to the death' - the joy of total annihilation cannot be overstated

Another think you might wanna do if you are oding apoc, if people have titans or super heavy walkers, count those in AFTER peple reach the point limit, for example. Do 4k apoc games no super heavy walkers, once they reach the 4k point limit THEN add super heavy walkers on par with one another.

Nothing ruins an apoc game faster then the guy that brings a titan legion detatchment, posts up in one corner with 3 reavers and 2 warhounds loling the whole time as he blasts swaths of units off the board and no one can get near him.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Another think you might wanna do if you are oding apoc, if people have titans or super heavy walkers, count those in AFTER peple reach the point limit, for example. Do 4k apoc games no super heavy walkers, once they reach the 4k point limit THEN add super heavy walkers on par with one another.

Nothing ruins an apoc game faster then the guy that brings a titan legion detatchment, posts up in one corner with 3 reavers and 2 warhounds loling the whole time as he blasts swaths of units off the board and no one can get near him.

There is a lot of truth to this. Apoc is a considerably larger investment of time and effort for all involved - a good game can and should last 4-5 hours of play time with an hour around packing and unpacking. Be prepared for it so everyone has the same expectations.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Another think you might wanna do if you are oding apoc, if people have titans or super heavy walkers, count those in AFTER peple reach the point limit, for example. Do 4k apoc games no super heavy walkers, once they reach the 4k point limit THEN add super heavy walkers on par with one another.

Nothing ruins an apoc game faster then the guy that brings a titan legion detatchment, posts up in one corner with 3 reavers and 2 warhounds loling the whole time as he blasts swaths of units off the board and no one can get near him.

A more general form of this one is 'communicate about what people are bringing ahead of time'. It's important in normal 40k, it only gets more important in Apoc.

Also if you wanna save your self some headache, try not to bring pykers and if you do, just do leadership checks to cast spells and for denys.

Trust me, having a 6 on 6 games trying to deal with warp charge denies are a bloody nightmare

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Also if you wanna save your self some headache, try not to bring pykers and if you do, just do leadership checks to cast spells and for denys.

Trust me, having a 6 on 6 games trying to deal with warp charge denies are a bloody nightmare

Addendum to this: If you've got players who deal with loads of psychic powers on a regular basis it's less of a problem. I had a 4-on-3 game recently with twenty-odd Mastery levels on the table that went quite smoothly since we're used to dealing with 10+ ML in a normal game, if your playgroup normally brings single psykers as a laugh or leaves them behind a simplified set of rules would probably help.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Another think you might wanna do if you are oding apoc, if people have titans or super heavy walkers, count those in AFTER peple reach the point limit, for example. Do 4k apoc games no super heavy walkers, once they reach the 4k point limit THEN add super heavy walkers on par with one another.

Nothing ruins an apoc game faster then the guy that brings a titan legion detatchment, posts up in one corner with 3 reavers and 2 warhounds loling the whole time as he blasts swaths of units off the board and no one can get near him.

A more general form of this one is 'communicate about what people are bringing ahead of time'. It's important in normal 40k, it only gets more important in Apoc.

Agree with this 100%. If you take the approach that the goal of the game is more to have a great experience for everyone (large scale, nice terrain, painted armies) and less of "what can I bring that no one can kill and will absoutely wreck the rest of the battlefield", games will be more fun for everyone. It's a real downer to spend all the time getting set up only to take off all of your figures after turn 1 or have an opposing model that nothing on your side is capable of destroying.

There is nothing wrong with playing Floorhammer for any Apocalypse game, as the floor can be a huge surface to game on.

SJ

And the dog can help move the models around!

 kronk wrote:
And the dog can help move the models around!

Model moving and impromptu Titans are a time honored tradition for children and well trained pets!

SJ

We usually go for 3000points per table, but keep it 4' deep (i.e. put 6x4 tables next to each other).