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I like mixing up the games/ enemy armies I play, and saying "oh, you're fielding nids. Its ok, I wont use tau" is becoming a bit repetitive.
Are there any severely underpowered tau lists out there? I've tried avoiding battlesuits all together and it worked ok, but are there ways to bring a cool army theme that wont blast a weaker codex off the table?

Don't use riptides or stormsurges or supremacy armor.

Mobile Infantry!
Hammerheads and Sky rays escorting Fire Warriors in Devilfish, with Piranhas serving as rapid strike forces. Take Pathfinders as long-range support. Maybe add a squad or two of Crisis Suits for flavor. Your HQ should be a Cadre Fireblade or Ethereal.
Maybe some Barracudas or (T'au forbid) Razorsharks/Sun Sharks for air support?

I would say no more than a single Riptide of Stormsurge is the minimum requirement for writing "friendly" tau list.
And so is not using the most advantageous interpretation of Coordinate Firepower, i.e. the buffmander giving re-rolls to hit and ignores cover to whatever unit firing with him.

On the other hand, using tau flyers, stingwings and kroots would be a very, very friendly way of playing tau.

Even a single Riptide is insurmountable for the have-not lists, though. The durability is crazy.

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I would say no more than a single Riptide of Stormsurge is the minimum requirement for writing "friendly" tau list.
And so is not using the most advantageous interpretation of Coordinate Firepower, i.e. the buffmander giving re-rolls to hit and ignores cover to whatever unit firing with him.

According to the draft FAQ, Coordinated Firepower does not allowing sharing of special rules. It's just the +1BS and shared markerlights.

Alcibiades wrote:

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I would say no more than a single Riptide of Stormsurge is the minimum requirement for writing "friendly" tau list.
And so is not using the most advantageous interpretation of Coordinate Firepower, i.e. the buffmander giving re-rolls to hit and ignores cover to whatever unit firing with him.

According to the draft FAQ, Coordinated Firepower does not allowing sharing of special rules. It's just the +1BS and shared markerlights.

True.

However since it is strictly a "draft" and not the final official FAQ, players who love winning above all else choose to ignore the said ruling.

The other thing you can do is give the other guy more points. A lot more points in many cases.

The key to playing Tau in a friendly fashion, is to bring things that are fun, but hilariously de-optimized.

Pathfinders with their special rifles
Vespids
Razorshark strike fighter
Strike team with the guardian drone for 6++ on your basic troops
Purchasing seeker missiles on your vehicles and broadsides
Broadsides with heavy rail rifle. you can make 1 a Sargent so they are a character, and but precision shots on 5 or 6 via advanced targeting systems.

If you did all of the above, you'd probably get stomped, but you'll have a lot of fun doing it. None are useless or bad (except maybe vespids), just certainly not the best. And its fun lobbing out s8 ap4 blast gets hot shots from pathfinders, or s6ap1 rapid fire.
Razorshark dumping a s8ap4 large blast is silly fun,
Sniping out special chars with the broadsides on 5's to hit is also fun, and SUPER unexpected.

Just don't use the most powerful units. Use Kroot with Krootoxes (Krootoxen?) and Kroot Hounds. Use Fire Warriors in a Devilfish. Use a couple of Piranhas, but NOT as part of a formation. In fact, steer clear of formations altogether. Take a couple of Crisis Suits, but try some of the wargear you normally wouldn't take. Take a Broadside or two... with the rail gun option.

DON'T take Riptides, Stormsurges, formations, or 9 man strong Crisis Units w/18 Shield Drones and a variety of weapons with Target Lock/Split Fire ability.

It is not like the perceived weaker codexes are completely toothless. Tau have plenty of solid units, that aren't overpowering, yet aren't gak either. E.g. Skyrays, crisis suits, ethereal, kroot, Ghostkeels, piranha, fire warriors/Breachers, devilfish and I've heard that sniper drone teams aren't bad either.

Stealth suits, pathfinders and hammerheads seem to have some workable formations.

I think you can take a single Riptide without feeling guilty, one is not overpowering imo and quite different to the Riptide wing where they can pass their nova charges much more reliably.

Pity GW draft faq hurt ethereals and devilfish mounted squads so much though, the jink and aura change really stink. I love mech Tau, much more then the pacific rim route they have taken in design.

The key to playing any opponent in a fun game is to play the mission, not your opponent. Play Maelstrom and focus on just the cards. Talk some smack, laugh, actually have a good time being social. Doesn't matter which army you play or which army you face if your goal is to beat the game rather than your opponent.

SJ

My personal favorite thing to do is run the following deathstar.

FSE CAD
Farsight - Warlord

Commander - Fusion blaster, TL-Fusion Blaster, Stims, Fusion Blade, Talisman, Puretide Chip, Neuroweb System Jammer

Crisis Shav're - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, onegar gauntlet
Crisis Shas'ui - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, VRT
Crisis Shas'ui - Flamer, Flamer, Target Lock

Note: One of the latest supliments has stated FSE can take regular tau codex signiature systems. This is legal.

For the low, low, low price of 561 points you get a Dedicated Tau Assault unit that is statistically expected to kill an otherwise unharmed imperial knight if they charge it. Necron Reanimation Protocals got you down? Just ignore it when you sweeping advance them! Note: Do not try this on wraiths. Landraider with lightning claw terminators crashing into your gunline? Melta that sucker open then charge those poor bastards. Extra points for killing the enemy warlord in a challenge.

5 Str 5 AP2 INT5, 5 Str 8 Ap1 INT4 attacks and a Str 10Ap1 attack on the charge is going to ruin anything without a 3++'s day. Defensively you have a 2+/5++/5+++ T5, 4W model to tank anything AP3 or worse and a 3+/4++ W4 model to tank any AP2 <STR8.

It also has hit/run to avoid tar pitting and excellent shooting to soften units up before assaulting them. Sprinkle in counter-assault/Furious charge/monster hunter/tank hunter/stubborn as the situation requires. You also have three different models to accept challenges, allowing you great tactical flexibility in this area.

It will kill everything short of wraiths and things with thunder hammers. But you deepstrike in from reserve without scattering, so just don't place yourself next to those.

Just make sure to roll your reserves properly on turn 2, so you can multi-assault turn 3. This squad is 25-30% of your army now, they don't come in early you're screwed.

Just give the Riptides a walker profile!

Make the nova charge failing count as a D hit on the riptide?

 n0t_u wrote:
Make the nova charge failing count as a D hit on the riptide?

I dream of the riptide being a walker, receiving a "destroyed"-result on the gear it tries and fails to novacharge.

My friend plays Tau, and I am a new player, and by simply dropping to one Riptide and then us just picking armies normally we have good games...

It is worth pointing out that neither of us use super competitive lists tho! (I only own 3 RW bikes for example :L)

One is tricky but beatable, imo, but 3 would be truly scary!

materpillar wrote:
My personal favorite thing to do is run the following deathstar.

FSE CAD
Farsight - Warlord

Commander - Fusion blaster, TL-Fusion Blaster, Stims, Fusion Blade, Talisman, Puretide Chip, Neuroweb System Jammer

Crisis Shav're - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, onegar gauntlet
Crisis Shas'ui - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, VRT
Crisis Shas'ui - Flamer, Flamer, Target Lock

Note: One of the latest supliments has stated FSE can take regular tau codex signiature systems. This is legal.

For the low, low, low price of 561 points you get a Dedicated Tau Assault unit that is statistically expected to kill an otherwise unharmed imperial knight if they charge it. Necron Reanimation Protocals got you down? Just ignore it when you sweeping advance them! Note: Do not try this on wraiths. Landraider with lightning claw terminators crashing into your gunline? Melta that sucker open then charge those poor bastards. Extra points for killing the enemy warlord in a challenge.

5 Str 5 AP2 INT5, 5 Str 8 Ap1 INT4 attacks and a Str 10Ap1 attack on the charge is going to ruin anything without a 3++'s day. Defensively you have a 2+/5++/5+++ T5, 4W model to tank anything AP3 or worse and a 3+/4++ W4 model to tank any AP2 <STR8.

It also has hit/run to avoid tar pitting and excellent shooting to soften units up before assaulting them. Sprinkle in counter-assault/Furious charge/monster hunter/tank hunter/stubborn as the situation requires. You also have three different models to accept challenges, allowing you great tactical flexibility in this area.

It will kill everything short of wraiths and things with thunder hammers. But you deepstrike in from reserve without scattering, so just don't place yourself next to those.

Just make sure to roll your reserves properly on turn 2, so you can multi-assault turn 3. This squad is 25-30% of your army now, they don't come in early you're screwed.

Did you even read the OP -

Are there any severely underpowered tau lists out there? I've tried avoiding battlesuits all together and it worked ok, but are there ways to bring a cool army theme that wont blast a weaker codex off the table?

Yeah, I guess it boils down to avoiding a few key units - my opponents hate them even with the least optimal loadouts i can give them: Broadsides, riptides, crisis suits, kroot blobs, ghostkeel, piranhas, hammerheads, and basically anything with markerlights.

Actually that's not a bad idea - Avoid bringing any markerlights bar the skyray and pathfinder sniper teams! An ethereal lead mobile infantry list with no suits and minimal markerlights has got to be playable for anyone right?

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I would say no more than a single Riptide of Stormsurge is the minimum requirement for writing "friendly" tau list.
And so is not using the most advantageous interpretation of Coordinate Firepower, i.e. the buffmander giving re-rolls to hit and ignores cover to whatever unit firing with him.

According to the draft FAQ, Coordinated Firepower does not allowing sharing of special rules. It's just the +1BS and shared markerlights.

True.

However since it is strictly a "draft" and not the final official FAQ, players who love winning above all else choose to ignore the said ruling.

Pretty sure that was not draft and is Errata...

 hippyjr wrote:
Yeah, I guess it boils down to avoiding a few key units - my opponents hate them even with the least optimal loadouts i can give them: Broadsides, riptides, crisis suits, kroot blobs, ghostkeel, piranhas, hammerheads, and basically anything with markerlights.

Actually that's not a bad idea - Avoid bringing any markerlights bar the skyray and pathfinder sniper teams! An ethereal lead mobile infantry list with no suits and minimal markerlights has got to be playable for anyone right?

Err, so your opponents don't want you to bring most of the the iconic Tau units, regardless of balance? If they have an issue with kroot, hammerheads and marker lights, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they might just not like Tau in general. Talking it out with people before a game to set out what yous are looking for is one thing, but this is another level.

Limiting the Tau codex to min/no markerlights, no suits, no kroot and tanks bar skyrays (our best tank oddly enough), does not leave you with much at all.

materpillar wrote:
My personal favorite thing to do is run the following deathstar.

FSE CAD
Farsight - Warlord

Commander - Fusion blaster, TL-Fusion Blaster, Stims, Fusion Blade, Talisman, Puretide Chip, Neuroweb System Jammer

Crisis Shav're - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, onegar gauntlet
Crisis Shas'ui - fusion blaster, fusion blaster, VRT
Crisis Shas'ui - Flamer, Flamer, Target Lock

Note: One of the latest supliments has stated FSE can take regular tau codex signiature systems. This is legal.

For the low, low, low price of 561 points you get a Dedicated Tau Assault unit that is statistically expected to kill an otherwise unharmed imperial knight if they charge it. Necron Reanimation Protocals got you down? Just ignore it when you sweeping advance them! Note: Do not try this on wraiths. Landraider with lightning claw terminators crashing into your gunline? Melta that sucker open then charge those poor bastards. Extra points for killing the enemy warlord in a challenge.

5 Str 5 AP2 INT5, 5 Str 8 Ap1 INT4 attacks and a Str 10Ap1 attack on the charge is going to ruin anything without a 3++'s day. Defensively you have a 2+/5++/5+++ T5, 4W model to tank anything AP3 or worse and a 3+/4++ W4 model to tank any AP2 <STR8.

It also has hit/run to avoid tar pitting and excellent shooting to soften units up before assaulting them. Sprinkle in counter-assault/Furious charge/monster hunter/tank hunter/stubborn as the situation requires. You also have three different models to accept challenges, allowing you great tactical flexibility in this area.

It will kill everything short of wraiths and things with thunder hammers. But you deepstrike in from reserve without scattering, so just don't place yourself next to those.

Just make sure to roll your reserves properly on turn 2, so you can multi-assault turn 3. This squad is 25-30% of your army now, they don't come in early you're screwed.

While off topic, the Command Squad formations let's you take Farsight with Bodyguard Crisis, which auto-LoS! for some Wound shenanigans.

SJ

 Mr Morden wrote:
Did you even read the OP -

Are there any severely underpowered tau lists out there? I've tried avoiding battlesuits all together and it worked ok, but are there ways to bring a cool army theme that wont blast a weaker codex off the table?

Yes, actually I did. He asks specifically for a cool army list idea that, is underpowered and won't blast a weaker codex off the table. That is what he wants. He has mentioned that he tried not using suits at all, and it didn't work. He didn't specify no suits in recommendations, he said personally he hasn't found a list with suits in it that isn't overbearing.

Therefore I presented him with a hilariously overpriced unit whose primary goal is to multi-assault anything it can get its hands on. It costs 9 points less than a riptide wing (all with IA and EWA)! It also acts almost completely differently than any tau force usually fielded.

I mean if you think those suits are "too shooty" just drop all the guns from all the suits. It'll have a plasma rifle and TL-FB only then. Personally I think that takes the unit from kinda stupid fun to insultingly unoptimized, but your mileage may very.


The answer to making a fun tau list to play against isn't dropping all suits. Then you just result in an incredibly stationary gunline which is even less fun to play against. Or you get a million devilfishes which opponents will struggle to kill because of their 3+ jink. I play in a very soft meta where 1 riptide is effectively immortal. Hell the triple Razorshark formation devastates people. From my experience wasting 500+ points like this will seriously handicap your starting force to the point where the opponent should be able to overrun your army (if they still struggle run a couple of razorsharks so the game basically starts 1000 vs 2000 points for the first couple turns). Then you can deepstrike in and have fun killing their backline in hilarious fashion while they squish yours. Everyone kills stuff, everyone has fun. You can even do it with suits!

 hippyjr wrote:
Yeah, I guess it boils down to avoiding a few key units - my opponents hate them even with the least optimal loadouts i can give them: Broadsides, riptides, crisis suits, kroot blobs, ghostkeel, piranhas, hammerheads, and basically anything with markerlights.

Actually that's not a bad idea - Avoid bringing any markerlights bar the skyray and pathfinder sniper teams! An ethereal lead mobile infantry list with no suits and minimal markerlights has got to be playable for anyone right?

Again I have a similar meta to yours. In my personal experience just fire warriors in devilfish with an ethereal is going to get them complaining. The moment you triple tap a squad to death they're going to complain. I highly recommend you completely ignore their recommendations for units you shouldn't play. They will literally complain about anything you field.Seriosuly you wipe a TAC squad with Vespid they're going to call Vespid overpowered. Instead I'd take the following steps.
1) Don't bring markerlights. Doing so seriously handicaps your army and they're one of the most complained about things
2) Pay attention to which of your units are actually oppressive on the table to your opponents and which units your opponents can somewhat handle. Don't listen to your opponents when they tell you what not to bring. You know your army better than they do. Once you've identified what they struggle against don't bring that. Bring what they can effectively deal with.
3) Learn what your opponent's strengths are and do your best to list tailor your army to be weaker against this. For example, if your opponent really likes landraiders, completely forget all fusion blasters and railguns. So at worst your opponent will have an unkillable landraider rolling around all game to have fun with.

My meta is extremely marine heavy. It is full of foot slogging TAC units, vindicator tanks, terminators and dreadnought. My favorite list at 2K is roughly the following

Tau Cad
Farsight - Warlord

Riptide - Heavy Burst Cannon, Stims, SMS
-> I really like my riptide. With this loadout and minimal markerlight support it's basically guaranteed to not make its points back while shooting at 3+ armor saves all game. Could easily be dropped for a weaker list. But it isn't really oppressive against my opponents even though they struggle to kill it. It struggles to kill them.

Ghostkeel - Cyclic Ion Raker, TL-Fusion Blaster
-> Again I really love how this unit looks. Note: this is the only FB in my list outside of my assault star. Basically I cannot stop a landraider from hitting my lines. I'd probably run this as a burst cannon, but I glued on the FB and I prefer WYSIWYG if possible. Model usually ends up getting killed fairly quickly.

Strike Team - 12x + Devilfish w/ SMS, Sensor Spines, Disruption Pod
Strike Team - 5x
-> My "gunline". Most frequently the devilfish is used to flee the area when the enemy runs into it turn 3ish

Skyray - SMS, Disruption Pod
-> Primary markerlight source. Not really enough to remove cover. Frequently just boosts its own ballistic skill.

Farsight Cad
Commander - Fusion Blaster, TL-Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blades, Stims, Iridium, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Talisman, Neuroweb Jammer (

Kroot - 10x w/ snipers
-> easy squad for my opponent to kill. They're kinda flexible, but they're primarily here to get shot off the table

Crisis Team 3x members - 2x Fusion Blasters, 2x Fusion Blasters w/ VRT, 2x Flamer w/ target lock

Air Superiority Cadre - 3x Razorsharks with Missile Pod
-> other markerlight source. Though you can easily forget to do that or simply run them in a CAD. Again, extremely weak against 3+ saves. Can get shot down with bolt guns.

Vindicare Assassin
-> basically a waste of 150 points. I often consider this to be donating First blood to my opponents if they have even a couple of lascannons. The rules are just so cool though.


This army starts with over 900 points in reserve. What's left on the table struggles greatly against AV13 and is fairly short ranged. This will give my opponents at least a turn or two to quickly advance on my position while only receiving mild return fire. Basically my starting position of firewarriors, ghostkeel, kroot, riptide and skyray are going to get hit hard. Likely only my riptide and another squad will survive in a desperate retreat. Then my reserves will show up and my deathball will start killing vulnerable stuff while the rest of my army scoots around to try and not die while claiming objectives. I kill stuff, my opponent kills stuff. Hopefully we both have fun.

I don't post that list as a recommendation of what to run exactly, I post that to show how I've tried to list tailor to be weaker to my metagame. For instance if I play against DE or Tyranids, most of the SMS will disappear from my list. Yet at the same time still playing with models I enjoy (lots of suits/riptide). I also really really enjoy completely killing entire squads in one turn (something my opponents do not), so I gave myself a way to do that which will result in the least amount of complaints (assaulting with tau after turn 3).

 Bryan01 wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
Yeah, I guess it boils down to avoiding a few key units - my opponents hate them even with the least optimal loadouts i can give them: Broadsides, riptides, crisis suits, kroot blobs, ghostkeel, piranhas, hammerheads, and basically anything with markerlights.

Actually that's not a bad idea - Avoid bringing any markerlights bar the skyray and pathfinder sniper teams! An ethereal lead mobile infantry list with no suits and minimal markerlights has got to be playable for anyone right?

Err, so your opponents don't want you to bring most of the the iconic Tau units, regardless of balance? If they have an issue with kroot, hammerheads and marker lights, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they might just not like Tau in general. Talking it out with people before a game to set out what yous are looking for is one thing, but this is another level.

Limiting the Tau codex to min/no markerlights, no suits, no kroot and tanks bar skyrays (our best tank oddly enough), does not leave you with much at all.

Not quite, what I meant to say is that they are fine playing those units but bad past experiences has taught them which ones have the most bite, so to speak. I would include at least a few of these units even in a friendly army. Something revolving around mobile fire warriors,, and outflanking kroot, ethereal/fireblade leaders, hammerheads and skyrays in the heavy slot, rail rifle pathfinders and piranhas for fast and maaaaybe stealth teams for elites.

try 2 full units of breachers in devilfish with an Ethereal HQ, and a melee crisis unit - crisis shas'vre with PEN Chip and a bunch of naked crisis suits as tax, then take whatever else you want. That way, the core of your army has to get close to be effective.

Oh, and let any tyranid psyker able to take it take Paroxysm. My regular opponent loved to make my Stormsurge BS0 with it, though in hindsight, targeting the markerlights or my mark'o would have been more effective.

 hippyjr wrote:
I like mixing up the games/ enemy armies I play, and saying "oh, you're fielding nids. Its ok, I wont use tau" is becoming a bit repetitive.
Are there any severely underpowered tau lists out there? I've tried avoiding battlesuits all together and it worked ok, but are there ways to bring a cool army theme that wont blast a weaker codex off the table?

I have had a Tau friend for years who plays a list which absolutely NOBODY has a problem with playing against, but which when played well can surprise almost anyone. He calls it the "Close to Close Combat Tau list".

Basically, he runs a list entirely composed of Breachers rolling in devilfish, Stealth suits (OSC if he's going more competitive), piranha with Fusion guns and burst cannons, pathfinders, and a few fusion or flamer crisis teams. the army is all about careful positioning to do maximum damage at short range, and he treats the army like a high-initiative melee army, just using overwatch with supporting fire instead of actual melee attacks.

Suddenly, lists like Orks Nids and CSM don't have nearly as gakky a time because they have actions they can take against the tau, there's real action in all phases of the game not just shooting, and the usual Tau hard-counters like invisible deathstar lists find themselves chasing after a highly mobile force that can turn on them and unleash huge amounts of damage if they fail their defensive spells for a turn.

it's not something you see often, because I've found about 90% of tau players either got into the army because "hey i like being safe, just sitting back and shooting, what army should I play" or "Oh man I really like those gundams, I want to field an army around those" but it is actually a wickedly fun army build.

 hippyjr wrote:
I like mixing up the games/ enemy armies I play, and saying "oh, you're fielding nids. Its ok, I wont use tau" is becoming a bit repetitive.
Are there any severely underpowered tau lists out there? I've tried avoiding battlesuits all together and it worked ok, but are there ways to bring a cool army theme that wont blast a weaker codex off the table?

Well the Tau Empire is my main army. it is the one i probably know better than any other, have more practice with and feel most confident winning with.

The Units I find exceptionally underrated that won't cause groans from opponents who are pleasantly surprised to see them:

Snipr Drone teams. Extremely useful. The Firesight marksmen are GREAT markerlight sources, protected by a large drone unit that is tough and can shoot like crazy wit hthe help of the Ethereal.

The Ethereal. Rarely fielded. Field him. Especially Aun'Va who is even less frequently fielded.

Kroot Carnivores have a fun formation now that is of marginal usefulness. the combination of the kroot and Stingwings is pretty cool (it's i nthe Kau'Yon book I think) though and here again, it packs a lot of puunch without FEELING like a chore to face.

the Bomber is a really great unit. it does work and while some jets will boast some advantages, it is an all around very solid choice. it doesnt get seen much either but the Formation for Flyers i nthe Tau Codex could make for a unique experience with opponents.

One other thing I recommend. the Tau Gunfort is pretty darn good if you wanted to create a Fire Warrior based force.i have won two tournaments this year, using fireWarriors led by Cadre Fireblades and buffed by ethereals alongside the sniper Drones, ensconces and protected by the Tidewall Gunfort. it is a fun Fortification, it's visually pleasing and the opponetn here again gets to face something that isnt as much the "usual".

if youre going to use Crisis teams, just use Farsight teams and dont arm them with anything. Just drop them in and use them to snag objectives and since they are obsec they are good at it. That way you can make use of your suits without dominating people with the suits themselves.

I can share the list i used if you wanted to see it. But those are just some genral ideas. The road less trevelled is fun. here is some more info from my blog:

http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2016/08/montka-and-farsight-enclaves-toolbox.html

This one in particular might intrigue you, as it uses an infrequently used Formation, albeit suits are invovled:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2016/04/tau-empire-infiltration-cadre.html

Is anyone really complaining about regular suits? They are doubled out by krak missiles. Hardly bastions of durability.

Martel732 wrote:
Is anyone really complaining about regular suits? They are doubled out by krak missiles. Hardly bastions of durability.

I've had opponents complain about them before. Usually this is as a result of them deep striking in and obliterating a unit with markerlight support. It's fairly easy to pick off poorly positioned units like this before using your assault jump to break LOS with the squads holding lascannons or krak missiles. The seeming lack of counterplay to this deepstriking unit can frustrate some.

Say your opponent only has one squad of devastators with missile launchers left unsupported by the rest of the TAC squads that have run towards the tau gunline. The crisis suits arrive and utterly obliterate the devastator squad. Now there isn't much left on the table to effectively deal with the crisis team. Cue complaints about said crisis teams as they mow through the remaining units around them relatively unopposed.

That's cries of cheese caused by a base squad of crisis teams, not even something like a retaliation cadre, tanking wounds with an iridium armor commander, or, heaven forbid, an actual buffmander. I've had my army described as cheesy for deep striking single crisis suits next to my stealth teams that just outflanked with homing beacons to prevent said crisis teams from scattering. I've had that Farsight assault ball described as cheesy to me before, after it deepstruck in and destroyed a squad of leman russ tanks.

That's some bad play there. Of course this precisely why i don't have a backfield with ba. Your suits will get one shot more than likely.