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So, my friend and I are just getting started in 40K. He bought the Dark Vengeance box and has a 500 point Chaos Space Marine army currently, with some plans for small expansion already. I decided I wanted to play Orks, despite hearing they are weak in 7th. Several told me to buy what I was interested in, what looked cool to me. At the moment I have 23 ork boyz (random ebay purchase) and Ghazghkull Thraka. Now I have read in several places not to even consider Thraka unless you're running a huge army - due to his point cost. I am looking to have fun with 40K - not worried about being super competitive at the moment. On the other hand, I would really appreciate some direction on how to build this into a 500-600 point army (for learning) that has decent opportunities for pointed expansion in the near future.

1. What figures/vehicles would you recommend buying next and how would you suggest positioning them (with what I currently have) for a 500 point game?
2. Any advice on future expansion to 750?

I am usually only online in the evenings, so don't mistake my absence for rudeness! All help is truly appreciated - Thank you in advance! - Justin

Depends on how you want to play. If you want to play a horde buy some more boyz if you want to play a fast army pick up a couple trukkz and some bikes. If you want to go heavy then get some Mega Nobz which would probably go well with your ghaz model.

Basically depends on what you want to do. Regardless though you can't go wrong with more boyz for the moment.

Ork's are not the strongest army right now but as someone who plays against them often, boys before toys is something to live by. most of your army is fragile and kinda over costed, so keep things cheap and multiple. Burna and lootas are still solid, your artillery are pretty good and you have a decent flyer core. also always take a nob and PK

I'm going to have to disagree with HoD on this point:

Ork fliers probably aren't worth it. Fragile as feth and horrible BS.

Artillery are definitely worth it.

Ork bikers are definitely one of the better units in the codex.

Don't skimp on the knobs with power klaws.

Trukks may be worth it.

Battlewagons, imho, are definitely worth it.

A trick that I saw used once against me, which I am still impressed by, is burna boyz + battlewagon.

Ghazzy can be used as a megaboss with Da Lukky Stikk. Half the price and better in most cases. There are several ways of running a megaboss.

1. The most common is stick him in a battlewagon or a trukk, but i'd personally suggest a battlewagon in this case, accompanied by a bunch of boyz with a pk nob and a little mek to eat challenges. It's an interesting option but vehicles are very vulnerable in this edition and battlewagons are not that cheap.
2. Another option is to run him in a 30-strong footslogging blob. Don't think you can catch anyone with it as they're super slow with SNP but it's a solid obstacle that adds it's value in a form of being a roadblock and objective secured for better scoring.
3. Use him in a unit of mek gunz, lootas or tankbustas - this way they get slow and purposeful, can move and shoot. And in case of mek gunz, the boss becomes t7 against shooting.
4. Use him with any unit you want with a bunker + escape hatch. This way, he can start closer to the enemy and be a threat from turn 2.

With what little you have right now, you can go in any direction. You should decide which path to take. You can run a mass footslogging list - either an old greentide, new greentide or extreme msu, mass mech infantry list, mech elite infantry (meganobz) list, gunline, walker spam, mass bikes or some combinations of the above. Though, keep in mind that mixing options doesn't always work great cause orks are kinda lacking right now and rely on redundancy.

Every list has it's pros and cons. For example, mass mech infantry will most likely be boyz in trukks + manz missiles in trukks, probably a wagon or two with boyz and boss, maybe some tankbustas. It's very fast and can wreck face but at the same time also very fragile. A walker spam list looks cool, is also fun to play but is rock-paper-scissors with crappy rocks, torn paper and blunt scissors. Though, it becomes way better when you include a broken forgeworld stompa...probably, every ork list does.

My personal preference is an elite mech list right now - bully boyz (formation of 3 units of 5 meganobz that get fearless and ws5) in either trukks or gunwagons when we decide to allow forgeworld - backed up by a unit of trukkboyz, tankbustas in a trukk, lobbas, lootas + grots. Biker boss with biker dok either join a 30-strong footslogging unit or a 3-strong unit of koptas. I also run Voidshield Generator. It helps to keep your trukks alive. Don't think i'd have much chances in our competitive meta without it.

Anywayz, it's hard to suggest something specific before you choose the main theme of your army. the only things that are universal in almost every list are lobbas and lootas or tankbustas.

I think you can do well with a core of boys and grot mobs.
I'd add to that a few small units kept to a low points cost.
A Mek gun, Wartrakk, Deff kopta are all 30 points starting cost.
In such a low point game you could do well with just starting sized units, for several units. Lootas, Burnaboys,tank bustas can do well enough for you at starting size they shouldn't have to much enemy strength to compete with.
I'd take at lease 19 gretchen in a mob still about 60 points.
HQ's hardly matter. your army can very well win your games for you. So pick an HQ you like that doesn't cost too large a pile of teef.
A weird boy, while not magnificent is only 45 points.
Heck even a single killa kan is only 50 points .
I guess if it were me I'd build a horde as best I could and play on a 4X4 table.

for slowly expanding your army, i would say get a trukk, a nob or 3 (if your boys didnt come with any), and something you consider fun. deffkoptas can be found cheap on ebay and TL rokkit launchas are nothing to sneeze at! and i agree that ghazzy can be used as a warboss with mega armor just fine, though anybody in mega armor is going to slow down his unit so maybe stick him in the trukk.

At 500 points, building on what you have now, I would recommend running something like this:

Warboss ('eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota, Da Lucky Stikk)
20 Slugga Boyz (Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota)
20 Slugga Boyz (Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota)
10 Gretchin (Runtherd)

You have points left over for more Boyz, some Big Shootas or Rokkits.

Obtaining more Boyz and Gretchin is easy enough, just check the Dakka Swap Shop, eBay, or your FLGS.

The downside to Mega Armour is that you cannot run in the Shooting phase; without transports, your units most definitely want to be running. Consider taking only 'eavy Armour, which offers less protection, but is also cheaper and allows your Warboss to run.

The next upgrade I would recommend beyond this core is acquiring some Trukks. For 35 points, they will help your Boys get into the fight faster. Assuming they don't explode.

The other advice already mentioned is sound. Good units are Warbikers, Tankbustas, Mega Nobs (MANZ), Deffkoptas, and Mek Gunz. Lootas can be fun. Other units are situational.

Good luck!

Juddhammer wrote:
I decided I wanted to play Orks, despite hearing they are weak in 7th. Several told me to buy what I was interested in, what looked cool to me.

I am looking to have fun with 40K - not worried about being super competitive at the moment.

If you're keen on Orks, never forget these two things. If you're playing Orks because you love them, and you are fine with your army frequently obliterating itself with the assorted mishaps they fall prone to, then you're good to go. If you have any inclination at all to try and get competitive with them, I'd recommend a different army, or you're just going to end up writing a series of angry, bitter posts on here about how Orks are unmitigated garbage etc.

This sounds a bit negative, but if you get the mindset right, Orks are the best army in the world. They're unreliable, unpredictable, and ridiculous, but every once in a while the dice gods smile on you and you'll pull off something improbably spectacular.

My advice would be to read up on the different Ork clans; each has its own vibe, and if one of them jumps out as particularly appealing, it can be a good framework for theming your army.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Ork's are not the strongest army right now but as someone who plays against them often, boys before toys is something to live by. most of your army is fragile and kinda over costed, so keep things cheap and multiple. Burna and lootas are still solid, your artillery are pretty good and you have a decent flyer core. also always take a nob and PK

Ignore almost everything this guy just said.

Burnas are utter garbage. Boyz before toyz used to work, but now its Warbikers before pretty much everything. He is right out entire army is fragile and over priced though, our artillery is ok, not great but ok and HOLY CHRIST did you just say our flyers are decent? You sir.....I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

As I was saying…

 Nazrak wrote:
As I was saying…

Yep, as your snarky comment was saying. Orks used to be good Naz, they had a place at Tournaments and stood a good chance. This last codex is an abomination and has ruined a lot of peoples faith in GW. Sorry to pop your bubble but people pick up armies because they like they and how they feel, but they usually want them to also be competitive...you know...because we are playing a competitive game.

Burnas are utter garbage

No there not. And in a 500 point game they might be one of the better units to pick. His friend is playing chaos from the DV set, if I read it right. That means cultists. Burnas should mean cultist removal.

I know mine have killed loads of space wolves. But 10 Burnas will do that.

 warhead01 wrote:

Burnas are utter garbage

No there not. And in a 500 point game they might be one of the better units to pick. His friend is playing chaos from the DV set, if I read it right. That means cultists. Burnas should mean cultist removal.

I know mine have killed loads of space wolves. But 10 Burnas will do that.

Burnas are 16pt a model, they have no benefits over an ork boy AT ALL beyond carrying around a flamer that you can choose to not fire and use in the CC phase as a power sword.

Unless you buy them a Battlewagon for 110pt they WILL DIE! 160pts for 10 of them crammed into a trukk = easy target. 6+ armor means they die ridiculously quick. Overall this unit is a trap unit, it looks good on paper but it won't survive to do its job, unless your playing some seriously bad players.

For 2pts more per model you can get Warbikers who are T5 4+ armor and come with a S5AP5 Assault 3 TL weapon. Far better then the Burna boy will ever be.

While you have some good points I think your not putting it into the context of a 500 point list. Again, if his friends army is built mostly from the DV starter set that tells us a little about what he should be expecting to face. If the Ork list is built using seveal low points cost units it should outnumber and "out gun" the chaos force. It's all a question of force construction. Yes burnas will die horribly but that doesn't mean that the explode upon contact with the table. If the Ork force is a mix of units then the burnas are just one choice of several when it comes to Chaos choosing who to shoot at or assault. Burnas are fairly brilliant. they don't roll to hit and they have loads of burnas in the unit. And still have 2 attack each.
I'm not saying they're the best thing ever but in 500 points They may turn out to be really really good.
My own zoom around the board in a trukk and I like to use 2 mobs like that. they just drive around cooking targets. Or get out and set up to take charge, because wall of death.
I realize you have several years experience with 40K. I'm not discounting that. The OP said they are starting out. that to me means they will have their own "meta". Which could very well be such that several other wise overlooked ork units might do very well. Obviously as their games go up in points some stuff will change.
You mention warbikers, I'd take them. in 500 point I'd take maybe 3 of them. They do cost less points than burnas but I'd make room of all the units I really wanted.
(I guess I look at it another way. at super close range what would you rather have 5 burna boys or 10 shoot boys?
While ,sure we'd all like more bodies for the assault. What if you could beat the other unit with just your shooting and not having to roll to hit. It could happen. )
Heck, I don't know the points off the top of my head but the ork get started box might be really good in 500 points with the pile on da pain rule.

Dude, could you maybe sit out like one thread on Orks without pouring your scornbucket out all over everything anyone else says? We get it, you hate everything about the Orks so maybe change the record; it's getting pretty tiresome. Some of us are just having a fine time playing our games with an army we're into without working ourselves into a frothing rage about something that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter a great deal. If you want to get hyper-competitive about a game that was never intended to be so, go for it, but maybe give it a rest once in a while instead of jumping down people's throats.

 Nazrak wrote:
Dude, could you maybe sit out like one thread on Orks without pouring your scornbucket out all over everything anyone else says? We get it, you hate everything about the Orks so maybe change the record; it's getting pretty tiresome. Some of us are just having a fine time playing our games with an army we're into without working ourselves into a frothing rage about something that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter a great deal. If you want to get hyper-competitive about a game that was never intended to be so, go for it, but maybe give it a rest once in a while instead of jumping down people's throats.

Naz that is your problem. Since I am not conforming to your view of orks then I must be wrong and I must be working myself into a "Frothing rage" when I correctly point out how bad they are compared to other factions.

I get it, you like the childish aspect of orks, hell I do to. But years ago, back in 4th and into 5th edition and into 6th they were a solid army that you could compete with against every other army. Then GW realized they hadn't made a codex for orks in 6 years so they finally gave us a new one and poof we went from good to garbage in a single night.

Then to add salt into the wounds of a lot of older gamers they took Eldar, Tau, SM, Necrons, KDK, SW, DA and made them significantly better in every way. Ok maybe that was an accident of code release.

Well no, because they we get the Waaagh Supplement, the Waaagh supplement V2.0 and the new Ork plane that was all released after the Power Creep kicked into gear. None of those releases are good. The formations they gave us weren't useful really. Most of them could have been useful, but at the last second someone thought "hmm I don't want orks to be good so....." And then hit everything with the nerf stick (which they had to fix after breaking it making the Ork Codex originally).

I tend to be a realist now in this game and if this guy wants to play against his buddy in a non-competitive environment then I would refer him to my 1st post, YOU were the one who came in after the fact with snarky comments so please maybe take your own advice.

Sorry man, I'm not trying to cause a big row here. Obv we're not on the same page but I think you could maybe ease off on the unrelenting negativity – particularly when it comes to people new to the game.

We should probably get on topic, which is helping a newbie select a decent and reasonably priced starter army.

 Cleatus wrote:
At 500 points, building on what you have now, I would recommend running something like this:

Warboss ('eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota, Da Lucky Stikk)
20 Slugga Boyz (Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota)
20 Slugga Boyz (Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Shoota)
10 Gretchin (Runtherd)

You have points left over for more Boyz, some Big Shootas or Rokkits.

Obtaining more Boyz and Gretchin is easy enough, just check the Dakka Swap Shop, eBay, or your FLGS.

The downside to Mega Armour is that you cannot run in the Shooting phase; without transports, your units most definitely want to be running. Consider taking only 'eavy Armour, which offers less protection, but is also cheaper and allows your Warboss to run.

The next upgrade I would recommend beyond this core is acquiring some Trukks. For 35 points, they will help your Boys get into the fight faster. Assuming they don't explode.

The other advice already mentioned is sound. Good units are Warbikers, Tankbustas, Mega Nobs (MANZ), Deffkoptas, and Mek Gunz. Lootas can be fun. Other units are situational.

Good luck!

This good advice. A good core of boyz and a warboss is going to be the core of your army for a long time to come. Additionally, they are abundant on ebay - look for 'assault on black reach' boyz and warboss. They are cheap, if you can find them, out of a fairly old box. Regardless, boyz are abundant.

Plus, the nice thing about orks is most of their unit are just boyz + something. Lootas are boyz + deffgun. Tankbustas are boyz + rokkits. Burnas are boyz + flamethrower. Etc, etc.

I enjoy deff dreads a great deal, perhaps too much, and though I'll admit they aren't a very strong choice, the look fantastic.

Nobz are also a good starting unit - if only for the nobz to lead boyz units. Nobz squads can still be fun. You can find 'stormclaw' nobz (and grots and killa kans) on ebay for a decent bundle deal.

Deffkoptas (also from assault on black reach) are a solid smaller game unit, too. Fast, tough, decent shooting.

But like cleatus said, you can't go wrong with a starter ork army of a bunch of boyz and a warboss.

Trukks can be useful, but you honestly need multiple to be effective, and their ($) cost can add up fast. To just have a fun to play, small, starter list, nothing wrong with boyz, nobz, warboss, maybe some deffkoptas.

To expand from there, some ranged support would be useful, lootas, tankbustas are both good options. The loota box is a great deal, as it comes with 5x loota and burna weapon sets, so if you have spare boyz (you should!) you can make 5 of each. [side note: while burnas are not a top-tier unit, I personally have had good experiences with them in low point or casual or beginner games. May as well try them if you have the bits!] Official tankbusta models are ~$5 apiece, but just take rokkit launchers from the basic boyz box, slap them on a boy, and you've got a perfectly adequate tankbusta.

mek gunz are a solid choice as well. Flash gitz are fun models and can be surprisingly effective.

Get yourself some plastic deffkopta's these are the best unit in the codex at low point values. Run them in units of 1 and use them to pick objectives, kill vehicles or even draw over watch fire away from your blobs.


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And get yourself some loota's. These things have their issues ( they can't stand being shot ) but they will be horrible effective vs most things in low point games.

And while I hate to discourage tactics on new players and their new armies, ghaz truly is not a good option for smaller points.

For one thing, he's 40% of your army list on his own, and he's honestly not much more effective than a basic warboss that's less than half his cost.

Somewhat more damning is the fact this his armor makes him unable to run, which slows him and whatever unit he is attached to, which is a problem when you've got an entire battlefield to cross to get stuck in.

Yet, if he ever did make it combat, he could certainly throttle some space marines.

If you want a kick ass warlord and use the ghazz model run him as a MEGA armoured warbozz + lucky stick.
Its expensive but not Ghazz expensive and will do better vs all non ap 2 weapons.

The plastic deffkoptas are really nice models (although I'd recommend magnetising the rotors to stop them snapping off), and they can be really handy in game.

I have found that my Flash Gitz holed up in their battlewagon do very well. This especially true when you have other fast units that are making nuisance of themselves. Stand out units IMHO are:
MANZ with either Mad Dok or Mega Armored Warboss, Mek Gunz, Big Mek with Kustom Force Field, Tankbustas, Deff Koptas, and Skorcha Wartrakks. If you want to run Boyz in Trukks definitely take 'eavy armor and a boss pole Nob so they can survive explosions and Mob Rule. Just my two cents.

Alright guys, I am sorry to do a mass "Thank you" but that's a lot to digest and respond to! That's cool though, so a definite thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

After all the responses, I am thinking about buying

1. A 10-pack of gretchin, more random ebay boyz, and a 5-pack of nobz for the time being and then expanding with Meganobz, mek guns, trukks later.
(Can I run a nob with boss pole and PK with 2 units of boyz (1 each) and the other 3 nobs with Ghaz?)

Or, just buying the "start collecting" set to add 10 more boyz, 5 nobz, plus a Painboy and Deff Dread.

Thanks again! -Justin


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And would I be making a mistake by not taking any gretchin? (SC box does not contain any...)

Juddhammer wrote:
Alright guys, I am sorry to do a mass "Thank you" but that's a lot to digest and respond to! That's cool though, so a definite thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

After all the responses, I am thinking about buying

1. A 10-pack of gretchin, more random ebay boyz, and a 5-pack of nobz for the time being and then expanding with Meganobz, mek guns, trukks later.
(Can I run a nob with boss pole and PK with 2 units of boyz (1 each) and the other 3 nobs with Ghaz?)

Or, just buying the "start collecting" set to add 10 more boyz, 5 nobz, plus a Painboy and Deff Dread.

Thanks again! -Justin


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And would I be making a mistake by not taking any gretchin? (SC box does not contain any...)

Take a quick look at the Dakka swap shop, you can find some good deal in there as well.

Ork players:

Are grots actually worth taking? They strike me as pretty useless.

 Traditio wrote:
Ork players:

Are grots actually worth taking? They strike me as pretty useless.

Kind of, they are a wicked cheap objective holder, just don't expect them to do a damned thing.

I like them; they're super-cheap and I use them to screen slugga boyz mobs on the way forward – opponent has to either waste shots killing grots, or have the sluggas receive a cover save. Have heard of people using them to sit on objectives, often out of LoS of anyone due to being so short. I also bung a small mob with my Shokk Attack Gun to give him some spare wounds, but in the couple of games I've used him so far he's done something stupi to himself first turn, so that's kind of moot for me at the moment.

Plus, the models are great and really nice to paint.


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 Traditio wrote:
Ork players:

Are grots actually worth taking? They strike me as pretty useless.

They very rarely actively do anything useful, but if someone's killing 3pt grots, that's something more useful they aren't killing, is the way I see it.

From a background perspective, I take a bunch because what, are bad moons gonna carry their own stuff?

 Traditio wrote:
Ork players:

Are grots actually worth taking? They strike me as pretty useless.

They are deffenetly worth buying since they are only 13 euro at full retail price.
Mek guns are 36 euro and most players like to have 3+ of them.. So scratch building them and using the grots is not a bad deal.

As the grots unit they are slightly overpriced point wise my guess would be 1/3th But they are still usefull and those 10 points don't really matter that much.
This is the kind of unit most opponents will not want to spend too much fire power at while they do enjoy great cover and give some decent board controll.




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Juddhammer wrote:
Alright guys, I am sorry to do a mass "Thank you" but that's a lot to digest and respond to! That's cool though, so a definite thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

After all the responses, I am thinking about buying

1. A 10-pack of gretchin, more random ebay boyz, and a 5-pack of nobz for the time being and then expanding with Meganobz, mek guns, trukks later.
(Can I run a nob with boss pole and PK with 2 units of boyz (1 each) and the other 3 nobs with Ghaz?)

Or, just buying the "start collecting" set to add 10 more boyz, 5 nobz, plus a Painboy and Deff Dread.

Thanks again! -Justin


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And would I be making a mistake by not taking any gretchin? (SC box does not contain any...)

You don't need that pack of nobz unless you want all those cool bits that are in there.
Normal ork boyz already come with 1 nob per box.



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And I can't stress enough how usefull a deffkopta is. If you can get one a cheap on ebay you should really get one.