Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Type 1-The Hero HQ
This is your standard CC Monster or shooting mofo. A Daemon Prince, Sergeant Telion, Maugan-Ra, an Overlord with a Warscythe... They don't do much other than beat people up. And that's fine.

Type 2-The Commander
This is a rarer sort of HQ-they provide unit wide or small bubbles of buffs. Chaplains, Crypteks, and most support Psykers fall into this category. They provide strong buffs to limited amounts of units.

Type 3-The Strategist
This HQ, to my knowledge, doesn't really exist yet, short of certain Warlord Traits (such as the aptly named Strategic table). They provide army-wide buffs, often from even off the table, as befits someone who sees the grand scheme of things. While weaker buffs than a Tactician (or much more expensive for the same buffs) they do affect the entire army.

Why the heck did you put this in Proposed Rules, you dingus?
Because I'd like to see more Tacticians and Strategists, so I would appreciate help brainstorming what can fit into these categories for ALL armies.

There are a number of guys with army wide buffs.

Vulcan with his TLing melta.
Anyone who messes with reserve rolls.
Calgar with the extra doctrine.
If you want to count FOC swaps, any SM HQ on a bike.

I don't count Force Org swaps.

But that's part of my issue-you only named SM HQs, and named characters at that. I'd like generic HQs of all three types, for every army.

Edit: Thanks for the info, though!

So are you going to tell us what you're going to do with it after we've done the legwork?

(Most HQs hop categories, it's hard to give clear-cut answers)

My primary army is nids and second is Necrons. I have a hard time trying to think of any particular hqs that fit into these particular categories.

In terms of the nids, most HQs provide synapse which SORT OF? fufills the 3rd role? But not really. Even the bugs heaviest (should be anyway) hitter the swarmlord provides a aoe buff that kind of puts him in both category 1 and 2.

While Nids are all real flexible necrons are super rigid. Overlords and Crypteks kind of cover their full range there. Not sure where else to go with them fluff wise.

I'd be tempted to rename "tactician" to "commander" or something. It's more in-line with the warlord trait table, and things like Chaplains and Etherals don't really use tactics so much as general morale/spiritual support.

As for HQs and suggestions for HQs that would fit into those slots...

ELDAR
Hero: We have plenty.
Command: Our psykers probably fall into this role.
Strategists: Autarchs probably fall into this role, but I see room for improvement. I'd like to see an autarch be able to give orders in a fashion similar to a guard officer or purchase traits from the strategic table or otherwise have some sort of mechanic to represent the idea that he's on the path of command rather than the path of the take-all-the-weapons-you-want. His reserve manipulations are nice, but limited in utility.

DARK ELDAR
Hero: Everything but haemonculus
Command: Haemonculus (and Urien Rakarth)
Strategist: None. I'd love to see Lady Malys return and take this role with Labrynthine Cunning(?) being her automatic warlord trait. It's fitting for her and works well in a true kin army. Bringing back the Duke might also qualify for this. In general, I'm not sure dark eldar really need a different HQ to play up their tricky space elf raids. They really just need some sort of mechanic that supports it more. Like a revised PFP that rewards killing things and maybe a formation that lets you bring stuff in on turn 1. I also wouldn't mind some sort of "kabal tactic" or formation or something that lets me represent a Poisoned Tongue kabalite that grants an extra strategic warlord trait or something.

Harlequins: Don't technically have HQs.

Chaos Marines:
Heroes: They kind of have these. They're just not great at what they do.

Commanders: Apostles. Warp smiths. Again, not great at what they do. Sorcerers aren't bad though. Warp smiths are better at this with new formations.

Strategists: I like the idea of sorcerers or even cultists (both?) being able to purchase "rituals" as wargear. Rituals being a thing you can do in the psychic phase if you don't move, shoot, run, or charge that turn. So for instance, your sorcerer wouldn't be able to move that turn, but maybe he can gate of infinity a unit with his ritual or call down an orbital bombardment type effect representing a big spooky fireball or simply toss a buff on a unit across the table. That sort of thing. Also, you could maybe put Typhus in this slot.

Chaos Daemons: These guys are actually pretty well-rounded.
Heroes: Some heralds, all big daemons except maybe Fateweaver.
Commanders: Heralds (loci).
Strategists: Fateweaver and Epidemus.

Sisters:
Heroes: Canoness and Celestine
Commanders: Kind of sort of the Canoness with her Martyrdom ability. Priests. Maybe Uriah Jacobus.
Strategists: None come to mind. I could see the dialogus getting a weird boost and being able to deliver buffs to all units on the table in range of a laud hailer or even saying exorcism prayers that debuff daemons and psykers in range of laud hailers.

I could go on, but I'm tired, and it's late. Basically, there are plenty of heroes and a fair few commanders/tacticians. Strategists are odd in that they don't necessarily fit the HQs of a given faction. Big, army-wide effects don't necessarily fit every faction super well, and the ways they can be implemented are often covered by existing HQs and warlord traits (things like outflanking/infiltrating units or gaining bonuses to reserve rolls).

Here's a crazy idea for the moment. How would everyone feel about purchasing "strategies" either for an army or for a specific detachment? Strategies here being big, game-changing rules that reflect a given army's playstyle but don't necessarily tie in well to a specific unit. Some examples:

*Night Raid: Dark eldar can declare that night fighting is in play at the start of any turn. This continues for however many consecutive turns they paid for. Costs X points per turn.

*Burrowing Beasts: Trygons in your tyranids army may opt to automatically arrive from deepstrike reserves on turn 1. Costs X points per trygon. This allows the trygon prime tunnel thing to actually work well.

*Preliminary Bombardment: Astra Millitarum have lots of big guns, and they know how to use them. Spend X points for up to Y bombardments. These are resolved immediately before the first game turn begins. Each bombardment has such and such profile and is basically a large blast shooting attack.

*Emerge from the Warp: Chaos marines in your army may spend X points per unit to gain the deepstrike rule.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
So are you going to tell us what you're going to do with it after we've done the legwork?

(Most HQs hop categories, it's hard to give clear-cut answers)

Feth if I know. My own group is reasonably open to homebrew, so I could do some playtesting, but I'm not 100% sure.

But you do have a point-I should offer my own ideas. So, Nids! (Because damn do they need love.)

Hero
Hive Tyrants already work well here. Nothing needs adding or fixing.

Tactician
Technically, any synapse creature works here, as does maybe Baby-Mama Tervigon? But let's expand on this.

Gaunt Alpha
50 Points
Infantry (Character)
WS-5
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-2
I-5
A-3
Ld-8
Sv-5+

Wargear
-Scything Talons
-Devourer

Special Rules
-Bounding Leap
-Fleet
-Independent Character
-Move Through Cover
-Gaunt Alpha-Any unit of Termagaunts or Hormaguants joined by the Gaunt Alpha inceease their WS and BS by 1 so long as he is alive.

Options
-May take from the Basic BioWeapons, melee BioWeapons, Biomorphs, and Tyranid BioArtifcats (except for the Norn Crown)
-May take Thickened Carpace (+1 Armour Save)-10 Points

Strategist

Hive Fleet Node
120 Points
Infantry (Character)
WS-3
BS-5
S-5
T-6
W-4
I-2
A-2
Ld-10
Sv-3+

Wargear
-2 Flailing Pseudopods (S User AP 4 melee weapon)

Special Rules
-Eternal Warrior
-Feel No Pain
-Independent Character
-Psyker (Mastery Level 3-Knows all Powers of the Hive Mind automatically)
-Shadow In The Warp
-Slow and Purposeful
-Synapse Creature
-Lumbering-The Hive Fleet Node is not designed to move. As such, it moves only 3" in the movement phase, and only charges 1d6" instead of 2d6".
-Advanced Synaptic Control-The Hive Fleet Node's Synapse and Shadow In The Warp range is 24", rather than 12"
-Broadwave Synapse-Friendly models in the same army have +2 Leadership so long as the Hive Fleet Node is alive. This applies even if the Node is in reserves.
-Death Frenzy-If the Hive Fleet Node is slain, all friendly models in the same army gain Hatred, Rage, and Furious Charge until the end of their next turn.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Here's a crazy idea for the moment. How would everyone feel about purchasing "strategies" either for an army or for a specific detachment? Strategies here being big, game-changing rules that reflect a given army's playstyle but don't necessarily tie in well to a specific unit. Some examples:

*Night Raid: Dark eldar can declare that night fighting is in play at the start of any turn. This continues for however many consecutive turns they paid for. Costs X points per turn.

*Burrowing Beasts: Trygons in your tyranids army may opt to automatically arrive from deepstrike reserves on turn 1. Costs X points per trygon. This allows the trygon prime tunnel thing to actually work well.

*Preliminary Bombardment: Astra Millitarum have lots of big guns, and they know how to use them. Spend X points for up to Y bombardments. These are resolved immediately before the first game turn begins. Each bombardment has such and such profile and is basically a large blast shooting attack.

*Emerge from the Warp: Chaos marines in your army may spend X points per unit to gain the deepstrike rule.

I LOVE THIS! This is a great idea, Wyld!

Edit: Necron Strategist.

Prophet
120 Points
Infantry (Character)
WS-4
BS-4
S-4
T-4
W-2
I-2
A-2
Ld-10
Sv-3+

Wargear
-Staff of Light

Special Rules
-Independent Character
-Reanimation Protocols
-Simulated Foresight-A Prophet can modify any reserve roll (friendly or enemy) by +/-1. In addition, a Prophet lets you replace an additional Tactical Objective each turn, and lets you reroll any Mysterious Objective you discover.
-I don't know what to call this rule-A Prophet can grant a single unit each turn the Interceptor special rule (including pre-game, allowing you to start the game with a single unit having the Interceptor USR).

Options
-May take any item a Cryptek can take.

Fluff
A Prophet used to be a Necrontyr wise-man or shaman, an oracle of the future. Now, their Necron form has an expanded neural network, allowing them to run simulations constantly and effectively> This allows them to predict the future in far greater ways than their superstitions could before, as they use available information to run battle after battle in split-seconds, thus learning the easiest path to victory before the battle even begins.

Orks
Hero: Dat would be da boss ya grot.
Taktician: Wut da zog is dat?
Straterrrrr gest?: Sounds like umie talk or sumfin one of dem Blood Axe gitz would fink of.

Personally I would love to see a retinue or "Kommand Skwad" for a Warboss that gave more area or army wide benefits. Maybe something like a Kommando Boss who helps with sabotaging the enemy or objectives (as well as sneaking into the enemy flanks and laying down some hurt with a Spesshul Shoota aka Frag Kannon) , a Sneaky Git being an extra kunning grot who helps with outflanking or reserve manipulations (maybe lowing their reserves), a Yeller being an Ork priest who gets the Orks worked up in a religious frenzy, etc.

Tau

Hero
Commanders

Commander
Ethereals
Cadre Fireblades

Strategist

Earth Caste Prototype Division
105 Points
3 Earth Caste Prototype Workers, 1 Division Leader
Infantry (Division Leader is a Character)
WS-1
BS-4
S-3
T-3
W-1
I-2
A-1
Ld-7 (Division Leader is 8)
Sv-5+

Wargear
-Pulse Pistol (12" S5 AP5 Pistol)
-Earth Caste Toolset (CCW)

Special Rules
-Imrpoved Arms And Armour-For each Earth Caste Prototype Division Worker, roll on the following table. You may forgo additional rolls to instead give a +1 bonus to any other roll. (For instance, with a minimum squad of 4, you can do 4 rolls, or 1 roll at a +3 bonus.) These bonuses apply to your entire army, but each time a Worker is killed, one bonus is lost (determined by the opponent who killed the worker). You may, when rolling, select any lower result instead of the result you rolled.

1-Nothing
2-Nothing
3-Nothing
4-Ion Weapons gain +1 Strength
5-Burst Cannons and SMS gain +1 Strength
6-Rail Weapons gain one additional shot
7-Pulse Weapons gain +1 Strength
8-Ion Weapons gain -1 AP
9-Burst Cannons and SMS gain -1 AP
10-Pulse Weapons gain -1 AP
11-All armour saves improved by +1
12-Markerlights gain one additional shot

Options
-May include up to 5 additional Workers-25 Points Per Model
-May upgrade them to Combat Armour (4+ Save)-5 Points Per Model
-Any model may replace their Pulse Pistol with a Pulse Carbine-Free

For my own personal game that is intended for 40k, I divided HQ choices into 3 similar categories - Offence, Defence and Support. The primary differences between them is mainly how they can spend their Command Value on the Strategy Cards that the player can use in game; Offence Warlords typically have access to cards such as off board Artillery Strikes, Defence Warlords can deploy defensive structures such as Tarantula Turrets, and Support Warlords can access various auras, and even potentially call for reinforcements that aren't part of your army list.

I have no idea if such a system would fit well into 40k in its current iteration, the answer is probably "definitely not". My only advice if you do try it is to blur the lines between the three a little so the powers they can buy and use aren't completely limited to one type. I've done this by labelling each card I've made with what types can use it in each army, along with making a couple of generic options. Since making an entire card system for vanilla 40k is not a good idea at all, I'd maybe just have a list for each faction that they can pull from depending on what type they are.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
For my own personal game that is intended for 40k, I divided HQ choices into 3 similar categories - Offence, Defence and Support. The primary differences between them is mainly how they can spend their Command Value on the Strategy Cards that the player can use in game; Offence Warlords typically have access to cards such as off board Artillery Strikes, Defence Warlords can deploy defensive structures such as Tarantula Turrets, and Support Warlords can access various auras, and even potentially call for reinforcements that aren't part of your army list.

I have no idea if such a system would fit well into 40k in its current iteration, the answer is probably "definitely not". My only advice if you do try it is to blur the lines between the three a little so the powers they can buy and use aren't completely limited to one type. I've done this by labelling each card I've made with what types can use it in each army, along with making a couple of generic options. Since making an entire card system for vanilla 40k is not a good idea at all, I'd maybe just have a list for each faction that they can pull from depending on what type they are.

G.A

Thanks for the advice, GA. Not sure how to implement your ideas (that Strategy bit brought up earlier seems like a good way, though) but it's food for thought.

I don't really have an idea either on how you might use it (my game is completely different to vanilla 40k). I thought I'd just throw it into the think tank and run away quickly in case it exploded

 General Annoyance wrote:
I don't really have an idea either on how you might use it (my game is completely different to vanilla 40k). I thought I'd just throw it into the think tank and run away quickly in case it exploded

Sssssss... BOOM!

Alright, Strategies.

Generic

Rapid Insertion-You may roll for reserves turn one, with reserves coming in on a 4+.

Careful Insertion-You may modify any of your reserve rolls by -1, after all reserves have been rolled for.

Night Strike-You may add +1 to the Night Fight roll.

IG/AM slots quite neatly as is into those categories;

Hero -> Tank Commander/Pask, Commisar Lord
Commander -> All the independent 0-3 choices (priest, techpriest, arguably commisar)
Strategist -> CCS with various advisors

If the IG trait table was then restricted to 2,3 and 4 for Heroes, 1,4 and 5 for Commander, and 1,5 and 6 for strategist makes actually perfect sense and quite playable.

Alternatively just buy traits for points, but that's crazy talk.

Thanks to the veritas vitae, BA are actually in pretty good shape for HQs. CAD BA commanders can get three rolls on strategic traits, keep two, and still be a pretty mean beat stick.

That's why I love playing Ultramarines and Guard. Strategist HQs that provide buffs to the entire army.

The problem with your "strategist" role is that it is describing off-table HQs that would be running things from a command bunker somewhere instead of engaging in combat personally. The models you'd actually see on the table are the badass god of war types who lead through example and slaughter everything in their path. And trying to represent the "strategist" kind is essentially going to be paying ~100-150 points for some army-wide special rules and ~10-20 points for a weak model that never accomplishes anything impressive. Fluff-accurate, but hardly interesting or heroic. It's much better to represent strategy through army-wide rules like chapter tactics and save the HQ slot for combat badasses.

 Peregrine wrote:
The problem with your "strategist" role is that it is describing off-table HQs that would be running things from a command bunker somewhere instead of engaging in combat personally. The models you'd actually see on the table are the badass god of war types who lead through example and slaughter everything in their path. And trying to represent the "strategist" kind is essentially going to be paying ~100-150 points for some army-wide special rules and ~10-20 points for a weak model that never accomplishes anything impressive. Fluff-accurate, but hardly interesting or heroic. It's much better to represent strategy through army-wide rules like chapter tactics and save the HQ slot for combat badasses.

I can see Strategist being a supplementary role-so any given HQ falls into Hero or Commander and Strategist.

Three questions: Given that commanders buff certain units, would HQs that make a certain type of unit fit better into a CAD by making it a troops choice (like Zhadsnark) be considered a commander for buffing that type of unit or a strategist for providing an army wide benefit? Also, certain formations and warlord traits change the purpose of HQs. To give some more ork-related examples, if you have a SAG big mek as your HQ and roll the trait that lets him declare Waaaagh! it gives a ranged combat-focused unit a way to buff the entire army. And the flash turns Badrukk into a commander by having him give the dakkaguns of the flash gits master-crafted. Does that make the HQs that do that sufficiently changed for the purposes of this thread? Lastly what role is the ork mekboy (the 15 pt one, not the big mek) fit into?

Unless you have say a captain

And then you choose which profile you take. Ie hero boost melle and open up some fancy wargear.

Strategy gives you some of the buffs...reserves, deep strike etc

Tactical adds abilities for small.units.

A chapter master unlocks higher buffs, a chaplain etc may gain own sets.

In effect you could tripple hq options... Have a hero chaplain beat stick, or one who grants say re rolling failed tests etc. You can make them more tailored. Maybe too much....