Calexit

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**TheMeanDM**

So folks never thought that Britain would leave the EU.

Do people think that it is actually feasible for California to leave the United States?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-aftermath-updates-trail-after-donald-trump-elected-president-1478747229-htmlstory.html

**kronk**

Just a bunch of butt-hurts, similar to the butt-hurts in Texas that said the same gak when Obama was elected.

Don't worry. Hippies are horrible at getting gak done. When you have enough to start action, someone breaks out a hacky-sack and some joints.

**Prestor Jon**

California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

**oldzoggy**

Sure why not there are smaller countries in europe. Just be ready to have some horrible trade negotiations with the US and all sorts of land locked immigration issues.

**Nostromodamus**

I think the San Andreas fault will force California to secede at some point.

**Skinnereal**

They might be the 6th biggest economy in the world, but could they go alone?

**kronk**

Nostromodamus wrote:
I think the San Andreas fault will force California to secede at some point.

It's just moving North, not West towards the Pacific ocean.

http://www.livescience.com/32140-will-california-ever-fall-into-the-ocean.html

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skinnereal wrote:
They might be the 6th biggest economy in the world, but could they go alone?

No. They are not self sufficient with their current spending.

**djones520**

Nostromodamus wrote:
I think the San Andreas fault will force California to secede at some point.

No. It will just make them more reliant on the rest of the nation.

**Laughing Man**

oldzoggy wrote:
Sure why not there are smaller countries in europe. Just be ready to have some horrible trade negotiations with the US and all sorts of land locked immigration issues.

...California is a coastal state.

**whembly**

Californians may wanna rethink that...

For a state with strict gun control and the like... it won't be pretty for them if Civil War Part Deux happens.

**malamis**

A nice rundown of what is actually plausible

**Vaktathi**

TheMeanDM wrote:
So folks never thought that Britain would leave the EU.

Do people think that it is actually feasible for California to leave the United States?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-aftermath-updates-trail-after-donald-trump-elected-president-1478747229-htmlstory.html

Could CA make a decent go of it, sure. Theyre a huge internationalized economy that drives a tremendous amount of growth, research, and agriculture. CA could absolutely make it on their own.

As someone who lived in California most of their life, will CA do it? No. Would it be a good idea? No. Can they legally secede? No. Are anything more than a tiny handful of people in CA even paying attention to such talk? No. Is this something anyone is considering as more than a momentary post election daydream? No.

**TheCustomLime**

Plus with a severe drought that is showing no signs of letting up I don't think California can really afford to tell the USA to go feth themselves. Especially since we need water from the Colorado River.

**agnosto**

malamis wrote:
A nice rundown of what is actually plausible

Cool. So financially it's as plausible for California as it is for Texas. An independent California would completely hose the US as so much trade flows through California; all that shipping would have to shift North to Oregon or Washington.

Hmm, not going to happen but an interesting scenario to think about.

**Frazzled**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Plus with a severe drought that is showing no signs of letting up I don't think California can really afford to tell the USA to go feth themselves. Especially since we need water from the Colorado River.

That is a brilliantly astute point.

Also you would be an easy target for a country just south of you.

**Desubot**

kronk wrote:
Just a bunch of butt-hurts, similar to the butt-hurts in Texas that said the same gak when Obama was elected.

Don't worry. Hippies are horrible at getting gak done. When you have enough to start action, someone breaks out a hacky-sack and some joints.

Now that cali has legalized pot there is no way my state will get anything done

**whembly**

Desubot wrote:
kronk wrote:
Just a bunch of butt-hurts, similar to the butt-hurts in Texas that said the same gak when Obama was elected.

Don't worry. Hippies are horrible at getting gak done. When you have enough to start action, someone breaks out a hacky-sack and some joints.

Now that cali has legalized pot there is no way my state will get anything done

...and that's a bad thing now?

**Vaktathi**

Legalizing pot doesnt seem to have paralyzed other states

**SickSix**

We can only hope!

**Co'tor Shas**

Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

AFAIK, like a lot of the big rich states (CA, NY, Ect), it it a net contributor of tax dollars, and one of the least dependent states. It tends to be the poorer states that take more then they give (Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee).

It would still be a horrible idea for other reasons, but much like Texas, the economics aren't the main issue.

**DarkTraveler777**

Vaktathi wrote:
As someone who lived in California most of their life, will CA do it? No. Would it be a good idea? No. Can they legally secede? No. Are anything more than a tiny handful of people in CA even paying attention to such talk? No. Is this something anyone is considering as more than a momentary post election daydream? No.

As someone living in California his whole life, I agree with Vaktathi's assessment. It isn't going to happen.

SickSix wrote:
We can only hope!

Haha... okay guy from Florida.

**sirlynchmob**

Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

CA could succeed at it, if they really wanted it. I have no idea where you got that weird idea from.

by simply removing the federal tax from their people, they could raise their state tax and easily be in the black. I'm pretty sure they're already in the black. Then rent the land for military bases back to the us government and that's another source of income for the state and a small tariff for all goods that pass through the state to the US and they might even be able to do away with the state tax.

couldn't survive without federal funds? LOL

some facts for you:
http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3305

The Budget Situation Through 2016–17: Decidedly Positive. The state budget is better prepared for an economic downturn than it has been at any point in decades. In 2015–16, we project that the state’s “Big Three” General Fund revenues—principally the personal income tax—will exceed June 2015 budget assumptions by $3.6 billion, with most of that gain to be deposited into the Proposition 2 rainy day fund. In 2016–17, we project that revenues will exceed spending under current policies, resulting in even further improvement in the state’s fiscal situation. Assuming no new budget commitments are made, we estimate 2016–17 would end with reserves of $11.5 billion. Of this total, the Legislature would have control over $4.3 billion in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s traditional budget reserve, with the rest of the reserves held for future budget emergencies by Proposition 2.

**kronk**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

CA could succeed at it, if they really wanted it. I have no idea where you got that weird idea from.

by simply removing the federal tax from their people, they could raise their state tax and easily be in the black. I'm pretty sure they're already in the black. Then rent the land for military bases back to the us government and that's another source of income for the state and a small tariff for all goods that pass through the state to the US and they might even be able to do away with the state tax.

couldn't survive without federal funds? LOL

some facts for you:
http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3305

The Budget Situation Through 2016–17: Decidedly Positive. The state budget is better prepared for an economic downturn than it has been at any point in decades. In 2015–16, we project that the state’s “Big Three” General Fund revenues—principally the personal income tax—will exceed June 2015 budget assumptions by $3.6 billion, with most of that gain to be deposited into the Proposition 2 rainy day fund. In 2016–17, we project that revenues will exceed spending under current policies, resulting in even further improvement in the state’s fiscal situation. Assuming no new budget commitments are made, we estimate 2016–17 would end with reserves of $11.5 billion. Of this total, the Legislature would have control over $4.3 billion in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s traditional budget reserve, with the rest of the reserves held for future budget emergencies by Proposition 2.

Will the American companies HQ'd there stay? The manufacturing? The licensed Doctors, lawyers, and other professionals? Probably not. Bye-bye tax revenue and services.

Where will they get their water supply? They're currently taking it from 5-6 other states. Think that will continue? Nope.

Build desalination plants? Good idea. See you in 15 years when you build 2 of the 15 you need.

Listen, it's a cute day dream exercise. I've heard it all when I was in Texas. This is no different.

**sirlynchmob**

kronk wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

CA could succeed at it, if they really wanted it. I have no idea where you got that weird idea from.

by simply removing the federal tax from their people, they could raise their state tax and easily be in the black. I'm pretty sure they're already in the black. Then rent the land for military bases back to the us government and that's another source of income for the state and a small tariff for all goods that pass through the state to the US and they might even be able to do away with the state tax.

couldn't survive without federal funds? LOL

some facts for you:
http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3305

The Budget Situation Through 2016–17: Decidedly Positive. The state budget is better prepared for an economic downturn than it has been at any point in decades. In 2015–16, we project that the state’s “Big Three” General Fund revenues—principally the personal income tax—will exceed June 2015 budget assumptions by $3.6 billion, with most of that gain to be deposited into the Proposition 2 rainy day fund. In 2016–17, we project that revenues will exceed spending under current policies, resulting in even further improvement in the state’s fiscal situation. Assuming no new budget commitments are made, we estimate 2016–17 would end with reserves of $11.5 billion. Of this total, the Legislature would have control over $4.3 billion in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s traditional budget reserve, with the rest of the reserves held for future budget emergencies by Proposition 2.

Will the American companies HQ'd there stay? The manufacturing? The licensed Doctors, lawyers, and other professionals? Probably not. Bye-bye tax revenue and services.

Where will they get their water supply? They're currently taking it from 5-6 other states. Think that will continue? Nope.

Build desalination plants? Good idea. See you in 15 years when you build 2 of the 15 you need.

Listen, it's a cute day dream exercise. I've heard it all when I was in Texas. This is no different.

lets see, companies think with their bottom line, and not having to pay federal tax would get the CEO more money, so there's a good chance they'll stay. The agriculture industry wouldn't go anywhere.

Why would the doctors and professionals leave? they'd still be needed, they'd still make good money by staying.

the water deal could be included as a package deal to allow the military to continue to use it's bases.

why not build all 15 at once?

Yes it's a fun thought experiment, but cali would do magnitudes better than texas would. And they would by no means struggle economically, It would more likely be the reverse and the US would suffer from the loss of federal income from cali.

**whembly**

There's no point. The rest of the country won't allow CA to leave.

**Frazzled**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

CA could succeed at it, if they really wanted it. I have no idea where you got that weird idea from.

by simply removing the federal tax from their people, they could raise their state tax and easily be in the black. I'm pretty sure they're already in the black. Then rent the land for military bases back to the us government and that's another source of income for the state and a small tariff for all goods that pass through the state to the US and they might even be able to do away with the state tax.

couldn't survive without federal funds? LOL

some facts for you:
http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3305

The Budget Situation Through 2016–17: Decidedly Positive. The state budget is better prepared for an economic downturn than it has been at any point in decades. In 2015–16, we project that the state’s “Big Three” General Fund revenues—principally the personal income tax—will exceed June 2015 budget assumptions by $3.6 billion, with most of that gain to be deposited into the Proposition 2 rainy day fund. In 2016–17, we project that revenues will exceed spending under current policies, resulting in even further improvement in the state’s fiscal situation. Assuming no new budget commitments are made, we estimate 2016–17 would end with reserves of $11.5 billion. Of this total, the Legislature would have control over $4.3 billion in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s traditional budget reserve, with the rest of the reserves held for future budget emergencies by Proposition 2.

Actually if you tried to secede we would cut off your water and your power and you would be done.

**kronk**

I forgot about electricity. Lots of wind and solar out in the desert areas, but enough to cover the state? Do I recall there being rolling black outs in the early 2000s?

**Seaward**

Frazzled wrote:
Actually if you tried to secede we would cut off your water and your power and you would be done.

Or just have a platoon of Marines at Twentynine Palms take the state over. Cali militias won't stand much chance, having to bankrupt themselves paying a NICS check fee when they want ammo, and dealing with the bullet button plus and whatnot.

**sirlynchmob**

Frazzled wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
California couldn't survive without federal funds and nobody who looked at secession with any seriousness would be able to deny that economic fact.

CA could succeed at it, if they really wanted it. I have no idea where you got that weird idea from.

by simply removing the federal tax from their people, they could raise their state tax and easily be in the black. I'm pretty sure they're already in the black. Then rent the land for military bases back to the us government and that's another source of income for the state and a small tariff for all goods that pass through the state to the US and they might even be able to do away with the state tax.

couldn't survive without federal funds? LOL

some facts for you:
http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3305

The Budget Situation Through 2016–17: Decidedly Positive. The state budget is better prepared for an economic downturn than it has been at any point in decades. In 2015–16, we project that the state’s “Big Three” General Fund revenues—principally the personal income tax—will exceed June 2015 budget assumptions by $3.6 billion, with most of that gain to be deposited into the Proposition 2 rainy day fund. In 2016–17, we project that revenues will exceed spending under current policies, resulting in even further improvement in the state’s fiscal situation. Assuming no new budget commitments are made, we estimate 2016–17 would end with reserves of $11.5 billion. Of this total, the Legislature would have control over $4.3 billion in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s traditional budget reserve, with the rest of the reserves held for future budget emergencies by Proposition 2.

Actually if you tried to secede we would cut off your water and your power and you would be done.

or if they just claimed all the military bases, the could easily invade and take arizona, nevada, and oregon

the water could be it's only issue, but they'd have the money to buy it, and the US would be in a recession from cali leaving they'd gladly sell it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:
I forgot about electricity. Lots of wind and solar out in the desert areas, but enough to cover the state? Do I recall there being rolling black outs in the early 2000s?

yes 16 years ago that was a problem because of the shady stuff enron was doing.

**Frazzled**

kronk wrote:
I forgot about electricity. Lots of wind and solar out in the desert areas, but enough to cover the state? Do I recall there being rolling black outs in the early 2000s?

California is an energy importer in a big way. Cut off the fertilizer and they are a massive food importer as well.

or if they just claimed all the military bases, the could easily invade and take arizona, nevada, and oregon

As noted, the US troops on those bases might disagree. I seem to remember some time where rebels fired on a US base before...

the water could be it's only issue, but they'd have the money to buy it, and the US would be in a recession from cali leaving they'd gladly sell it.

Why would the US sell it? In history regions rebelling usually don't have very good relations with the former nation.

EDIT: I should note I argue with Texas secess all the time, lets play. Next I remind you that you owe the US trillions. Please pay up.