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Not sure if it's already been talked about, but my searches haven't brought anything up except vagueness.

As the title suggests: does the KFF of an UNEMBARKED big mek give a 5++ to the boyz inside an open topped transport that is attacked by a flamer weapon?

My heart wants to say yes because Orks need some kind protection and it would make some since for it being a RAI type deal, but my brain says no because the no escape rule just says automatic hits which doesn't define if it's technically from a shooting attack or not to trigger the KFF saving it.
As far as i can tell, the hits caused by no escape are caused by the rule itself (like hits from the mob rule), and thus don't count as shooting attacks.
What do you all think?

I would say yes since it is a shooting attack from the flamer that caused it. That's just my thought though.

I think the Draft FAQ would stop the KFF from affecting Boyz inside a vehicle the same way it stops effects from units inside a vehicle affecting things outside the vehicle.

If you're not playing by the Draft FAQ, however, I think it would work. The No Escape clause comes from shooting the flamer, so would be the shooting attack causing it. Note, however, they have the KFF now only working on a transport carrying the unit and not something on the other side of the vehicle's walls, so somebody could argue that as a precedent for not being able to affect those inside. Combined with the Draft FAQ, it's safest to say that the KFF doesn't work for the unit inside; you'd need to have the model with it embarked in the vehicle with them.

I think maybe a single 5++ should be taken to protect the vehicle, and if its stopped their then nobody inside gets hurt. Good combination of broken stupid rules from GW

Unfortunately that's not RAW, but it is a very nice house rule for dealing with it.

SemperMortis wrote:
I think maybe a single 5++ should be taken to protect the vehicle, and if its stopped their then nobody inside gets hurt. Good combination of broken stupid rules from GW

That would actually be cool, lol. Since the no escape.rule says it happens 'in addition to' the regular effects if.the weapon, it could be argued that if you save the initial shot, you negate ALL effects of the eeapon, including the no escape..

Voidraven5829 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I think maybe a single 5++ should be taken to protect the vehicle, and if its stopped their then nobody inside gets hurt. Good combination of broken stupid rules from GW

That would actually be cool, lol. Since the no escape.rule says it happens 'in addition to' the regular effects if.the weapon, it could be argued that if you save the initial shot, you negate ALL effects of the eeapon, including the no escape..

Realistically the No-escape rule was added to give the final FU to orks. How many other factions are afraid of Flamers in OT Transports? And of those, who has it worse, 6+ Boyz or their units?

Dark eldar have it prrtty bad from flamers. And they don't even have to option to buy better armor.

Voidraven5829 wrote:
Dark eldar have it prrtty bad from flamers. And they don't even have to option to buy better armor.

True, but they don't rely on transports in their armies Those are just extra gun platforms for them.

SemperMortis wrote:

Voidraven5829 wrote:
Dark eldar have it prrtty bad from flamers. And they don't even have to option to buy better armor.

True, but they don't rely on transports in their armies Those are just extra gun platforms for them.

But Orks can take a few points and make their Transports not Open-Topped. I know that defeats half the point of them, but the option still exists. Dark Eldar do not have this as an option.

So, not an FU to Orks, just an FU to Dark Eldar.

It also really hurts Genestealer Cults when they have people in a truck. With only 5+ Armor they don't get any save against most flamers either.

I am pretty aure that orks inside the trukk don't get the save from the independant KFF because how do you measure from one model to a unit that is not on the board.

 Longshadow7 wrote:
I am pretty aure that orks inside the trukk don't get the save from the independant KFF because how do you measure from one model to a unit that is not on the board.

Please see 'Embarking', last sentence of the first paragraph (pg. 80, main rulebook).